City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

So does no one play KM?

Alef_infinity

By Alef_infinity,
Posted on: 2011-07-12 17:23 in Scrappers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRod View Post
Crushing Impact ...
Er.. yeah. I was just elaborating for the guy who asked about just using LOTG procs. Just listing what I had used, not meant to be a comprehensive list.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRod View Post
I have to disagree it has a PBAoE and a cone. It's not bad against multi-targets. I will agree that the constantly attacking format would be better for Brutes.
The cone most skip unless you are using it for mitigation purposes for /sr and /regen and I don't recall it's damage being much of anything. 5 ST attacks compared to 1 AoE isn't the making of a set that's good against multiple targets. Even if MA is ST based, you can at least use DT in a way to get a lot of crits. At least a stalker can use Burst in a way to make it rather nice.

I guess I don't get why scrappers wouldn't be constantly attacking like a brute would. What else is a scrapper going to do?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
The cone most skip unless you are using it for mitigation purposes for /sr and /regen and I don't recall it's damage being much of anything.
Repulsing Torrent's damage is effective. It is not great. It is lower than it should be based on its recharge, for no reason I can comprehend, but it is not low enough that you can just write it off. It's animation is too long and like all cones requires some positioning to maximize.

It is skippable. A large, ranged cone KB power is not everyone's cup of tea. That being said, you cannot judge KM's AoE output fairly by ignoring Repulsing Torrent just because some people fail to utilize it well.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I love KM! Sadly, I also wish it had alternate animations. Some kicks. I'd love a mixture of KM and MA animations!
this idea is full of win
i want glowy footed crane kick NAO!!!

Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.

screw your joke, i want "FREEM"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Repulsing Torrent's damage is effective. It is not great. It is lower than it should be based on its recharge, for no reason I can comprehend, but it is not low enough that you can just write it off. It's animation is too long and like all cones requires some positioning to maximize.

It is skippable. A large, ranged cone KB power is not everyone's cup of tea. That being said, you cannot judge KM's AoE output fairly by ignoring Repulsing Torrent just because some people fail to utilize it well.
I respectfully disagree. RT's soft control is effective, it's damage is laughable at best, especally for the animation time and endo cost. Doesn't pretty much every other 'large cone' available to scrappers outdamage it (if nothing else in DPA), or is that my imagination?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
I respectfully disagree. RT's soft control is effective, it's damage is laughable at best, especally for the animation time and endo cost. Doesn't pretty much every other 'large cone' available to scrappers outdamage it (if nothing else in DPA), or is that my imagination?
Nah, it's not you. It does feel like it's damage is poor and that's the reason why I don't even bother specing it with damage. With PowerSiphon going though it's CC capability is pretty flippin' sweet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
I respectfully disagree. RT's soft control is effective, it's damage is laughable at best, especally for the animation time and endo cost. Doesn't pretty much every other 'large cone' available to scrappers outdamage it (if nothing else in DPA), or is that my imagination?
Its damage is low, but not laughable. It does 80% of the damage of Energy Torrent (it really should deal the same damage as Energy Torrent). It is indeed weaker than all the other scrapper ranged cones (except Night Fall, which is bizarrely weak).

Repulsing Torrent deals about the same damage as a standard blaster AoE (Explosive Blast, M30 Grenade, Fire Ball (sans extra DoT)). I guess one could argue that they are laughable, many people do. I find them adequate. They ain't Throw Spines, but what is?

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Fair enough. I'm not familiar with blasters, and with that comparison it seems less undesirable I guess. Still though, it should at least do the dmg of energy torrent - that might make it almost worthwhile.

It might not do throw spines dmg, but can it cover a similar area? That might make it a little more compelling - depending on kb vs. kd. Energy torrent is KD, and with the higher dmg seems like a better choice if that pool is already in one's plans. I don't have strong hate for KB or anything, i'd just rather have KD given the choice.

But with upcoming Crowd Control for scrappers, RT is just going to look that much smaller.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
It might not do throw spines dmg, but can it cover a similar area?
This is a tough call for me. I think I prefer Throw Spines area in general, but I have gotten good use out of RT's extra range (mine is 46 feet slotted). TS is a larger area (I think, I haven't done the math, though), but RT has a longer range and is a goodly sized cone. I learned to use cones with Fire Breath on my blaster, a 40 foot long, 30 degree arc cone. RT is also 40 foot long, but has a wider 45 degree arc. TS is only 30 feet long, but its arc is a massive 90 degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
But with upcoming Crowd Control for scrappers, RT is just going to look that much smaller.
Well, CC has a 180 degree arc, and that is very nice (love it on my WP/WM tanker), but of course it only works on stuff right next to you with its 8 foot (unenhanceable) range.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
This is a tough call for me. I think I prefer Throw Spines area in general, but I have gotten good use out of RT's extra range (mine is 46 feet slotted). TS is a larger area (I think, I haven't done the math, though), but RT has a longer range and is a goodly sized cone. I learned to use cones with Fire Breath on my blaster, a 40 foot long, 30 degree arc cone. RT is also 40 foot long, but has a wider 45 degree arc. TS is only 30 feet long, but its arc is a massive 90 degrees.
I'm a huge fan of Throw Spines, enhanced for range (granted not as effective as enhancing the 40 footers) it just covers a massive area with nice dmg. RT being deeper but narrower could have compelling uses in narrow hallways (I'm looking at you Lambda collect stuff phase). Didn't know that RT was that big, which is pretty sweet admittedly.

