City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Brutes vs Tanks for surviveability

Arbegla

By Arbegla,
Posted on: 2011-08-28 05:19 in Brutes

 

Posted

If your willing to invest in it, there are very few circumstances in the game where a Brute will not out perform a Tank. The Tank's added survivability is usaully wasted. A brute is almost always more than tuff enough and does more damage.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
It all depends on your perspective of what's more important. Let's take a quick look at Inv/SS:

The tanker will have about 20% more HP and 20% more resistance to S/L than the brute. While the HP difference isn't all that big, the difference between 70% S/L resistance and 90% S/L resistance is.
Even on SOs with Cardiac T4, the Brute can get to 77% closing the gap some.

At the extreme end a Brute could also slot the 3% Shield Wall for a Solid 80% closing the gap a bit more.

However, the Tanker still wins by a large margin on exotics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
Tankers get Punchvoke allowing them to build equal threat on up to 5 targets using a single target attack, where brutes get Pokevoke allowing them to build threat off only as many targets as the attack they use actually hits target at a time.
I edited it a bit for a bit of finer detail.

An AoE focused brute can easily generate a ton of threat, while a ST focused Brute without taunt will be very limited to whatever can fit in their aura or they attack with their ST attacks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
And again, the damage difference, at the damage between scrappers and brutes is about 5 - 10%, which really only factors the critical chances scrapper have. Damage caps are measured with 100% base, so a tankers cap is really 400%, a scrappers is 500% and a brute is 775%. This is so damage debuffs work correctly, as explained here Damage caps
I think being compared at the damage caps skews things, its not a very common occurrence.

On top IO builds, using the power combinations or powersets with persistent +damage bonuses, I think Scrappers are out damaging Brutes by at least 15-25% or more. My own testing with DB/Ela for example gave me a result of 260 DPS, where Microcosm scored 345 DPS, the builds are identical. That's an advantage of about 33% in the Scrapper's favor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Even on SOs with Cardiac T4, the Brute can get to 77% closing the gap some.

At the extreme end a Brute could also slot the 3% Shield Wall for a Solid 80% closing the gap a bit more.

However, the Tanker still wins by a large margin on exotics.
That's still twice the survivability at the very least.

Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
That's still twice the survivability at the very least.
No argument there, but its still less than the gap of 70% vs 90%.

 

Posted

Just out of curiosity
whats the current thinking vis a vis
WP vs INV for Brutes
Are they close? Does one pull away?

Thanks

Feel The Burn

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
That's still twice the survivability at the very least.
Actually, if they are both soft capped its more like 11%-17% more survivable, i believe.


Oh hey, i was right. :P

Throw in, say...barrier and that gap closes even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraScorcher View Post
Just out of curiosity
whats the current thinking vis a vis
WP vs INV for Brutes
Are they close? Does one pull away?

Thanks
I prefer WP myself but i think they are really pretty close. Invul pulls ahead the most in s/l, but WP ends up with better survivablity with psi. Overall the invul might have the ability to pull ahead since they can generally get quite aways past the s/l/e/n soft cap with a larger mob and run with about 3k HP. But there is a growing amount of psi dmg these days, which still hits invul pretty hard.

"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal

@Caucasiafro

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrawatt View Post
Actually, if they are both soft capped its more like 11%-17% more survivable, i believe.


Oh hey, i was right. :P

Throw in, say...barrier and that gap closes even more.
Eh, I'm not sold on that.

Let's say a softcap reduces the damage you take by 90%. You are attacked by 10000 damage, but are hit 90% less often, so it's effectively 1000 damage. Then let's assume the Inv Brute with Cardiac and Shield Wall receives 200 damage, and the Inv Tank receives 100 damage. That's still 200% more.

And if the brute takes Barrier, the tanker can take Rebirth. Spiritual+Rebirth Radial+Tanker HP cap=win.

Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Eh, I'm not sold on that.

Let's say a softcap reduces the damage you take by 90%. You are attacked by 10000 damage, but are hit 90% less often, so it's effectively 1000 damage. Then let's assume the Inv Brute with Cardiac and Shield Wall receives 200 damage, and the Inv Tank receives 100 damage. That's still 200% more.

And if the brute takes Barrier, the tanker can take Rebirth. Spiritual+Rebirth Radial+Tanker HP cap=win.
Well, with some further inspection of the maths. That does seem right. I really dont that should be stated as being so simple.
And after reading over Nightchills post i actually agree with most of it.

Oh, then that tanker doesnt get any source of psi res while the broot does :P

"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal

@Caucasiafro