Too much repeat Gameplay

The forum section says "Discuss gameplay / technical issues or bugs here!" This is not a "Player Suggestion" and General Discussion is basically anything that doesn't fit anywhere else. The entire post is dedicated to problems with repeat gameplay which I feel is an issue for the developers to look at and thus it belongs here.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

No, it does not. White Hot Flash was right about where it belongs. This is not a technical issue or system working incorrectly. It's something that *YOU* don't like.

No one is limiting you to those two trials but YOU. There is still plenty of other content. I'm fairly sure they added it so that shards drop from normal content.

You already stated you have content you haven't finished on your first 50. Nothing is stopping you from finishing that content but YOU. Perhaps if you run some of that content you might get some of those shards you seem to want so badly.

ADHD is in fact a disability, one of which I do not have but my older brother does. This means that one can not sit still or pay attention to things for any longer than 2 min. Your comment is both inaccurate and offensive.

Did you even read my original post or the information about the rewards in trials for that matter? I'm not complaining about Shard drops.

It looks like you've at least schemed threw it but you missed the point of the topic by a mile. Incarnate Threads only drop regularly during incarnate Trials. You can get 2 Threads, but ONLY two threads at the end of both Tin Mage and Apex TFs which is a major rip off sense they're allot more work for less of a reward. No other content in the entire game will ever drop Threads so you are REQUIRED to do the Trials REPEATEDLY.

This is not a simple "I don't like this and so I don't want to do it" in fact I actually like the trials, when I'm not constantly crashing from them. And I've repeated them countless times over the course of 2 weeks before I finally went "I really wish I could do something else right now." but I can't do something else because there's nothing else to do.

I actually admitted in my first post that yes there is other content I could do but if I want rewards I have to do trials. There's no other options for reward but repeating trials. It's a choice between repeat content with needed rewards or new content with no rewards at all. Thus problem not in chair, problem in game.

This is actually in the games design, it has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the game only being programed to give me threads if I do Trials.

Please please PLEASE try to ACTUALLY read what the problem ACTUALLY is before you ASSUME something TOTALLY the opposite.

My post was neither, and you're just trying to stir up drama because you want to get your way. I know full-well what living with ADHD is like. I often spend my weekends taking care of my neighbor's teenage ADHD son, and it can definitely be a hassle. But having ADHD isn't an insult unless you take it as such, and my point still stands: it's not up to the developers to cater to it.

Those two sentences contradict each other.

They're upping the reward for Apex/Tin Mage with the launch of Issue 20.5 today. I think it's going up to 10 Threads.

--yes it is-- Yes there is, but--wait a second... --oh, you were just spouting hyperbole! Whew, glad I figured that out, because it wasn't obvious at all-- EVERY OTHER PIECE OF CONTENT IN THIS GAME OFFERS REWARDS. Inf, recipe drops, experience, badges... you can get ALL of these elsewhere in the game. You don't NEED Incarnate boosts to play the game. A lot of people argue that they trivialize preexisting content. In fact, the level shifts you get by doing the iTrials aren't even used outside of the iTrials, so you can stop at a T3 Alpha, which is easily gained doing a few high level TFs and one Weekly Strike Target and nobody would really ever notice the difference.

The problem is that you're not willing to listen to anybody else, because you apparently know better than everyone else. The problem is that you expect the rewards to be given to you because you don't want to do the content associated with them. The problem is that you expect to get all the shinies quickly.

The point was NEVER to grind trials over and over for two weeks so you could max out all your slots on one guy. The POINT was that you should take the 4+ months between issues and work up to the new rewards over time, not just unlock and slot everything in a couple days. The fact that the developers made it possible to do so shows that they're sympathetic to your "gotta have it nao!" mindset, but there's a limit to how far they're willing to bend for that.

You're basically telling them you don't want the filet mignon they handed you because it's not on a golden plate and smothered with caviar.

And again, one final time: THIS THREAD DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS SECTION OF THE FORUMS. Ask a moderator to move it to the City Life or Player Questions sections.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

And there's a 4th one in I21 - they're adding more as soon they create them, which is why we're getting this "half Issue" today.

Obviously when content is added to the game, the amount of content doesn't decrease. Do not confuse "less content" with "you choosing to do less content". These are two entirely separate affairs, and one is completely in your hands. All the level 50 content there was prior to issue 20 is still there.

I'm doing no such thing. You stated that ADHD wasn't a legitimate disability and if you've dealt with someone who has it as you claim you should know it is. Also you're right that actually having ADHD isn't an insult but you were obviously accused me of being ADHD as a means of insulting me which is not only offensive to me but to any person who actually is ADHD. I'm not going to sit here and argue this with you any further.

