Walk

No, you're right... that blows my response out of the water (besides what Forbin mentions).

So, yeah... I'm not sure what was done for Beat Run and Ninja Run... hmmm.
I'm going to have to examine the animations!!

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

This.

*mmmm... less than three, female walk animation...*

In a game nazi werewolves fight walking plants in the street while we're busy fighting off an invasion from the OTHER hostile alternate dimension all the while aliens are taking over ancient Rome in search for the power of the gods? I'm not sure "realism" is a very convincing argument.

The part where you didn't actually answer his question and instead chose to sidestep it. Did they reanimate every single power in the game to work with Ninja Run and Beast Run? No, they did not.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Perhaps the more general question ought to be would anyone have paid for Walk the same way we paid for Ninja Run and Beast Run? Walk wasn't provided as a full-blown travel power in a Booster Pack. It was a Dev's side project and as such it was accordingly limited in scope.

None of us non-Devs really know how much effort it took to create something like Ninja Run versus Walk. We're all just guessing here. But the one FACT we do have is that the Devs sold us Ninja Run as part of a Pack whereas we got Walk for free. Clearly whatever it took to get Ninja Run working was complex enough that the Devs decided it had to be sold as something extra. Walk on the other hand was simple enough that it could be given to us for free.

So we're left with the obvious logical conclusion: For Walk to be as completely developed as Ninja Run it'd likely have to be sold to us as a fully fleshed out integrated travel power. I might have been dumb enough to pay for a fully animated Walk, but my guess is that most people would not have bothered spending money on it. Thus instead of wasting Dev time and effort making a full travel power that few people would buy they let Walk slip out the side door as a limited "super-emote". It is what it is and it's never going to be any better than that. *shrugs*

Ninja Run was sold for money for two reasons:

1. The Martial Arts pack needed a temporary power, and that was a paid pack.

2. It's a quasi-travel-power available from level 4 that doesn't require a power pick.

Yes, Ninja Run was sold for money. Yes, Ninja Run took time and effort to make work like it does. I don't believe it's quite so simple to conclude that Ninja Run was sold for money BECAUSE it took time and effort to make work. Half the emotes in the Party Pack took absolutely no time an effort to make, on account of them being reused animations which were already in the game prior to the pack's release, yet those were sold for money, too. Because Ninja Run and Beast Run were bundled not just in paid packs but with serious game advantages, it's not at all safe to postulate exactly what their cost accounts for.

Actually, the only logical conclusion we can draw is that if Walk were a part of a Booster pack and added some kind of utility, and allowed you to use powers with it on, but also cost endurance to run, then it might cost money. The conclusion you draw is not in the slightest obvious, not to me, at least. If anything, it's inductive logic that's functionally unprovable.

And all that said - if they tried to sell me Walk with the ability to use powers with it... I'd buy it. I bought the Party Pack, after all.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

As near as I can tell from looking at it visually, the way Ninja Run and Beast Run work is that when you use a power it moves you into the normal "running" stance and then activates the power using the standard animation. I would have thought that a similar method could be used with Walk but it could easily be programmed differently.

My argument is that the travel powers that were fully usable with animations and no power suppression such as Ninja Run and Beast Run were sold to us as Pack items. A "travel power" of sorts (Walk) that was limited in animations and functionality was given to us for free. That's not inductive logic - that's a fact.

My simple conclusion, which I think a 3rd grader could figure out and accept, is that if the Devs had bothered to put the same amount of effort into Walk as they did for Ninja Run they would have probably also charged extra money for it. Probably is the operative word - if the Devs thought a full travel power was worth extra money (for WHATEVER reason) it's quite likely a fully functional Walk would demand extra money as well. This logical step is incredibly reasonable and straightforward. It's easily provable that new "real" travel powers introduced since 2004 (e.g. Jump Pack, Ninja Run, Beast Run and Steam Jump) have all cost players extra money - if Walk had been a fully fleshed out travel power all evidence suggests that they would have also charged for it.

This is why the "suggestion" being raised to have Walk made more robust is unrealistic to begin with. Does anyone really think the Devs are going to take an existing feature they already gave to us for free and re-work it enough to make it a something that would otherwise have been functional enough to charge extra money for? The Devs are not going to take Walk and ever make a "real" travel power out of it. The "cost versus free" argument alone is enough to shoot down this idea.

Now you're talkin'! Time for a cane powerset to use with walk. And I'd beat those whippersnappers offa my lawn with it too. You bet'cha.

That is not in the least a "logical conclusion." It is an assumption on your part.

Why did we get Ninja Run? Not because we needed a travel power, but because someone thought it fit the martial arts theme. Perhaps from watching anime.

Why did we get Beast Run? Not because we needed a travel power, but because it fit the more animalistic characters people could make with the parts in that pack. You know... an RP reason.

Sort of like why we got Walk in the first place.
And with the insults....

How do you KNOW there was more or less effort put into Ninja Run versus Walk? How do you KNOW that Walk didn't actually take MORE time to do in order to add the suppression?

Answer: You don't. But since it fits your ASSUMPTION to say it didn't take as much work, you want to throw it out as a fact to try to shoot down a perfectly reasonable request.


