Quote:
Interesting. I wouldn't say it sucks because that would be boorish, but its certainly not how I'd build an Emp. |
Originally Posted by _Force_
This is basically what I have planned for my Emp/Fire Defender come I21.
All that needs to be fixed is getting Fire Blast for defenders into Mids. Which, if you look at the power selections from Ice Blast you can easily enough get an idea of what powers I'll be choosing from Fire Blast in the corresponding power selections. Blast, Ball, Blaze, Inferno, Aim. Silas this should be easy enough for you to switch into Sonic and take a look at the differences between yours and mine. It's perfect for me and what I want it to do. Specifically, melt faces while still being yayanEmpath and being as effective as possible with both. As always with any build not everyone is going to agree everything that goes into a build. Some people like PBU, some people want Ranged Def, some people want Veng, everyone wants somethin' different if they really think about it. This however is specifically geared towards me and my play-style and what I want. So to each his own, this is just how Force be doin' it.  |
Some things I'd do differently:
- Recovery Aura is way underslotted. Anytime you exemplar below 45 it'll take ages to recharge. It's also taken way later than I would. Both auras are ASAP powers for me. Even if you never exemplar the slotting is poor.
- Panaceas in Regen Aura and AB, this set gives much less recharge enhancement than other sets. Only compensated for at 45+ with the Alpha. My preference is to slot them for max recharge and then have the Alpha on top of that. You'd get more bang for your buck enhancing the powers properly and then getting recharge rather than skipping straight to massive recharge.
- Lots of slots and purple sets invested in powers that are of minimal to no use. I refer to Boxing and Web Envelope, not sure where you'll get the 5th purple set for your Emp/Fire, but I certainly hope its not Armageddons in Inferno or something, haha. I did set mules myself for powers I'll almost never use, but its a smaller slot investment and for greater returns.
- No Leadership pool. As you say, a matter of personal preference. I wouldn't skip them on a Defender given their awesome buff mods and the fact that they buff you as well. Even if they didn't buff the team Assault and Maneuvers would be awesome, the fact that they do makes them a no-brainer for me.
- Singleslotted Hasten. Again, when exemplared it'll have really poor recharge enhancement.
You've got a fair chunk more recharge but its not helping you as much as it could due to how you've slotted your powers. The build loses a lot on the support side (IMO) but doesn't gain significant offensive or defensive benefit for it.
I would argue that the Empathy/team support side is not as effective as it could be. Key Empathy powers underslotted, taken later on, lack of Leadership. You've got a crapload of recharge, which is great, but it largely serves to compensate for poor slotting in your key powers. Which is a shame, given the investment in the build.
You've got about 25% more global recharge than me. High recharge gives diminished returns as you go. To compare the numbers I've swapped my build to t4 Spiritual Core.
For that extra 25% recharge, your AB recharges 2.1 seconds faster than mine (largely negligible since both are way past perma and impossible to realistically maintain on more than 1 person), Regen Aura recharges 3.5 seconds faster than mine, Fortitude recharges half a second faster and Recovery Aura recharges 5.3 seconds slower.
These differences are also only the case when the Alphas are selected. Without Alpha in the equation the powers are recharging in about the same amount of time. So that extra global recharge is serving almost entirely just to stay even.
I don't think such marginal benefits are worth underslotting core powers and dropping the Leadership pool entirely. To each their own.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silas
Aneko, Cool builds. Very interesting indeed, pretty neat to see a build softcapped to s/l and ranged. I would do a couple things differently, but its a very interesting proof of concept build.
The second one I like a lot more, mainly because you've taken Hasten, have Fortitude slotted for defense and a decent chunk more recharge without the build becoming way more expensive. Very solid build. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stray Kitten
This build has merit, but the recharge makes me die a little inside. That said, softcapped S/L/E and ranged is impressive in and of it's own right. Nice job.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stray Kitten
Still some oddities that I wouldn't have done, but stat-wise it's much more in line with something I would personally play.
|
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Just for kicks, I went ahead and make a concept build aiming for softcapped S/L, Power Build Up, Leadership and decent recharge. It could still use some work but just goes to show it's possible to have all of the above in a build. (Please disregard the order of power selection).
