NRG Blasters Vs Warshade/PB
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-07-28 04:43 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Warshades are not heavy on knockback and they do not do energy damage. You seem to think the PB and WS are very much the same animal. That could not be farther from the truth.
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Actually. That was my mistake. I was thinking of the PB more than the WS and I should have clarified that. The PB is what I was mainly looking at. I know that the WS is negative energy.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Warshades are not heavy on knockback and they do not do energy damage. You seem to think the PB and WS are very much the same animal. That could not be farther from the truth.
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But I do considder them in my head as a blaster type. Ranged damage etc.
So I was sort of wondering if perhaps I should stick with my Blaster, or look more to the Khelds.
The Blaster is fine as she is, but I was almost wondering if something different might be fun. I have truthfully not played out to many Khelds.
I know I don't like spawning voids at all. Thats why I originally went with the blaster, but my mouse button did linger over the two Khelds for a long time.
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Three of the four Dark Nova attacks and Gravitic Emanation have KB, in some cases high magnitude KB, so I think the OP has the right image of them. PBs have more, sure, but that doesn't mean WSs aren't heavy on KB.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Warshades are not heavy on knockback and they do not do energy damage. You seem to think the PB and WS are very much the same animal. That could not be farther from the truth.
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To answer the OP, the WS has so much more utility than the Blaster that the WS is definitely worth it. However, it requires a very active playstyle. If you prefer to sit back and 1-2-1-3 your way through mobs, then I would not recommend the WS.
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Voids are completely a non-issue these days. Their damage is resistable and much less than it ever was.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
I know I don't like spawning voids at all. Thats why I originally went with the blaster, but my mouse button did linger over the two Khelds for a long time.
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If I were you, I wouldn't play a PB. They have some demonstrable balance issues, at least for the time being. In one of the USTREAMs the devs said they "will be taking a look at them." Again, I'd suggest you hold off on those.
In general, though, I disagree that Kheldians function like blasters. Kheldians were the first hybrid AT, before villains came around. PBs were intended to be able to fit whatever role the team needed, being able to tank quite well if the team was heavy on damage and damage very well if the team was heavy on support. It didn't work out too well, especially if the PB was solo.
Warshades, on the other hand, are the closest thing you'll find to a tankmage. Played and built right, a Warshade can be a dominator with better than scrapper survival and blaster AoE damage. When you put enough recharge into them, you sit at 85% resistance to everything, all the time, as well as hitting your own damage cap and being followed by three damage dealing pets. For more details on all that, I'd point you to my MFing Warshade guide. The link is in my signature.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
In Nova, only two attacks can do KB. Detonation is high enough knockback, but Blast is single target, is only a 10% chance, and is low magnitude. Gravitic Emanation in human form has KB, but it's not an attack, it's a control power.|
Originally Posted by streetlight
Three of the four Dark Nova attacks and Gravitic Emanation have KB, in some cases high magnitude KB, so I think the OP has the right image of them. PBs have more, sure, but that doesn't mean WSs aren't heavy on KB.
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The only attack with KB that a WS often cycles is Dark Nova Detonation. If one attack counts for "heavy on KB" then I guess you are right.
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Originally Posted by streetlight
To answer the OP, the WS has so much more utility than the Blaster that the WS is definitely worth it. However, it requires a very active playstyle. If you prefer to sit back and 1-2-1-3 your way through mobs, then I would not recommend the WS.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Ill give it a go. Perhaps I can get into the feeling of it and give it a decent try this time. The Khelds are compelling enough in general. Ill roll another WS to see. Although I have not had much progress getting them past 20
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Voids are completely a non-issue these days. Their damage is resistable and much less than it ever was.
If I were you, I wouldn't play a PB. They have some demonstrable balance issues, at least for the time being. In one of the USTREAMs the devs said they "will be taking a look at them." Again, I'd suggest you hold off on those. In general, though, I disagree that Kheldians function like blasters. Kheldians were the first hybrid AT, before villains came around. PBs were intended to be able to fit whatever role the team needed, being able to tank quite well if the team was heavy on damage and damage very well if the team was heavy on support. It didn't work out too well, especially if the PB was solo. Warshades, on the other hand, are the closest thing you'll find to a tankmage. Played and built right, a Warshade can be a dominator with better than scrapper survival and blaster AoE damage. When you put enough recharge into them, you sit at 85% resistance to everything, all the time, as well as hitting your own damage cap and being followed by three damage dealing pets. For more details on all that, I'd point you to my MFing Warshade guide. The link is in my signature. |
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Dark Nova Emanation accepts KB sets, which is probably where the 3rd attack came from in the quote.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
In Nova, only two attacks can do KB. Detonation is high enough knockback, but Blast is single target, is only a 10% chance, and is low magnitude. Gravitic Emanation in human form has KB, but it's not an attack, it's a control power.
