MA/Regen: Why can't I get dull pain perma?
By
Cerulean_Shadow,
Posted on: 2011-07-31 20:33 in Scrappers
T4 Spiritual Core will bring it down to 121s without using Hasten.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
You need more recharge in Hasten.
With 3 level 50 Recharge IOs in Hasten and 95%+ recharge in Dull Pain, you only need around 55% global recharge to have Perma Dull Pain. (it's actually slightly less than 55%, but 55% is a nice goal to shoot for)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
You already have what I call pseudo-perma. By which I mean you can have it up all the time but not passively. You have to use a click buff to make it perma.
DP has a 0.924s cast, so you need [360s / (120s - 0.924s) - 1] = 2.023 or 202.3% +Rech for it to be perma.
You have 116.5% slotted from IOs and the Alpha. With the Spiritual Core Paragon that would go up to 129.7%. You have +67.5% global. So you're currently at 184.0% and would be at 197.2% with the Alpha T4 upgrade. So no, that alone wouldn't make it perma.
However, you have Hasten. You only need 202.3% - 184.0% = 18.3% more global to have DP perma. To get that from Hasten you only have to use it 18.3% / 70% = 26.1% of the time. It has a better up time than that with no enhancement or global recharge. With your slotting it's current up time could be 83.1% making its average buff equivalent to +58.1% global. So your average cycle time on DP should be around 360s / (1 + 1.165 + 0.675 + 0.581) + 0.924s = 106.2s.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Let's for a moment pretend I'm an idiot, because I'm sure feeling like one right about now. 
Right now, I have control-clicked Dull Pain to make it go off automatically. It does so every 127 seconds, seven seconds too late. Are you saying that I need to click hasten every so often to insure that DP goes off in under two minutes? Because I can't control-click two powers to make them go off automatically, can I? Do I need to respec anything? If so, what?
Thank you all for your help, and I'm sorry to have to ask you to explain that help further! I just don't quite get it.
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
Quote:
Basically, yes. Perma Dull Pain is possible without using Hasten at all, but it is extremely expensive, as it requires multiple purple sets. |
Originally Posted by Cerulean_Shadow
Are you saying that I need to click hasten every so often to insure that DP goes off in under two minutes?
|
I am not counting tier 4 Spiritual for this, because you can technically achieve Perma Dull Pain as early as level 31 if you are so inclined by using the lowest level available of the sets that give you the necessary recharge bonuses. I say level 31 because that is the earliest you can have 5 slots in Instant Healing, which is needed for the 3rd set of Doctored Wounds. (I suppose you could put them in Fast Healing or Integration, but that doesn't seem practical)
I do it the opposite of what you do. I leave Hasten on auto and click Dull Pain manually, because I like having the giant heal available if I need it. I don't keep my DP perma at all times, but I like knowing that I can if the situation warrants it.
Quote:
| Because I can't control-click two powers to make them go off automatically, can I? Do I need to respec anything? If so, what? |
The only thing you need to change about your build is adding 2 more recharges into Hasten. Just on skimming it it looks like you should have enough recharge to pull it off. 5x LotG is 37.5% recharge, and you have 4 5% recharge bonuses in there which puts you at 57.5% global recharge, which is enough to do it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Hallelujah, I understand now! Seriously, thanks so much for taking the time to explain.
The idea of making hasten perm is appealing. So if I respec and put two more recharges in hasten, that should do it? Any advice on what I should remove to make that happen? I'm thinking the fourth LOTG in Weave, as my accuracy is pretty good without it. Not sure what else I can lose, though.
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
Maybe ditch the three Aegis in Tough, just put a dam resist in it, increase Dark Blast to six so I can use the last siphon insight to pick up the AOE, fire, and cold bonuses there, and get rid of the fourth LOTG in Weave?
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
Permahasten takes about 100% in global recharge bonuses on top of ED capped recharge slotting, or a little less if you also go spiritual. It really isn't worth the hassle in most cases unless you specifically need it to be permanent for some reason. DP is so much easier to perma than hasten that just achieving that first goal should be plenty good.
I don't remember the bonuses you get for performance shifter's last few slots as I've never felt it worthwhile to go that far, so unless they're life changing I'd suggest dropping at least three slots from QR. That frees up slots for hasten and then some. Ah okay, just a little aoe defense. Yeah, ditch that and keep aegis in tough. That costs you a tiny bit more aoe defense but leaves you with more useful power slotting and shouldn't cause any problems recovery-wise.