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1430;684;1368;HEX;| |78DA6593CB7212411486BB1930864B0821E47EE39290903081246A952E2C4D62951| |A220955AE8C38810950C6810A6369763E80AE5C7889CFA255BAF119D4852FE0E50D| |C899F337842A28E8AFE79C7FFE73BA9BCEBDDCF20BF1EAA690039BC746B359DC328| |F4CAB6C9E787246A556F26DD6AD92D9B0E7B69F35FA84109176BA78FBF9D1914E51| |C3AE9E4E75A2FB865531CB7AA16ED54AC55BB66D949E86EE5A55F3C4B46CBD3DF1E| |6EBF563BDD030CD7290A73BA6412F37ABB546809FEFD42A55BB6655FCED6C831E86| |B61BB5929EAFBFA03239A3699B27A763D4518A7E8F5C427D5A6E715F0A9115AE3C9| |063B87781078C1FDDF27784A4B8F41EF8C0B8FC1138631C905C2AB984BB17EE5EB8| |FBE1EE87FB4F926B4AAEADB89CD0401AD01983AB408611A76DF5B07D4B7A6E10DC9| |A18FEC5A92734F6C149F439EBCC8AC714EA57A1FE04B76750C8A7EAF922DCC2D075| |F8B4B9F4893461B174C628D218501E8165B675EA059547708D8B0FAF334636802B8| |CB1AB8C431A4390BB426F3934F506805F8CDA0EAB4585114A0121CA4490F144D0ED| |9C17F001414634000C30C2F4D6280ACA512C268AC594681C579D8FE370E2389C040| |E2781C349E07086C96852753E89F271F8C5E12749300D81365D20C4C44C1ED803F6| |196552CFAABAB3F05E40F924CA27513E89F2BF5DCE4BB08D7DE6D0CA17E02B23FD8| |DA151F979B53DF36B1ADB8E4AA7A58519463ACE588D01738CEF245C54DBB38875A8| |237793DF32FC5CCB58EFCA35FC29D28A2324D1D559E990ACCEF059452993514D67B| |009596C42169B90C5064DB93BF74913D08D413701DD0474A90B1D7DE923323D916C| |4F64BD27B2D113D9E989EC3A11ACAA9577772EB0909CED1FECDCD1D61F2F656577F| |6DF4544CA7BD2B964A987BC317F7BB4FFBBB5AFF90EA47015F6C234B63BF03A79CC| |0FBAE646D7FCB06B7E0E1198E555| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silas
Interesting. I wouldn't say it sucks because that would be boorish, but its certainly not how I'd build an Emp.
Some things I'd do differently:
You've got a fair chunk more recharge but its not helping you as much as it could due to how you've slotted your powers. The build loses a lot on the support side (IMO) but doesn't gain significant offensive or defensive benefit for it. I would argue that the Empathy/team support side is not as effective as it could be. Key Empathy powers underslotted, taken later on, lack of Leadership. You've got a crapload of recharge, which is great, but it largely serves to compensate for poor slotting in your key powers. Which is a shame, given the investment in the build. You've got about 25% more global recharge than me. High recharge gives diminished returns as you go. To compare the numbers I've swapped my build to t4 Spiritual Core. For that extra 25% recharge, your AB recharges 2.1 seconds faster than mine (largely negligible since both are way past perma and impossible to realistically maintain on more than 1 person), Regen Aura recharges 3.5 seconds faster than mine, Fortitude recharges half a second faster and Recovery Aura recharges 5.3 seconds slower. These differences are also only the case when the Alphas are selected. Without Alpha in the equation the powers are recharging in about the same amount of time. So that extra global recharge is serving almost entirely just to stay even. I don't think such marginal benefits are worth underslotting core powers and dropping the Leadership pool entirely. To each their own. |
- If you honestly need to rely on Recovery Aura than you've got more problems of your own and should work on fixing your own build before relying on the Emp to save your endurance constantly.
- At level 1, this build will still have 87.5% global recharge which is already the level recharge as most folks final builds. At level 17 that bumps up to 117.5%, at level 32 it goes up to 124, level 42 - max recharge. I'd hardly call that horrible when exempt, and while I haven't crunched those numbers, I'm still perfectly happy with the recharge of hasten at 17. Oh no so hasten isn't perma if I ex down to low levels, not so horrible.
- Few tweaks to get Doc Wounds in AB/RA, threw 3 Golgi in Aura so dropped down to 203.8% rech, I appreciate the note. And as an afterthought I did toss the extra two slots into hasten although as I said above, it wasn't an issue before.
- While I many not often use Webnade or Inferno, I still WILL be using them on occasion, perhaps only solo but I'll still be using them.
- Leadership, while I'd like to take Veng, I like to think that taking veng on my Emp is just asking for people to die. And if people are dying then I'm not doing my job. So if I did pick up Veng, that would be my only set mule power 90% of the time. It does have other benefits however it's not in my current build, that may change in the future.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
Quote:
I'm fairly confident that the reason Silas suggested that Recovery Aura should be slotted further wasn't because his own build is dependent on it. As I'm sure you're aware, Recovery Aura is a very strong team buff and as such, deserves to be up as often as possible.
|
Originally Posted by _Force_
- If you honestly need to rely on Recovery Aura than you've got more problems of your own and should work on fixing your own build before relying on the Emp to save your endurance constantly.
|
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
A couple odd questions that this post brought up...