The only attack with KB that a WS often cycles is Dark Nova Detonation. If one attack counts for "heavy on KB" then I guess you are right. |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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I made a Rad/Energy Blaster and changed the power colors to match a PB's and the only reason I did that was because I love to play my PB in human for and I got the same feel from the blaster; however I can produce more damage as a blaster, but the blasters are not as survivable as a PB. When Dark Blasters come out I will do the same and make a Blaster to try to mimic my Warshade. Even though I make blasters to mimic my Kheldians, they will never replace them. |
Originally Posted by Nyx
I made an Energy/Ice Blaster last night and my thoughts were on why I would make an Energy Blaster over a Warshade as both have knockback, energy damage.
Obviosly I know the difference between the AT's with WS being maybe more survivable, or versatile. But both are squishy for the most part depending on how you build them. Since KB is not my favorite alternative status effect, I am wondering which I may enjoy more. Ice secondary is what I chose for Thematic Purposes, but Im begining to wonder if the blasters ability to damage is outweighed by the WS/PB versatility. I have just been playing the butt of my Dom and my Controller so much I feel like I need to change it up a little. Something new and fresh. |
FYI... As mentioned above that the damage type of the PB and WS are Different. Peacebringers and Warshades both produce energy damage; however the difference is PB's produce Energy Damage and WS produce Negative Energy Damage.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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I did the same, except that I would certainly not claim that the human form PB is any more survivable than the blaster.
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Originally Posted by Big_Soto
I made a Rad/Energy Blaster and changed the power colors to match a PB's and the only reason I did that was because I love to play my PB in human for and I got the same feel from the blaster; however I can produce more damage as a blaster, but the blasters are not as survivable as a PB.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I should have said "it is more survivable for my play style." Three shields, two self heals, one tier 9, Phase, and conserve power keeps me alive. Most of this can be selected by a blaster by picking power pools and APP/PPP's, but PB do not have to dip into power pools for that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I did the same, except that I would certainly not claim that the human form PB is any more survivable than the blaster.
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Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Quote:
The blaster still gets one shield, up to two self heals (Hoarfrost/Aid Self), starts with more HP and has a much easier time reaching relevant softcaps.|
Originally Posted by Big_Soto
I should have said "it is more survivable for my play style." Three shields, 2 self heals, 1 tier 9, Phase, and conserve power keeps me alive.
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As another option, the blaster could get one resistance shield and a tier nine, but forgoing the second heals.
I'm not going to claim that one is better than the other. That's all I'm saying.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
LOL... I edited it before you said it.... But it seems that we agree |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The blaster still gets one shield, up to two self heals (Hoarfrost/Aid Self), starts with more HP and has a much easier time reaching relevant softcaps.
As another option, the blaster could get one resistance shield and a tier nine, but forgoing the second heals. I'm not going to claim that one is better than the other. That's all I'm saying. |
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Quote:
Shadow Cyst Crystals (Proper ones, not the gimped things you find on the ITF), however, can still be excellent fun on a big team if someone isn't paying attention and aggros one by mistake before the rest of the team has noticed.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Voids are completely a non-issue these days. Their damage is resistable and much less than it ever was.
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I see. In which case, I have just one more comment.|
Originally Posted by Big_Soto
LOL... I edited it before you said it.... But it seems that we agree
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Originally Posted by Big_Soto
Most of this can be selected by a blaster by picking power pools and APP/PPP's, but PB cannot dip into epic power pools for that.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Both times my WS went on Apex a Cyst spawned next to Battle Maiden - Which meant Eclipse, Double mire, and Ion for half the HP of the cyst to disappear. Of course, it's still hilarious how a well built/prepared team can just steamroll them (though I DO think the reward for a cyst should be looked at).
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Shadow Cyst Crystals (Proper ones, not the gimped things you find on the ITF), however, can still be excellent fun on a big team if someone isn't paying attention and aggros one by mistake before the rest of the team has noticed.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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But you're talking about IOs and power pools, PBs can also take Aid Self.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The blaster still gets one shield, up to two self heals (Hoarfrost/Aid Self), starts with more HP and has a much easier time reaching relevant softcaps.
