Balancing act... Advice wanted...


Ankylosaur

 

Posted

So, I created an arc around the Coralax lore. It's a little bit of a story of redemption, has a new angle on their machinations, and is targetted at the blue side to bring some of the isles content to heroes.

I designed it to be soloable, as I figure most AE players are solo players. So, even though the arc has (by necessity) EBs and AVs, I try to balance them with powerful allies. But frankly I have found it pretty tricky to balance. I have an EB and an AV as allies of the hero in the final mission, and they cannot take the AV on their own. Meanwhile, picking up these two allies renders the rest of the mission a bit underchallenging.

Have others successfully accomodated AVs in their missions for soloers?

I also tried making some custom Coralax to spice up the mob, but realized they needed some balancing too. I was wanting to use hard for the 100% rating but was soon worrying they were overpowered. Is there a general guideline of standard or hard when choosing powers, or does it always bear lots of testing?

If anyone wants to see this in action, it is 183832, save the diver, save the world. (it has an old publish date as I have just returned to coh and dusted this off) advice and feedback are most welcome...


Try out my AE Arcs! (solo friendly, canon related, & some contest winners)
| #529832 Rularularian - Heroic - 41-54 | #515140 The Serpent Beyond the Horizon - Heroic - 46-52 | #183832 Save the Diver, Save the World - Vigilante - 25-30 | #245534 Condemning Croatoa - Villainous - 25-33 | #540585 Robolution - Villainous - 25-34 |

 

Posted

Well, there's something you need to know regarding Bosses, EBs, and AVs: A player can set themselves to not encounter Bosses or AVs solo, which drops these critters one rank. Therefore, bosses are LTs, EBs become bosses, and AVs become EBs. However, they can also set themselves to, say, not encounter Bosses, but to have AVs appear at full power.

So there's a bunch of different things that can happen with allies. My advice is, unless you're using an existing AV that doesn't have any lower-ranked alternatives and that you cannot replicate in the custom critter designer, to just stick with Bosses and EBs. I know, you want your story to feel epic and the "best" way to do that and challenge a player is to pit them against impossible odds. But if it's impossible, then no one will want to play it. So then you need to put in allies, who suck away all sense of challenge. Which is why you make your end boss an EB: A cautious player will already have Bosses OFF, which will downgrade the EB into something manageable, but still tough.

And if you're still stuck using an AV, you have two options: use a "Boss Signature pet" (which are specifically balanced around helping a solo player; you may have to "buy" these from an AE ticket vendor), or give a Custom ally boss either a good armor set or a good debuff set, either way with few attacks. That way your helper is helping by either soaking up damage or making the fight easier while allowing the player to pummel the foe and not feel like they're being out-done by an AI.


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

Some great advice here, thanks!

Unfortunately it is a standard AV that has no EB version. I had noticed that he scaled to an EB when testing. I went to the field analyst and looked over these new difficulty settings you mentioned. So that at least explained why

This av is tough. He summons bosses and LTs to help him, and that's on a recharge which is frequent enough that if you are slow about taking him down, he does it again. On top of that he is psi, so his attacks hurt most easily. So, one of the allies is an EB tanker to help control the mob-I have customized her with just a few of her weaker attacks. I think maybe I should make those even fewer, or figure out a way to make them more debuffy than they are (she is dark/dark)...

In a different arc, where I have all custom folk as the main enemies, I made them all hard/hard bosses to keep them challenging but achievable. I guess that bears more testing too.

Thanks again for the advice--it's really helpful. If there is a guide about balancing custom mobs, with the standard or hard or extreme settings, I'd appreciate a pointer to it.


Try out my AE Arcs! (solo friendly, canon related, & some contest winners)
| #529832 Rularularian - Heroic - 41-54 | #515140 The Serpent Beyond the Horizon - Heroic - 46-52 | #183832 Save the Diver, Save the World - Vigilante - 25-30 | #245534 Condemning Croatoa - Villainous - 25-33 | #540585 Robolution - Villainous - 25-34 |

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankylosaur View Post
If there is a guide about balancing custom mobs, with the standard or hard or extreme settings, I'd appreciate a pointer to it.
While it could possibly stand a small tweak here or there, this guide is pretty useful: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3127914 A few things I slightly disagree with here or there (status protection isn't bad if it's uncommon) but it's a very good guideline.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
Well, there's something you need to know regarding Bosses, EBs, and AVs: A player can set themselves to not encounter Bosses or AVs solo, which drops these critters one rank. Therefore, bosses are LTs, EBs become bosses, and AVs become EBs. However, they can also set themselves to, say, not encounter Bosses, but to have AVs appear at full power.
Minor correction: There is no way to avoid EBs. Bosses can be scaled to Lts, and AVs to EBs, but EBs will always be EBs.