I'd keep Hasten on auto, and click Dull Pain whenever you notice it. If you're not in a situation where you will die instantly, keeping Dull Pain on auto will just cut into your DPS, whereas Hasten improves your attack powers recharge too. And being able to time the heal for when you're actually damaged is, ya know, useful.
OMG! How like, totally kewl are these characters?!1
I agree with the notion of preferring Hasten on auto than Dull Pain. I like only using Dull Pain when I need it. If I can afford to use DP in a reactive fashion, after I take damage, I benefit from using DP's big heal to negate damage taken, and then I'm more durable due to the +HP for two minutes. If DP is on auto, I would probably just benefit from the +HP, with the heal's benefit being essentially random.
In contrast, Hasten doesn't give you any burst benefit when you use it. If you want to auto something, I think it's the better choice.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Will my current build support it, by slotting two more recharges in Hasten? There seems to be conflicting opinions.
Having Hasten perma does make sense, if it's feasible.
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
Two more recharges won't make hasten perma by themselves but what I was saying is that it doesn't really matter if hasten is perma for you. Having a gap is pretty irrelevant as long as you have enough recharge for perma DP, which you do, particularly with two more recharge enhancers in hasten.
Okay, that makes sense!
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
I got 4th tier Spiritual Alpha today and, voila... DP is permanent. It fires about 1 second before the last one wears off.
That said, I am going to respec and put two charges in Haste. It makes sense to do it that way, and should help my other powers activate quicker as well.
Thanks for everyone's help, feedback and opinions!
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
If you got t4 spiritual, 3 slotting hasten would be a waste...
I would hold off on that respec... I see a few things that could be improved.
Like what? I am open to suggestions!
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
Quote:
rebuilding it for s/l defense instead of melee and getting more recharge into Shmeld and MoG to cycle them better. Here's the build I'm looking at for my Km/Regen (hopefully I don't decide to reroll her as KM/EA post i21) for reference.|
Originally Posted by Cerulean_Shadow
Like what? I am open to suggestions!
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Code:
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SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
or something like this, I was amazed that it had enough extra slots to actually get some values into FH and health. That never seems to happen.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
 |
^Professional Katana/regen build thread
I based this build on another I found in the forums. I made a few changes, but nothing that would adversely affect enhancement recharge. Their build says it has perma-dull pain, but mine doesn't. As it stands, Dull Pain recharges at 2 min. 7 sec. - seven seconds after the effects wear off. I'm not sure what else I can do to make it permanent.
Would putting a standard recharge IO enhancement in dull pain help? I'm not sure what to sacrifice if I do that.
I do have the third tier Spiritual alpha, which gives 33% recharge rate. Would the fourth tier (45%) Spiritual alpha shave off the 7 seconds?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fist of Chains: Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (5) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus: Level 35
Level 1: Fast Healing- (A) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration: Level 30
Level 2: Cobra Strike- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
- (5) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (7) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (9) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (9) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40
Level 4: Reconstruction- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (11) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (11) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (13) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 50
- (13) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 50
Level 6: Quick Recovery- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
- (15) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge: Level 50
- (15) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (17) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (17) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy: Level 50
- (19) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
Level 8: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 10: Focus Chi- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 50
- (19) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 50
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
- (23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50
- (23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
Level 12: Crane Kick- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
- (25) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (25) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (27) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (27) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (29) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40
Level 14: Dull Pain- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (29) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (31) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (31) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 50
- (31) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 50
Level 16: Super Speed- (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
- (33) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (33) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (33) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (34) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (34) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40
Level 20: Integration- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50
- (36) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
Level 22: Resilience- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
Level 24: Combat Jumping- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
Level 26: Dragon's Tail- (A) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (39) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
Level 28: Instant Healing- (A) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (40) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (40) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 50
- (40) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 50
Level 30: Kick- (A) Damage Increase IO: Level 50
Level 32: Eagles Claw- (A) Hecatomb - Damage: Level 50
- (42) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (43) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (43) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
Level 35: Tough- (A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
- (43) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge: Level 50
- (45) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50
Level 38: Weave- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
Level 41: Dark Blast- (A) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (46) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (46) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/ToHit Debuff: Level 50
- (48) Siphon Insight - Chance for +ToHit: Level 45
- (48) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff: Level 50
Level 44: Shadow Meld- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 50
Level 47: Moment of Glory- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
Level 49: Maneuvers- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
------------Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Damage Increase IO: Level 50
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50
Level 2: Rest- (A) Healing IO: Level 50
Level 2: Swift- (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50
Level 2: Hurdle- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
Level 2: Health- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50
Level 2: Stamina- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
- (50) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
Level 1: Critical HitLevel 4: Ninja Run
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!