What If: There Were Heroic "Patron" Pools?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-08-05 01:17 in Suggestions and Ideas
Just for parity's sake, I would indeed like to see patron pools on the hero-side, as well, but from whom? If we broke this down to the individual characters, well... There are a zillion of those. There are the surviving EIGHT (granted, soon to be seven), the however many Vindicators, the four or so characters from City of Hero (Foreshadow and Mirror Spirit are already in the game) and so forth. To just pick and choose from those wouldn't be good enough, so I propose something different. How about earning the favour of entire groups? To this effect, I offer the following "Patron Groups:"
The Freedom Phalanx
The Vindicators
Hero Corps
Vanguard
Midnight Club
I'm not sure what any of these groups would offer in terms of powers, I just feel that we have enough entire factions to make this work.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If they were to do it just for parity's sake, how about they get parity on both sides first. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Just for parity's sake, I would indeed like to see patron pools on the hero-side, as well, but from whom? If we broke this down to the individual characters, well... There are a zillion of those. There are the surviving EIGHT (granted, soon to be seven), the however many Vindicators, the four or so characters from City of Hero (Foreshadow and Mirror Spirit are already in the game) and so forth. To just pick and choose from those wouldn't be good enough, so I propose something different. How about earning the favour of entire groups? To this effect, I offer the following "Patron Groups:"
The Freedom Phalanx The Vindicators Hero Corps Vanguard Midnight Club I'm not sure what any of these groups would offer in terms of powers, I just feel that we have enough entire factions to make this work. |
Also, before hero patrons, how about they finish with fleshing out the Epic Pools first too. You know, so my Cold/Ice Defender can have Arctic Mastery.
And after all that, they could do it as such...
You enter Fort Trident, you talk to one of the Freedom Phalanx members, and they offer to take you under their wing as their sidekick.
You say yes.
You get a series of missions where you have to keep your mentor alive as you battle hordes of their chosen enemies (ie...Crey if you chose Synapse).
Then when you complete the arc, taking down the huge AV at the end, and if your mentor still lives then you get...
"Congradulations ona job well down. We will now make it official with the city registry. You are one of my many sidekicks!"
Then at city hall you can pull up a list that shows all the heroes who have completed the arc, and who they chose, and it shows their name under the list of Freedom Phalanx members names.
Then not only that, they get a special title. Over their Title/Name/Selected Badge, they get the special title of "Synapse's Sidekick" (or whoever they chose of course) forever etched over their character as a badge of honor of completing the story arc.
Now of course, no matter who you choose, you can switch between the Hero Patron Pools, but you only get to select one Hero Patron to be sidekicked too.
Back Alley Brawler: Give passive body enhancing style powers.
Positron: Some Radiation theme set.
Synapse: +Spd, Electrical Attack/Control abilities
Sister Psyche: Team Buffs/Mez Protection all depending on what AT you are.
Citadel: Stuff like Surveillance, Targeting Drone...ect
Manticore: Better Weapon Mastery! Bows for Melee, Sword for Squishies, Angst Buffs for Blasters/Doms (Angst buffs = 1 min major buff to self after taking a 30 second penalty, like -10% to Hit)
Numina: Magicy Type attacks! Think of Rune of Warding only for blasts and melee attacks depending on the AT.
Statesman: Thunder Strike Clap! PBAOE moderate damage, enough to almost kill an even level minion who isn't resistant energy damage, that does MAJOR OMG WATCH THEM FLY KB. Plus some minor electic powers.
All patrons of course offer a Shield type power for the squishies, that look like the Patron Power Pool Shields. So nothing to animation busy and can work for any concept really.
There we go!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I love it! This idea is worthy of further exploration.
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They would have to be put somewhere else so that vigilantes can have access to them. Hence why the Patrons are in Grandville for Rouges and Villains. My suggestion is maybe a new section of City Hall or maybe a heroic super building somewhere is Paragon where the heroes are gathered. But don't put the building in Atlas, it has enough to deal with.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
You enter Fort Trident, you talk to one of the Freedom Phalanx members, and they offer to take you under their wing as their sidekick.
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On another note, if this happens, there has to be a villain side to Ancillary Power Pools.
I don't object to the idea but I also don't really like it. the short answer is that I'd rather see more APPs put in than adding Hero Patrons. The main reason is that from a concept point of view the PPPs tend to be more limiting than APPs so I'd really rather see new APPs to flesh out the list.
The other reason is that I'm not a fan of the need to unlock PPPs anyway so adding a second set of unlockable Epic pools (which are again side specific) just makes the problem worse. Currently I have to take my Heroes Villain-side if I want certain pools, adding another set of unlockable pools means I now end up having to take my Villains Hero-side to get full access. Two wrongs don't make a right and making a new problem for my Villains does not solve the problem my Heroes have.
Now what I would kind of like to see is a way to unlock the PPPs from Hero side. Instead of introducing a new set of PPPs and further muddying the waters make a new Hero story arc where you steal the secrets of the Arachnos Patrons in order to try and discover their weaknesses (and in the process find ways to use their power yourself for good). I think it would make a good story and would provide an excuse to make PPPs available to both sides.
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Originally Posted by Vexen777
They would have to be put somewhere else so that vigilantes can have access to them. Hence why the Patrons are in Grandville for Rouges and Villains. My suggestion is maybe a new section of City Hall or maybe a heroic super building somewhere is Paragon where the heroes are gathered. But don't put the building in Atlas, it has enough to deal with.
On another note, if this happens, there has to be a villain side to Ancillary Power Pools. |
The big open "Ampitheater" in Founders Falls would be the perfect place for this.