@Roderick

 

Posted

In my opinion, you'd be better off creating a custom EB/AV that you can tweak to balance against a solo player. I've yet to run a mission that included an EB helper where I wasn't left feeling like some guy who decided to throw a towel around my neck and go out and play super-hero in comparison.


@Doctor Gemini

Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.

 

Posted

Create sudden AV ambushes. Players love those.


 

Posted

So, I tested the final fight with a PB and got some good results. Even with my EB and AV allies, only 1 in 5 times were the allies able to take down the AV without my help. So the key thing here is that my character's contribution is usually critical to success.

I chose to use a PB (human form) because he is ok at damage (but a scrapper or blaster would do more) has no status protection, and minimal mob control. I figure the buffs/debuffs of controllers and defenders could be used on the enemy / allies to turn things in their favor.

To help minimize the I-have-badass-ally-and-can-just-kite-her-around problem, I think I will make some medium or hard patrols and also guards on the second ally rescue. I also made the map smaller than the original i had so it does not go on too long. (plus I dislike the map I "should" use, the cave of the shaper.)

Now, I just need to read through the balancing guide for my custom Coralax, and I think I should be able to put out a handyman beacon...

Thanks all for your help and advice!


Try out my AE Arcs! (solo friendly, canon related, & some contest winners)
| #529832 Rularularian - Heroic - 41-54 | #515140 The Serpent Beyond the Horizon - Heroic - 46-52 | #183832 Save the Diver, Save the World - Vigilante - 25-30 | #245534 Condemning Croatoa - Villainous - 25-33 | #540585 Robolution - Villainous - 25-34 |

 

Posted

A little late, but here's my 2 inf on how I usually try to balance things:

* No EBs in an arc that is meant for players under level 12.
* No AVs in an arc that is meant for players under level 22.
* Avoid giving godmode powers (Instant Healing, Unstoppable, Elude, etc.) to EBs or AVs.
* Add allies to help against AVs; usually boss or lieutenant level. (EB or AV allies are usually too powerful.)
* Given the choice, err on the side of making it too easy, in preference to making it too hard. (Too hard might mean the player can't complete your story at all, which is frustrating.)
* Playtest! A lot! With alts of different archetypes!

I confess I don't always follow these guidelines, myself. But it's a starting point.


@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"

 

Posted

NPC allies should only be present when the story demands. Adding them to compensate for Nintendo Hard gameplay means you've made two mistakes instead of one.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
Minor correction: There is no way to avoid EBs. Bosses can be scaled to Lts, and AVs to EBs, but EBs will always be EBs.
Really? I coulda sworn i've seen an EB get downgraded before. I apologize for the misinformation!


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

All of my allies are integral to the story--so no worries there.

As to customizing the mobs, I'm a bit unsure if it's really necessary for my arc. The Coralax hybrid stance and gait is non-standard, so my custom mobs just don't look or feel authentic enough.

I have several mobs (the idea being these are "pure" coralax--non-hybrids). They still need some tweaking, but the arc is currently published with them. I am just not sure the little bit of variety they bring is important...

So the current balancing act is getting the balance right between the importance of unique mobs vs. ones that feel authentic.


Try out my AE Arcs! (solo friendly, canon related, & some contest winners)
| #529832 Rularularian - Heroic - 41-54 | #515140 The Serpent Beyond the Horizon - Heroic - 46-52 | #183832 Save the Diver, Save the World - Vigilante - 25-30 | #245534 Condemning Croatoa - Villainous - 25-33 | #540585 Robolution - Villainous - 25-34 |

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
Really? I coulda sworn i've seen an EB get downgraded before. I apologize for the misinformation!
I ran an AE mission recently that warned me about a nasty EB fight. He turned out to be a boss--so I guess sometimes they scale.


Try out my AE Arcs! (solo friendly, canon related, & some contest winners)
| #529832 Rularularian - Heroic - 41-54 | #515140 The Serpent Beyond the Horizon - Heroic - 46-52 | #183832 Save the Diver, Save the World - Vigilante - 25-30 | #245534 Condemning Croatoa - Villainous - 25-33 | #540585 Robolution - Villainous - 25-34 |