Show me where you purchased any of them separately instead of part of a pack. And if you purchased the GvE edition (which was *the only* edition available for some time,) you did not pay extra for the jump pack. Just like I didn't pay extra for the Prestige Power Slide (or cape of the four winds) I got with my COH CE I started the game with. There was no other edition for me to *buy* at the time.

No, actually, it is not.
Because, of course, they never rework anything they've given us for free ("For free" meaning "Without extra cost on top of the subscription.") They have always charged us for costume parts. THey charged us for power customization. They charged us for alternate animations. They charged us for...

Wait, they didn't?

So they DO go back and revisit things they gave us for free? Doing things besides bug fixes, responding to reasonable requests from the playerbase?

Imagine that.



Your avatar's costume is in red. Your name is not.
No, the "cost versus free" is *not* "enough to shoot down this idea." Not in the least.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Originally Posted by PapaSlade Rangle's right....this is fun.

I can sum up most of your points against my argument as "You're wrong because it goes against my wishful desire to have Walk be improved". I would have expected more from someone like you than simple naysaying. It's hardly worth my time continuing to give you VALID REASONS why Walk will never be improved when all you counter with is "I don't care I want it anyway".

For your sake I hope the Devs prove me wrong someday... *shrugs*

Strangely I can use the same argument against you:

"I can sum up most of your points as 'You're wrong because I don't think Walk should be changed.'"

Simple naysaying? You're making assumptions, I'm pointing out that that's exactly what they were - and this is the best you can come back with?

Sounds more to me like you don't want to admit your argument holds less water than a fishing net.

See my Guides and Tutorials

As a player I certainly don't have any experience with the code involved here. But as software engineer with almost 20 year of professional experience I can make some educated guesses about the relative difficulty to implement something like Ninja Run versus something like Walk. That's all I need for a general discussion of this nature without making the pure assumptions you accuse me of.

Ironically I'd love to see Walk improved here as well. I simply seem to be more aware and accepting of the relative chances of that happening than others in this thread.

Along with extra back ground music.

Reminds me of a comment from Arcanaville a while back talking about various things in the game. "If you think you know how the code works, you're wrong. If you think you know how it works from experience programming, you're really wrong."

See my Guides and Tutorials

While the insult is appreciated, your logical fallacy remains evident. This actually reminds me of an IQ test question: "If some greens are reds and some reds are blues, can we say that some greens blues?" No, we cannot, because we have no guarantee.

You take facts: Ninja Run cost money, Ninja Run is a travel power, Ninja Run works with powers, Walk is a travel power of sorts. However, the conclusions you draw from them are the very definition of inductive logic. You postulate that these facts are cause and effect. Because Ninja was a travel power in a pack we had to pay for, Walk being a travel power of sorts would also cost us money. This is inductive logic because it starts with a premise - Walk would cost us money - and then works backwards to draw up a reasonable justification. The problem with inductive logic is that it's exclusive - it proves only a single assertion, but does not bother to disprove all other assertions. Inductive logic, therefore, is useful for setting up goals, but not useful for providing conclusive proof.

You are basing your entire argument on what most would call circumstantial evidence. What you have consistently and it seems intentionally ignored is what is at this point fairly common knowledge about the animations system, which BABs went to great lengths to explain. You base your entire argument on the assertion that fitting Walk to work with all other powers would be some kind of monumental task with the only evidence to that fact being that the developers haven't done this. This is easily disproved by the fact that the developers have thus far failed to fix the ugly typos in Maria Jenkins' description, which were not fixed even when her entire character model was updated and her missions and story arcs were updated, as well. This change has not been held back because it's a colossal amount of work we would have to buy a "Fixed oru spelling!" Booster Pack to justify it. It hasn't been fixed because no-one has been arsed to fix it. When people have pointed out typos in my own Architect missions, I have gone into the editor and fixed them within the span of five minutes, and I lack actual development tools.

You take an issue which in BABs' own words was one of priorities and turn it into one of cost of investment, and it simply isn't, not based on everything we know about how the animations system works. To even suggest that all powers would need to be reanimated to work with Walk is not just the height of absurdity, but is also easily provable to be false.

Your argument is largely empty because you're drawing an inductive conclusion based on circumstantial evidence while completely ignoring the elephant in the room of what Ninja Run itself cost and what part of that cost accounts for its animations budget. This is the same height of empty musing as trying to deduce the number of active game accounts based on PlayNC's box sales earnings in WON. You can claim it, but it'll still "probably" be incorrect.

Well, as a player, I know what the actual developers in charge of the actual code have said on the matter. BABs spoke at length on the subject, and nothing he ever said spoke of difficulty, time or cost. All he ever talked about was priorities and, frankly, I'm pretty sure the guy just didn't want to bother. Considering the reception the power got, if I were him, I'd certainly have felt like saying "Yeah, lettuce you, too! See if I waste my time making free stuff for you again!" I'm sure Bruce was above that, but when it came down to it, this got worked on when he felt like working on it, and once he put it in the game, he didn't feel like working on it.

Also as a player, I know what BABs has said about the animations system and how activation sequences work. These aren't a question of animating animations or manipulating player rigs. They're a question of programming the rigs on how they operate. It is work, obviously, but it's not ARTWORK.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.