Claws
SS
Sooo...benefits for either?
SS is always...well, SS. Awesome. However claws has that chainsaw effect...
Argh, tough choice!
Flip a coin?
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
Kind of a hard thing to say just flip a coin on. I'm considering going with claws but rage is always something that's been something that you can look at.
Blergh.
While SS is good, mostly cause of rage and FS, claws gets spin, at 6. Spin is beautiful on a brute.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
I have a friend who's arguing that SS is much better because of rage, KO blow, and footstomp. On the other hand from what I've seen, claws has just as good, if not better single target damage, and spin, while the range is not as wide as footstomp, seems to do just as good of a job DPS wise. The big issue would be follow up.
I'm really tempted to go with claws on this one because yes, the numbers aren't as big as KO blow for a single attack, but you can very easily make that up it seems with a good attack chain.
Claws is obscenely fast and still does crazy amounts of damage. Couple its low-end with WP's end-easiness and it can keep going forever.
Claws/WP Brutes. Like sex without the angst. It's become a mantra for me.
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
@OP: Do you want an easier time leveling or do you only care about endgame performance?
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He said that both are already in their 40s. So concerns about leveling (e.g. Spin at level 6) are moot.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
@OP: Do you want an easier time leveling or do you only care about endgame performance?
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Since you've played both sets to 40s and they both are considered very good, in different aspects, I think you are the best one to answer your own question. IO the one you like the most, like if the Rage crashes bothers you go with Claws, if you like all the Smash and the best Brute AoE (FootStomp) go SS. It's not like one of them has any real problem that one would outperfom the other in teams. For PvP, SS (longer animation times, Rage with +tohit) but since you said it's for RP reasons, I guess you'd be going against ice/emp trollers for example without optimized pvp builds so not really a difference.
SS is end hungry but you're /WP anyway.
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Originally Posted by HiddenJackal
I have a claws and SS brute, both above 40s, but I'm trying to consider which one to focus on and IO out for general purposes later. I'm having fun with both.
PVP would be a distant afterthought--I'm on Virtue and some people like to settle RP with arena matters, but I don't really have much care for that. So for the sake of a limited budget, what would get me better mileage out of the two primaries? |
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Originally Posted by Sardan
He said that both are already in their 40s. So concerns about leveling (e.g. Spin at level 6) are moot.
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Well, I think on a limited Budget that Claws/WP is probably the better way to go.
"Limited Budget" usually means less recharge, and to get at least a decent attack chain going for Claws you don't really need tons of rech (you do if you want the top chains however).
WP doesn't really care about recharge, so you can skip all of the expensive bits for the most part.
So you will have decent ST, decent AoE and low rech requirements.
On the other hand, I prefer Foot Stomp's mitigation to Shockwave, and I also find that the larger PBAoEs are generally better on Incarnate Trials where friendly fire (read KB), mob spacing, ranged enemies that stay at range and large to huge enemy hit boxes means you will be getting more out of a 15 foot radius attack (Foot Stomp) than a 7 foot radius attack (Spin) a lot of the time (but not all of the time).
Unless you have a specific concept in mind, I'd probably go with Claws/WP of the two for your particular circumstance.
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Foot Stomp is better than Spin?
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
the best Brute AoE (FootStomp) go SS
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Saying Footstomp is the best AoE is kind of more of an opinion than fact.
Spin does more damage per use, and is up more often. However, the damage is lethal which is arguably the worst damage to have in the game. I haven't taken a lethal damage toon through the incarnate trials yet, but A LOT of those robot/mech guys look like they would resist lethal damage.
Footstomp is a bit slower, does a little less damage, but the AoE has twice the radius which makes it so you can hit more targets usually. The knockdown is decent mitigation as well. Footstomp also functions as a mule for the FF +recharge proc.
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Great mitigation, more damage than Spin (a SS toon will always be using Rage), double the radius... Why do you think people farm with SS/FA? It's not exactly because of the mitigation since they use elec fences with it. Looking in a vacuum Spin might look superior but you'll be hitting less foes 90% of the time, and doing more damage (but lethal, plus no way to put a ff +rech in there).|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Foot Stomp is better than Spin?
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FS at 50 w/ 3 dam IOs + Rage - 163 damage
Spin w/ 3 dam IOs + FU - 177
Since you can double stack Rage but then there's the crash I think that you will do more damage over time than Spin+double-stacked FU unless you're always hitting the target cap with spin which is trivial with FS.
The end cost isn't hugely different and the recharge differences get closer once you put recharge there even on SOs (7 seconds versus 10 with 3 rech IOs). So yes, FS is better imo, Spin would be my second though because Tremor (the other with the huge radius) sucks so hard it's not funny, even with BU.
