A Star Wars idea...


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McNum View Post
I'm going to have to call on a source for the warp strafing. It's true that the Trek ships do some fancy things with warp, like the Picard Maneuver creating an illusion of the ship with a very controlled microjump, but I don't believe they've ever been seen shooting at warp. Which makes sense, when you think of it. Phasers don't go faster than the speed of light, so firing one when you are seems like a bad plan.
In Journey to Babel, the Enterprise was strafed by an Orion ship at high warp. In the Elaan of Troyius the Enterprise has to fight a Klingon ship that is attacking it traveling at warp speed while its crippled to impulse: the Enterprise turns the tables when it restores warp speed and maneuverability. In the Ultimate Computer its not explicitly stated but the faux-wargame that takes place at the end is likely happening at warp speed because the Enterprise is traveling at warp speed when it engages the battle group and does not specifically drop out of warp.

Its also never specifically stated that phasers move at the speed of light, and furthermore it was eventually revealed that objects that leave a warp field can be, in at least some circumstances, left with a residual warp field that takes a little time to decay. Saucer section separation while at warp in TNG, for example - the saucer doesn't have a warp drive.


Quote:
I'm a little surprised, though. I didn't expect you to be a Wars/Trek debater. I'm almost retired with that, was into it 4-5 years ago. It got old.
It was old even when it was old. It was going on back when we had to do it with text based USENET readers. But its more interesting to speculate upon the issues than it is to debate the specifics. In a hard core debate both universe's depictions have enough internal contradictions to make any air tight argument impossible. But thinking about the technical and tactical limits themselves is just musing about the limits of extrapolating both fictional universes to their logical conclusions. The Star Trek universe was one based on the premise that humanity would one day master technology and mostly themselves, and use that mastery to conquer all of the external challenges in the universe. The Star Wars universe is based on the premise of a static or cyclical but grand universe where epic stories have a timeless quality. They don't have the same strengths and weaknesses, and so military forces from each would probably never actually fight in the kind of straight-up fight the premise of the "who would win" question tends to assume.

Lets face it; here's how that war would turn out. The Empire would strike first, and cause lots of casualties. Starfleet would regroup and their technological superiority would hold to a point, but they would be fighting a slowly losing battle of attrition. Then Scotty/Spock/Data/whoever would devise a technobabble hyperspace disruptor that would allow the Federation to prevent hyperspace incursion into the Alpha quadrant, preventing Imperial reinforcements and trapping the Imperial expeditionary force in the Alpha quadrant. And the Klingons would arrive and eat them.


[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrik View Post
I once wrote a short story with this as an idea about a Jedi and Sith battling near an ancient temple somehow getting warped to modern day earth. Both their lightsabers were broken so they had to learn to fight with alternative weapons. The Sith gathered a bunch of punks to do his bidding while the Jedi found a Force sensitive female who he made his padawan while she learned him stuff about living as a human being.

I somehow still like that idea, even if it sounds cheesy.
So you reversed the normal (mandatory even) story dynamic mandated by Lucas?

i must admit the Sith must be a pretty impressively badass species/civilization leftover to require that only two ever exist.

Okay, i'm lying. i always thought that was the dumbest thing the post-Sith species wannabe Sith like the Emperor and his predecessors could have decided to do. Or has that been changed? i don't pay that much attention to the ever shifting details of Star Wars canon.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

The problem with the Star Wars/Trek debate is that the Star Wars geeks rely on non-primary sources which pretty much go "Do we have shields? Only about a gajillion! What about weapon power? A Trillion times the number that Star Trek uses!" and when you start doing that it becomes pointless...

Another problem is that it is never stated what generation they are fighting. Kirk's generation would definitely lose, TNG would likely hold a stalemate for a while then the federation would win, 26th Century federation would decimate Star Wars technology and 27th and beyond century federation would likely view the Star Wars civ as such a non-threat they'd likely just never react.

As far as strategy for TNG era...I think it would be a stalemate for a long period of time but ultimately TNG Star Trek would win. Sure the empire would take over planets but the federation would be able to easily defeat the ground forces while the space forces likely the only challenge to most fed ships would be the bigger ships and because they can warp and attack and do so instantly the big ships would have to constantly deploy and call back then chase after them... eventually the fighters would be exhausted as they'd be taken out slowly over the many engagements. Also the smaller big ships would likely be taken out fairly easily and with the Federation they disable not destroy so it is likely they'd disable an empire ship with hyperdrive and back engineer them and then pass the schematics onto all their ships which would then figure it out and work up a way to fit them into all Federation ships... so the speed and number advantage would be gone shortly after arrival.

If the empire was much of a threat after that point TNG could employ teleportation technology, phaseshift technology, chronal technology, stealth technology, and limited time travel technology... All of which ignores superior "power" and shielding for the most part. We don't see or hear SW using those technology and as pointed out SW is fairly stagnant so it is unlikely they have a defense against those techs and couldn't develop them.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
So you reversed the normal (mandatory even) story dynamic mandated by Lucas?

i must admit the Sith must be a pretty impressively badass species/civilization leftover to require that only two ever exist.

Okay, i'm lying. i always thought that was the dumbest thing the post-Sith species wannabe Sith like the Emperor and his predecessors could have decided to do. Or has that been changed? i don't pay that much attention to the ever shifting details of Star Wars canon.
I don't know...I wrote it for fun...geez...you act like my short story that I only ever showed to a friend is the end of Star Wars...


The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games

I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?

@Lyrik

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
Okay, i'm lying. i always thought that was the dumbest thing the post-Sith species wannabe Sith like the Emperor and his predecessors could have decided to do. Or has that been changed? i don't pay that much attention to the ever shifting details of Star Wars canon.
I remember it being suggested that there are only two Sith because if there are ever three, two of them will inevitably ally to backstab the third. No idea now if that's remotely canon.


"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrik View Post
I don't know...I wrote it for fun...geez...you act like my short story that I only ever showed to a friend is the end of Star Wars...
Actually i'm fine with you doing anything you want in your fanfic. Any irritation or contempt you might be sensing is directed at Lucas' hack storytelling/worldbuilding. (Yeah, i'm being kind to GL in consideration of the feelings of his fans.)


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overconfidence View Post
I remember it being suggested that there are only two Sith because if there are ever three, two of them will inevitably ally to backstab the third. No idea now if that's remotely canon.
Makes you wonder how the original species/civilization to bear the name Sith ever got off their planet. Not that it stopped one of the Sith duo from planning to backstab the other anyway. *looks meaningfully at Vader* By that logic there should never be more than one to zero Sith around.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...