I'd still like to see it do more dmg.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Well, CC has a 180 degree arc, and that is very nice (love it on my WP/WM tanker), but of course it only works on stuff right next to you with its 8 foot (unenhanceable) range.
Admittedly an apples/oranges thing; the dmg will be pretty ludicrous with criticals though, along with nice control. Still, in some sense a cone is a cone and I'm betting CC will be up there among the top dmg ones, possibly including the handicap for the shorter range.

Edit: Ranged cones do the the advantage of jumping above a spawn to shoot them downward - can't do that with CC as effectively, so there is that to consider.

 

Posted

Love my KM/Shield/Body mastery scrapper. I took the repulsing torrent and it works great for soft control. My PS + AAO with burst, shield charge and repulsing torrent is nice AOE. To be honest, it is one of the most fun toons I have played, and one of the most survivable. The long animation is really only noticable with the "wind up" of CS, but it hits so hard, I cant complain. My record is 5 stacked PS's as well which is nucking futz. Routinely at damage cap.

I would imagine like other posters have said that KM/Fire would actually work well too, but I just love my ridiculous amount of knockdown. It just looks and feels good.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Repulsing Torrent's damage is effective. It is not great. It is lower than it should be based on its recharge, for no reason I can comprehend, but it is not low enough that you can just write it off. It's animation is too long and like all cones requires some positioning to maximize.

It is skippable. A large, ranged cone KB power is not everyone's cup of tea. That being said, you cannot judge KM's AoE output fairly by ignoring Repulsing Torrent just because some people fail to utilize it well.
I don't know, comparing it to Shockwave it looks really bad to me.

When I played around with it back in beta, the damage felt pathetic, and did KB - in a set that wants enemies available to attack to maintain PS.

On top of that, the KB isn't even guaranteed - making a questionable mitigation power at best.


I simply can't find any reasons to like this power.

 

Posted

In fairness, shockwave is the highest DPA cone in the game and also one of the strongest control powers scrappers get access to. Nothing compares well with shockwave. I happen to agree that repulsing torrent is no more worth taking than scrapper fire breath, but even charitably judging it on its own merits can lead you to that conclusion, no need to bring shockwave into this.

 

Posted

I haven't played with Kinetic Melee yet. I have a Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper, Fire/Regen Scrapper, Claws/Super Reflexes Scrapper, Dark Melee/Shield Defense Scrapper and a Super Strength/Dark Armor Brute. So I'm kind of tired of building melee toons at the moment. But I'm thinking Kinetic Melee/Energy Armor for the next issue.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
In fairness, shockwave is the highest DPA cone in the game and also one of the strongest control powers scrappers get access to. Nothing compares well with shockwave. I happen to agree that repulsing torrent is no more worth taking than scrapper fire breath, but even charitably judging it on its own merits can lead you to that conclusion, no need to bring shockwave into this.
Fair enough, although as a ranged cone w/ KB it was really the closest power to compare it to.

For some reason the devs decided to give RT a lower damage scale, with less effective control and double the cast time.

The design of RT is mind boggling.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno View Post
I haven't played with Kinetic Melee yet. I have a Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper, Fire/Regen Scrapper, Claws/Super Reflexes Scrapper, Dark Melee/Shield Defense Scrapper and a Super Strength/Dark Armor Brute. So I'm kind of tired of building melee toons at the moment. But I'm thinking Kinetic Melee/Energy Armor for the next issue.
The look of those sets together is pure win... it could be the worst set around and still be worth playing just for the graphix... So says my kin/EA brute.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
I don't know, comparing it to Shockwave it looks really bad to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
For some reason the devs decided to give RT a lower damage scale, with less effective control and double the cast time.

The design of RT is mind boggling.
It should be clear that I completely agree with these points. While I am fine that it is less than Shockwave, I do not understand why it is that much less.
Hell, I made this post in the Scrapper Issues thread almost a year ago now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Balance: Repulsing Torrent's AoE size/damage/end/rech ratio does not match the forumla. Other similar cones with knock effects do not have this drawback.
And I followed up with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
RT is actually worse than that even. It does not have the damage debuff effect the other powers have and it also does not have the +damage portion when PS is active either. I am not sure why this range cone was so reduced by design, although the set is decently potent, so maybe it's to help the overall set balance.

RT is functional currently, but on the weak end. Just good enough for me to not want to skip it and just bad enough for me to sometimes (but rarely) feel bad about that choice.
I argued for a buff to this power when I tried KM in beta as well.

Despite that, it is not fair to completely ignore it when discussing KM's AoE potential. The damage RT does is lower than I would like, but it is not negligible. I can understand skipping it. But you cannot skip it and then complain the set lacks AoE punch, since you did that to yourself. For me, I am KM/Fire, so Burst + Burn + BA is often enough, but I still find myself doing Burst/Burn/ jumping back for RT, which frequently kills another 2 or 3 enemies, especially useful when I failed to get full spawn collapse and for those baddies who run out of the Burn patch.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I'd love a mixture of KM and MA animations!
THAT would be sweet, and probably prompt me to play my KM more. The animations are cool/kill me....I love hate them, and can't even say why!