Funny thing is, Spin does a lot of damage and the whirling attacks (plus typhoon's edge) are only a little better than Tremor's sucky damage. FSC and Burst are the exceptions, FSC having a 10' radius but 20s rech like FS (and no mitigation), and Burst doing a little more with KD but small radius and 15s rech, 1s more than Spin. And wow Typhoon sucks, it does less damage than Spine Burst (looking at scrappers) and way less than the Katana PbAoE. Yeah combos and stuff but I think it deserved a bit more (same for whirling xxx's on brutes)
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Do those numbers take into account the recharge differences (I can't tell, I'm not being snarky)?
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
FS at 50 w/ 3 dam IOs + Rage - 163 damage
Spin w/ 3 dam IOs + FU - 177 |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
One thing in favor of SS is that it's easier to use epic/patron attacks since they don't have the redraw issue.
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Nope but it's 3 seconds of difference with a SO'ed build and the gap will be less with a high end build. Also, the fact that 2xRage gives you way more damage than 2xFU, besides Rage having a crash, makes calculations hard. I think SS would have the edge in normal play because of the radius, I often hit mobs I didn't think I'd hit with FS.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Do those numbers take into account the recharge differences (I can't tell, I'm not being snarky)?
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Bear in mind, I'm not hating on Claws, Spin is wonderful, after I looked at it I asked myself how could all the other AoEs be so lame like I wrote on my last post.
I find leveling SS a chore, I have one SS/FA at 38 (the one I plan to get all the accos and do decent stuff) and another at 50 that was self PL'ed to be an agricultural tool
. Claws is much more fun imo, since even my 38 ss/fa is boring because besides being partly IO'ed already he still has to use boxing sometimes, my So'ed Claws/SR scrapper has a full attack chain at 30 (actually my fav Brute primary is SM which sucks for AoE damage but can tank since low levels due to Fault, besides feeling smashier than SS IMO, but I digress). I guess that also answers the OP's question, on a limited budget I find claws/wp would be better and WAY less boring. My Claws/Dark Brute started to be fun at 10 (when I got the mez shield, those Praetorian mobs are tough, I'm new to GR).Well speaking of farming, I guess you could take a Claws/ and SS/ to an ambush farm and compare the times using only the two Aoes we're talking about, since in ambush farms you'll likely hit the target cap or close with Spin all the time. I think people like SS/Fire more on these farms mostly because of double rage, but my guess is that claws/fire would be a close second, some people swear by elec/fire but I find elec kinda meh (I'm putting /fire as a secondry when talking about farms because if you're farming Burn and FE help a ton, hell I started farming frontload with my ss/fire at 32 and he only had acc and endreds, insps rain from the sky and popping reds+fury+damage aura+burn made me able to farm that at +3/x8 with bosses as long as I had at least 30% def from purps because despite the 90% fire resist there are so many attacks coming you can faceplant if you dont pay attention).
I've run about 6-7 Brutes to 50 (2 were SS/FA and SS/ELA) and my Claws/WP Brute was the fastest leveling one by far.
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My Claws/WP Brute is my favorite, but I do have a WP/SS Tanker that's very nice. <.<
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Originally Posted by Matt_B
I've run about 6-7 Brutes to 50 (2 were SS/FA and SS/ELA) and my Claws/WP Brute was the fastest leveling one by far.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
OP, although you've played them both to 40 by now (and as stated before) and no one but you will can decide which one you like better I will offer my 2 cents. I'm not one to get into the math of the game/game mechanics so I won't number crunch but from what I've read in the past the damage difference between double stacked Rage FS and double stacked FU Spin is pretty trivial even if you're at the target cap for both AoEs (even though in end game content you usually are not at the target cap if you're not doing any solo or duo runs). I saw Billz break it down in a post before as a reference, Spin's damage was a little higher, not taking into account the fact that it was lethal. Now FS is still probably better due to it's mitigation purposes but since you're /WP you're gonna be pretty damn sturdy if you get 32.5% defense to all types so mitigation really shouldn't bother you. So basically it will come down to your personal tastes (whether you like watching yourself slice, slash, and spin enemies into oblivion or smashing their heads and the ground barbarically) and budget. On a lower budget since Claws and WP don't need much +recharge then I'd say claws. Can't speak for your personal tastes but as for mine, I'd go with claws.
I have a claws and SS brute, both above 40s, but I'm trying to consider which one to focus on and IO out for general purposes later. I'm having fun with both.
PVP would be a distant afterthought--I'm on Virtue and some people like to settle RP with arena matters, but I don't really have much care for that.
So for the sake of a limited budget, what would get me better mileage out of the two primaries?