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Well, Villains do get access to Ancillary pools, don't they?|
Originally Posted by Vexen777
They would have to be put somewhere else so that vigilantes can have access to them. Hence why the Patrons are in Grandville for Rouges and Villains. My suggestion is maybe a new section of City Hall or maybe a heroic super building somewhere is Paragon where the heroes are gathered. But don't put the building in Atlas, it has enough to deal with.
On another note, if this happens, there has to be a villain side to Ancillary Power Pools. |
As for PPPs being limiting, they're supposed to be more Lore related than the generic powers that APPs give. I wouldn't mind more APPs as well, but I really do enjoy the story behind this game, and feel that CPPs would be a fun way to get involved.
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There is villain side Ancilary Pools. They arrived with GR.
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Originally Posted by Vexen777
They would have to be put somewhere else so that vigilantes can have access to them. Hence why the Patrons are in Grandville for Rouges and Villains. My suggestion is maybe a new section of City Hall or maybe a heroic super building somewhere is Paragon where the heroes are gathered. But don't put the building in Atlas, it has enough to deal with.
On another note, if this happens, there has to be a villain side to Ancillary Power Pools. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Not for VEATs. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
There is villain side Ancilary Pools. They arrived with GR.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Well, at least they -get- epic power pools.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Not for VEATs.
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[/Kheldians]
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Because they are epic ATs and they don't fit their Epic Storyline. Don't understand what's hard to accept about this, unless it's people wanting to use the AT for a totally different concept and not their intended (whether people like them or not) storyline purposes.
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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Not for VEATs.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Heres what I mean. Heroes get access to both PPP and APP depending on what side. A villain only gets access to APP if he is well... a hero or vigilante. Same concept for heroes. So redside needs it's own APP version if heroes get their own version of PPP.
The end result is people would have access to 8 pools. 4 lore related or 4 easier non-lore related that are more common powers.
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No, that's wrong. It's not true.
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Originally Posted by Vexen777
A villain only gets access to APP if he is well... a hero or vigilante. Same concept for heroes.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Ummm...that's wrong.|
Originally Posted by Vexen777
Heres what I mean. Heroes get access to both PPP and APP depending on what side. A villain only gets access to APP if he is well... a hero or vigilante. Same concept for heroes. So redside needs it's own APP version if heroes get their own version of PPP.
The end result is people would have access to 8 pools. 4 lore related or 4 easier non-lore related that are more common powers. |
Villain ATs get access to APPs no matter what alignment they are.
Start on redside, hit level 41 on rediside with never leaving redside, you get Blaze Mastery and all the other APPs on that Stalker!
Same with any other redside ATs.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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They fit as well as the Patron Pools do. Don't understand what's hard to accept about this.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Because they are epic ATs and they don't fit their Epic Storyline. Don't understand what's hard to accept about this, unless it's people wanting to use the AT for a totally different concept and not their intended (whether people like them or not) storyline purposes.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Patron Arcs are the Patrons teaching the chaarcter/or giving them access to the power. APPs are usually tied to the characters in some way.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
They fit as well as the Patron Pools do. Don't understand what's hard to accept about this.
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Now, you as the player may think, "Well my Night Widow has learned to create fireballs" but according to the Epic Storyline they're a part of, they can't.
What's so hard to accept about that?
Mind you, I have no worries about it myself. If they got them, sure great. They don't? No worries to me.
But I can use that same logic and make it work for them not having them. As it's how their EPIC Storyline exists right now.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
So, this was kind of inspired by a discussion I read about here, and it's by no means a new idea.
Currently, the way Epic Power Pools are set up, everyone gets access to Ancillary Pools, but only people who have completed the Patron Arcs can access Soul, Leviathan, Mu, and Mace Mastery.
So, in the interests of balance (and because it's really cool), why not introduce a heroic equivalent?
The Patrons are significant because the powers they grant are similar to those seen throughout the rogue isles. Mako and Ghost Widow offer some of their own powers, while Black Scorpion and Scirocco offer powers used by various NPC groups seen throughout the Rogue Isles.
The Freedom Phalanx and the Vindicators, however, lack that same distinction. Most of them draw power from the same pools as players do (though in unorthodox combinations), and they lack the unique appearance and lore of the four patrons.
In addition, the idea of buttering up a more powerful member of an organization to gain power is a rather villainous concept. A Villain seeks Power, but Power seeks a Hero.
...Crazy Wells non-withstanding, anyway.
So, I propose that the Hero Exclusive Epic Power pools be called Crisis Power Pools.
Rather than earning the favor of a powerful patron, these powers are obtained in the process of preventing a crisis of some kind. Similar to how the Terra Volta trial uses the radiation as an excuse to explain how your powers fluctuate, a Crisis Power Pool bestows the potential for new powers upon you as a side effect of you preventing or resolving a Crisis.
Like Patron pools, these would need to be tied into the lore. Some possible examples.
Umbral Mastery
-You have been exposed to the Nictus Fragments used by the council to empower their Galaxy Soldiers. As a result, you have begun to exhibit some of the power of a Nictus.
The Nictus are a cool enemy group, and I personally loved the arc in Cap Au Diable where you played host to a Nictus for a short time. So being able to obtain some of their powers in an Epic Pool would be very inciting.
Technological Mastery
-You have obtained a cache of Praetorian technology. These highly advanced devices are years ahead of their Primal equivalents, something you can use to your advantage.
Praetorians get loads of cool toys, and many of them don't require any special mutation or power change to explain. This not only lets players use powers normally exclusive to Praetorian mobs, it's also perfect for Tech and Natural heroes.
I'm opening the floor for other suggestions, but what do you think?