As another option, the blaster could get one resistance shield and a tier nine, but forgoing the second heals. I'm not going to claim that one is better than the other. That's all I'm saying. |
PBs get the shields earlier, two self heals also early, and the phase and godmode before blasters can get Hibernate and etc (dont remember if they have any godmode in the epics, I don't have a high level blaster). They're way more survivable than a blaster till your 44 epic or maybe level 45 when you get at least 2 epics/patrons slotted. I'm saying that because I don't spend too much time on my 50s except for the ones I really care about, which are like 3 now since I burned out on 2 of them (just the two I have purpled builds) and the other 3 I shelved.
Doesn't mean that they'll survive longer everytime of course, my no-defense farming SS/FA Brute kills stuff so fast that even on trials he manages to survive in ridiculous situations because of the stupid damage, while I once had my 50 Elec/Stone Brute defeated by 4 pink (+3) cimeroran bosses because well... ELM sucks for damage on hard targets.
Took forever for them to take me down because my damage was so bad, I sapped them with my elec attacks before killing them, besides Stoners being very tough, but eventually their defense debuffs wore me out (I was kinda testing the brute so I didn't use insps or ran away, I think he still can be good as a damage toon if I get Gloom and more recharge, I built him too much like a Tank, old toon from when I made some bad choices in the build).
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Actually Dark Detonation (the human level 12 AoE power that every triformer skips, actually I've never seen it used, probably because it does less damage than Ebon Eye) has 50% chance of mag 3 kb, if this power was a 'must have' I guess you could say WSs are kinda KB prone. But even with it I wouldn't say they're heavy on KB like an Energy Blaster or a PB.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
In Nova, only two attacks can do KB. Detonation is high enough knockback, but Blast is single target, is only a 10% chance, and is low magnitude. Gravitic Emanation in human form has KB, but it's not an attack, it's a control power.
The only attack with KB that a WS often cycles is Dark Nova Detonation. If one attack counts for "heavy on KB" then I guess you are right. |
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Well, yes, there is that one. But in practice, you only take that power if you skip Nova, which is why I omitted it.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Actually Dark Detonation (the human level 12 AoE power that every triformer skips, actually I've never seen it used, probably because it does less damage than Ebon Eye) has 50% chance of mag 3 kb, if this power was a 'must have' I guess you could say WSs are kinda KB prone. But even with it I wouldn't say they're heavy on KB like an Energy Blaster or a PB.
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At the end of the day, your warshade still only has one regularly cycled AoE KB attack.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I assume by "regularly cycled" you mean "more than once per mob" since my WS took and uses Unchain Essence all the time, to say nothing of Gravitic Emanation.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, yes, there is that one. But in practice, you only take that power if you skip Nova, which is why I omitted it.
At the end of the day, your warshade still only has one regularly cycled AoE KB attack. |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
One thing to note that even if PBs are one the weaker side, they offer more versatility within the build than a blaster does due to the 3 forms. Blasters get their versatility via the different styles of blasters you can roll. A Fire/fire, Sonic/elec, and Ice/ice will all three play different.
Peacebringers might not be up to par with Warshades, but I don't think that means people shouldn't play them. If you enjoy using Knockback as mitigation and like a fast paced play style PB's are definitely viable. Warshades are infinitely more powerful, obviously, but I don't think that makes PB's unplayable by any means.
Knockback in human form
Knockback in Nova form
Knock Back in Dwarf form
** I did this for no other reason than I am Bored... Warshade has 9 KB powers
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Knockback/KnockDown in human form
Knockback in Nova form
Knock Back in Dwarf form
*** Peacebringer Wins the KB/KD race by having 11....lol
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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Yes, I do. I use Unchain Essence as often as it's up, but even then, it's every sixty seconds. I can't call that regularly cycled.|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
I assume by "regularly cycled" you mean "more than once per mob" since my WS took and uses Unchain Essence all the time, to say nothing of Gravitic Emanation.
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Gravitic Emanation, as I mentioned earlier, is a control power, not an attack, thus the exclusion from my mention.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I made an Energy/Ice Blaster last night and my thoughts were on why I would make an Energy Blaster over a Warshade as both have knockback, energy damage.
Obviosly I know the difference between the AT's with WS being maybe more survivable, or versatile. But both are squishy for the most part depending on how you build them.
Since KB is not my favorite alternative status effect, I am wondering which I may enjoy more.
Ice secondary is what I chose for Thematic Purposes, but Im begining to wonder if the blasters ability to damage is outweighed by the WS/PB versatility.
I have just been playing the butt of my Dom and my Controller so much I feel like I need to change it up a little. Something new and fresh.