Quote:
So you intend on using brawl and boxing?|
Originally Posted by _Force_
- I don't actually have any set mules on this build, and while I many not often use Webnade or Inferno, I still WILL be using them on occasion, perhaps only solo but I'll still be using them.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Force_
- Leadership, while I'd like to take Veng, I like to think that taking veng on my Emp is just asking for people to die. And if people are dying then I'm not doing my job. So if I did pick up Veng, that would be my only set mule power 90% of the time. It does have other benefits however it's not in my current build, that may change in the future.
|
Also, I didn't catch this before, but no Rain of Fire makes me sad.
Quote:
That is what I was addressing.|
Originally Posted by Amygdala
I'm fairly confident that the reason Silas suggested that Recovery Aura should be slotted further wasn't because his own build is dependent on it.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stray Kitten
A couple odd questions that this post brought up...
So you intend on using brawl and boxing? Shouldn't Resurrect be viewed in the same manner then? Also, I didn't catch this before, but no Rain of Fire makes me sad. |
Oh yeah, boxing and brawl... woops
I'm also rather sad about the no RoF, but unless it's for solo purposes most mobs seem to be dead in just a couple seconds on a good team anyway so I'd just assume get the boom over the rain. I actually am working on an alternate built that includes Leadership, as well as slightly addressing the one slotted hasten even though I don't see it as much a concern. But only because Silas made me think about it more...
Oh and to address your resurrect question.
No.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
A few revisions based on feedback. Still probably won't be going to Leadership route, however I dolled it up and posted it anyway for anyone who was interested.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1431;691;1382;HEX;| |78DA6593D952134114867BB210098110202C1248485803193205EA851756B128580| |4037829C6813490AA981987A14AEE7C04D772419FC552CB3750CB0B5FC1E50DE2C9| |F99B38565295F93AFFFCFD9FEED3E9C2C39588108FAE09AD6BB96A1E1F9756E481A| |C95A513DA34DD13C7AC8A9010227EAE96964E0E0EF4D5FBB6E91E9D0E35D56DB376| |28CBFAFABE2C2D518A1B5BAF1D4947D65CFD7C102E5A5655DFB1A52CF7F0F0B6AC4| |ADB725CD3AD58B5284B1BD2A4B0E3A38A1D39FF6D576A87C3AB76655F5FB61CE7C4| |762DA75430A94C81AA48E774901697A5EFAE4FA84F3D20127E210C9119618C8F024| |9C6648AF1DE6B7F499812BE57C06B46E00D237CC6B843764DD935A4B721BD0DE93D| |881D4491BB64F72BBB1FF600EC1760EF86AF1BB33E903DA8ECC1051FFB1619E14B8| |C9ECB8CBE2B8C7BF40CC12E428DBD1BA24452BB92DA67593249EA8014EC086B0D29| |D2017432BABA8008A32FCEC85070A786A0CEAB84801013A4455578F4072F2146520| |CB6600CE1098427109E427826CA9842782FCDEA4590D67BE66BFCC8BC63F4D19B38| |DEF8E27833FA16C0D434190650501BC00673C03ED98654F38636D87CB1006C32C66| |E31C68B8CCF641F56F6E11C6F6654674CCE33A6F28C1983B147CF11B5F711142C93| |94540949144CA160EABF826328D84F2B4FAB8EA6B1994F9430A112265651FC3A8AD| |F60CCAD3172EB0C9BFE24D3AAD9D368F60C9A3D836667D1EC2C9A9D45118B66CDAA| |F39F7DC2D2DC63E02923F78C31FF9C61BC603CA0593A66F9F52FBCF9F9EFC03786F| |195F1919E79751E791C9881034B049A37CB2F8A84B4E8DF02B619833B8C8D7F3EFA| |EFF2468B81E62D135A9D3E62B36142997A7B77F352D58BE146618C773D63D333DEF| |38C7FD2585387A0E5F8187F79A569967E7BA59B5AE3E2FFF14A2976E5BD0BE75566| |5B14A345596C51165A942DBA1C865AF15F3F37DA7B| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
Quote:
Ah, you were referring to the general 'you'? I misunderstood. |
Originally Posted by _Force_
That is what I was addressing.
|
Regardless, there are situations where even builds that are sound Endurance wise can run into issues in the face of Endurance draining mobs, such as Hamidon, Freakshow, enemies on the iTrials, etc. This is where Recovery Aura really shines. The fact that people may derive benefit from it doesn't automatically indicate that their build needs fixing.
