What is the Ultimate "FREEDOM"?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
On the one hand, you can pick almost anything. On the other hand, once you're done iterating you're usually left with a ranged scrapper. Every CO character I made either became a ranged scrapper, or an unplayed character. All those choices eventually funneled into ranged attacks, maybe a PBAoE or two, a defensive passive, and a block.
My best character there was, in fact, in the above general model; but my second-best character was a very playable combination that's difficult in CoH, basically PBAoE damage + soft control + pets, with a bit of healing... I suspect a pet-optimized Crab with just the right mix of pool, patron, and Incarnate powers is now the closest we could come here, but you'd not really have your full concept until 53, where there you were pretty much rolling by the mid-late teens.

In general, one of the few things that worked well there was that if you had a cool concept, you could be into it very early; too many CoH concepts don't really come into play until much later in your career. I found it much easier to bring in existing superhero roleplaying characters from decades of P&P games and have them feel somewhat like "themselves" within hours of play, not months. Plus, personally I was more interested in exploring the space of "interesting-and-workable-enough" rather than focusing on "minmaxed"; I came up with a number of really cool concepts that were fun to play and effective *enough* for standard content, although clearly far below PvP-grade optimization monsters.

The other thing is that the types there were (by launch or a bit after, at least) arguably closer to typical comic book types; how often do "glass cannon" blaster types without significant defense of *some* sort actually become popular major characters, or really durable types with weak and short-ranged offensive powers? A much more comic-book (and comic-TV) split would be to give "heavy/melee" types Resistance, and "light/ranged" types Defense, for instance; but that's an entirely different discussion


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I think people are reading into this who "Freedom" thing. It's just a cool tag line for free to play.


 

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Originally Posted by That_Ninja View Post
I think people are reading into this who "Freedom" thing. It's just a cool tag line for free to play.
Freedom's just another word for nothin left to lose.
And nothin ain't worth nothin' but it's free.


If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.

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I've decided that my true ultimate freedom would be the freedom to discuss the ******** game industry without having to self-censor every statement and invent creative ways to discuss the work of other companies on other products in threads that are NOT compare and contrast threads, without actually talking directly about them.


 

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You know I was thinking.... we already have access to creating our own enemies in AE.

Maybe they can add a new Mastermind that can use the enemies you create? That will be a good start?


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

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Ultimate freedom?

Something along the lines of what freedom actually is: to make a decision while knowing everyfrikinthing that could affect said decision.

The ultimate freedom? Knowing.
I'll do the rest on my own, thank you very much.


As for what I'd like for freedom? More power choices. Bigger EPPs that allow you to swap more stuff around would be a good start.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That's actually one of the strongest arguments against such a system - what's the point? I'm sure everyone has the one or two things they'd like to make which the current system really can't, like Gun Fu, all elements, tank-mage and so forth, but what we have right now is... Surprisingly versatile. If you need multiple themes, you have a choice primary, secondary and epic, plus now Incarnate powers. It's not PERFECT, granted, but an Energy/Fire/Ice Blaster with a Dark Judgement and... I don't even know what the rest of the powers are... That's a pretty broad range of powers.

In my experience, almost all of the concepts people are after that seem to fall in-between ATs and powersets right now can be achieved trough the addition of new epics, patron pools, power pools and weapon/costume options. If I want, for instance, a character who uses a sword and a pair of handguns ala Dante, this can be achieved via adding a pistols epic to Scrappers/Brutes/Stalkers or a sword epic to Blasters/Defenders/Corrupters. If I want a character who uses elemental weapons, then we can add elemental weapons to the existing weapons sets. In fact, a fire sword and an ice sword for Dual Blades is already more expansive than most concepts out there.

As far as I'm concerned, free-form character building is all too often just too complicated, cumbersome and prone to making me gimp myself if I'm not Arcanaville, and it very rarely gives me anything too interesting that a class-based system like City of Heroes couldn't.
This is actually why I think city of heroes has the most capable system in place. The only thing that is limiting players in terms of concept(outside of specific game mechanics) isn't an inherent flaw in the system, but rather a simple lack of content. It's not that you can't pick any powers at random to create your own thing that's limiting, it's simply that all the options aren't there yet within the framework we have. but could be (relatively) easily added.

This also kind of represents a difference of opinion, in player type, I feel.

For me, this game is an abstraction of my idea. My fire-blasting character doesn't define his fire-blasting as only nine very specific abilities, he defines it as "Fire blasting" and uses it how he sees fit.

I think some other players, particularly proponents of an "open" system view the game as a very concrete representation of their idea. So when their fire-breathing characters have nine powers and only one of them is a cone/aoe, they feel limited.

of course there's the third that just doesn't care either way and just wants to min/max but I really don't know what to tell them except this type of game is supposed to be geared for lots of different types of players, and as stated before, full open creation ruins the diversity of player types/character types by essentially stripping it down to one big type that you have to pick the right path through. If that type of character isn't what you want, you can either

1: Shut up and play
2: go away
3: suck and die.


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Originally Posted by Premonitions View Post
For me, this game is an abstraction of my idea. My fire-blasting character doesn't define his fire-blasting as only nine very specific abilities, he defines it as "Fire blasting" and uses it how he sees fit.
This is a good way of putting it, yes. When I make characters, I aim for very general concepts, such as "hitting things with fire" or "some form of psychic powers" (Pain is a good representation of this, as is Empathy). In fact, it's very rare for me to define a character down to the last visual aspect. For instance, Sam - my namesake - was pretty much defined as "dude with sword, guns and super reflexes." I never really stopped to specifically pick out anything in particular he could do with those powers, so any combination of katana-type sword, handguns and super-fast reflexes will probably work for him.

In many ways, I tend to define my characters more by capability rather than by ability. I want a character to be very strong and have the tools to handle a wide variety of situations while still fitting within the thematic framework, say of "sword, guns, reflexes." Whether that's expressed via Golden Dragonfly being a long narrow cone, a wide shallow cone, single-target or PBAoE isn't as relevant. So long as the character fits the given themes well and without extraneous abilities and this character plays as capable as I want him to be, that's a character built to concept.

Personally, when I still did that, I was making Blasters for the simple fact that I saw them as representing enormous power. They were built for extreme damage, after all, more so than Scrappers. I never specifically designed them with the idea that they would be specifically and functionally WEAK when attacked, however. Quite the opposite. The primary reason I no longer play them isn't that I didn't have "sword blast" or Shield Defence for Blasters or anything of the sort. It was simply that I could retain the theme while picking a character that was - in my hands at least - far more capable for far less effort.

The difference, at least in my eyes, between a Fire/Fire/Flame Blaster and a Fire/Fire/Pyre Scrapper is academic. They're both powerful Fire users, they're both adept at dealing damage, they both look cool.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Narkor View Post

As for what I'd like for freedom? More power choices. Bigger EPPs that allow you to swap more stuff around would be a good start.
Yeah, cash item for having access to more Epic sets will be a good idea too.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.