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
Quote:
Not to pick nits. But....*pick pick pick* sappers, hamidon, Lord Recluse, IDF, Freakshow all have pretty harsh end drain.
|
Originally Posted by _Force_
- If you honestly need to rely on Recovery Aura than you've got more problems of your own and should work on fixing your own build before relying on the Emp to save your endurance constantly.
|
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Quote:
To address your points:|
Originally Posted by _Force_
- If you honestly need to rely on Recovery Aura than you've got more problems of your own and should work on fixing your own build before relying on the Emp to save your endurance constantly.
- At level 1, this build will still have 87.5% global recharge which is already the level recharge as most folks final builds. At level 17 that bumps up to 117.5%, at level 32 it goes up to 124, level 42 - max recharge. I'd hardly call that horrible when exempt, and while I haven't crunched those numbers, I'm still perfectly happy with the recharge of hasten at 17. Oh no so hasten isn't perma if I ex down to low levels, not so horrible. - Few tweaks to get Doc Wounds in AB/RA, threw 3 Golgi in Aura so dropped down to 203.8% rech, I appreciate the note. And as an afterthought I did toss the extra two slots into hasten although as I said above, it wasn't an issue before. - While I many not often use Webnade or Inferno, I still WILL be using them on occasion, perhaps only solo but I'll still be using them. - Leadership, while I'd like to take Veng, I like to think that taking veng on my Emp is just asking for people to die. And if people are dying then I'm not doing my job. So if I did pick up Veng, that would be my only set mule power 90% of the time. It does have other benefits however it's not in my current build, that may change in the future. |
- As others have said, the point of slotting Rec Aura properly is not to make my own build functional. Even if someones build is entirely endurance-solvent (so to speak) Rec Aura can let them spam all their high endurance powers at full bore. It also helps against the slew of mobs that sap endurance, as others have noted.
- Fair enough on the global recharge, at lower levels that should suffice to get your powers recharging pretty quickly.
- Yeah the second build looks a lot better to me. You've got much more powerful recharge on AB/Reg Aura as well as boatloads of global recharge.
- re:Webnade/Inferno, I can't hate on those set mules too much. After all I've got AAs in Screech and Fort Hyps in Sirens Song. That said, I personally feel Screech/SirS are more useful powers than Webnade/Inferno. Inferno would be a power I'd take for laughs, because crashing your endbar on a team is usually not a great idea. Taking a power for laughs is fine, but makes me reluctant to slot a purple set in it. It's like putting Hecatombs in Brawl or something. I guess if you don't have anywhere else you can put the purples okay, but I can't shake the feeling the slots and set (or set calibre) could be used much better elsewhere.
- I'm with Stray on this one. If taking Veng is asking people to die, what's the deal with taking the rez? I mean, this is something I covered in the guide. Yeah, ideally people won't ever die. But **** happens. When it does, you want the rez to get them back on their feet ASAP. When it does, Veng gives the team an incredibly powerful buff which helps prevent a domino effect leading to a wipe. That said, you've taken Veng in your second build
Though contrary to what you've said, it would not be your only set mule. I'm a little confused though, was the second build more for proof of concept? See how it'd work out? Because for what my 2 cents are worth, the second build is much better than the first.
Edit: This may sound strange coming from me, but I don't actually think not having RoF is a big deal for an Emp/Fire. Aside from Web Envelope (redraw, 2s cast time, 15' radius, noty) you've got nothing to keep them in the patch. For Corruptors this is less of an issue because when stuff gets to low health the double-Scourge will kill most before they can run out. This means you'd only really get use out of RoF when you're teamed with a Controller/Dominator.
RoF is fantastic if you can leverage it. For a build like Empathy which can't, I'd stick with Fireball/Breath over RoF.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
This thread delivers.
Also, in case anyone forgot, it's a guide, not a blueprint. That means you take away from it what you like, and disregard the rest.
Now, on with the show.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
Quote:
I knew the risks when I wrote it |
Originally Posted by Cobalt Azurean
This thread delivers.
Also, in case anyone forgot, it's a guide, not a blueprint. That means you take away from it what you like, and disregard the rest. Now, on with the show. |
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
All that needs to be fixed is getting Fire Blast for defenders into Mids. Which, if you look at the power selections from Ice Blast you can easily enough get an idea of what powers I'll be choosing from Fire Blast in the corresponding power selections. Blast, Ball, Blaze, Inferno, Aim.
Silas this should be easy enough for you to switch into Sonic and take a look at the differences between yours and mine. It's perfect for me and what I want it to do. Specifically, melt faces while still being yayanEmpath and being as effective as possible with both. As always with any build not everyone is going to agree everything that goes into a build. Some people like PBU, some people want Ranged Def, some people want Veng, everyone wants somethin' different if they really think about it. This however is specifically geared towards me and my play-style and what I want. So to each his own, this is just how Force be doin' it.