The first sentence is "Incarnate Threads only drop in Incarnate Trials" The second sentence is "No other content will ever drop threads" that's not a contradiction in any way shape or form.

I'm not talking about Inf, recipes, experience, or badges, I'm talking about THREADS. I don't even use recipes, I just sell them. Experience? Why would you even bring that up? You know I'm talking about incarnate trials, sure you must realize that you need to be level 50 to do them. Nothing gives experience for me anymore, I'm already level 50! But wait there's Incarnate XP that unlocks the Interface, Judgement, Destiny, and Lore slots, maybe you were talking about that but oh wait you can only get that in the incarnate trials. Badges? Aside from Accolades I don't care about the stupid badges.

Again you assume things about me that are totally WRONG. It was stated in the first post that people can get SHARDS threw normal content without doing TFs, it takes longer but at least it's POSSIBLE. THREADS on the other hand YOU CAN ONLY GET IN THE TRIALS! It is NOT possible to get incarnate THREADS if you do not do trials! Why is this so hard to understand? I don't want threads simply handed to me I want an alternative means to get them without having to repeat content I've already done hundreds of times. Why don't you try actually reading the original post instead of assuming you know anything about a random stranger you met on the internet?

Now that's what a contradiction looks like.

For one thing, I play about 15 different characters, again this was stated in my original post, try reading it. For another I am working up to new rewards over time not just in a couple of days. And finally I don't think it's even possible to work up to new rewards in a couple of days.

Anyway my post was never even about the speed at which rewards are earned, there isn't a single comment about how fast rewards drop anywhere in my original post, YOU are the one who brought it up. My post was only as the title states about "REPEAT GAME PLAY" I don't care how fast the rewards drop, I think they drop just fine as it is. My complaint is that there isn't enough content dropping the rewards to unlock anything without doing it over and over again.

You seem to be constantly missing the point of this topic that it's not about getting rewards faster, it's about getting more content with rewards. You have a choice of the content you want to do for Shards, the same can not be said for Threads, and THAT is what I want to change.

What choose? Lets put it this way. Why do you have jobs? Because you get paid with money. But you don't have to have jobs you "choose" to work? But if I don't work I can't afford food, or shelter, or playing this game. But you don't need money to survive, there are plenty of homeless shelters you can go to, money just help you afford the luxuries that you're use to.

Simply put they're dangling a carrot in front of me and you're expecting me not to eat it. People go where the rewards are, it's that simple. Literally every level 50 in the game right now is entirely focused on the two trials because there are no other ways to get Threads.

Put the threads in the normal game, make them harder to get like the shards are but just put them in the normal game. That's all I'm asking, I can't make this any simpler than that.

You aren't? At the beginning of your first post you lamented that you couldn't get people to run the WST's, which drop shards BTW, because, in their words, "threads are allot (sic) easier to get than shards". If this has nothing to do with shards, why bring them up? Yes, I read your post. I had to read through it more than once due to the spelling errors to make sure I understood what you are saying.

No, I didn't "schemed threw" it, nor did I skim through it. As I stated previously, I read it more than once to make sure I understood what you were saying, which wouldn't have been necessary if you hadn't been spelling words wrong or using the wrong word entirely.

Yes, there is something else to do. The only one forcing you to do the trials is you. There is plenty of other content you can do, which you've already stated. Oh look, here it is in your own words, at the start of the paragraph that ended with you stating there is nothing else to do.

Problem is definitely in chair. Absolutely nothing in the game is forcing you or requiring you to do the trials. It is your own desire to reap the rewards that are available through those trials that is at work there. For several years, the only way you could get a Hami-O was by participating in a Hami raid, and the only way to get a Titan-O was to run Eden trial. That didn't mean people were required to do that content. They ran the content IF they wanted that type of reward. The rewards weren't and still aren't required. Same with Vanguard Merits. Nothing requires you to run the content that generates those rewards. It's all personal choice.

The game design has always had specific rewards tied to specific actions or content. If you want those rewards, you participate in the content.

If you don't like running the content to continue to get those rewards, don't run it. But don't expect them to change the game design to meet your selfish wants.

And no, this still doesn't belong in this forum section.

Well you didn't understand but given your explanation here that seems to be more my fault. I'll try to clear things up here. And BTW thank you for actually explaining my mistakes in clarity rather than just insulting me like some in here have done. :P

The reason I brought up shard drops is because Shards can used for the Alpha Slot, and the Alpha Slot ONLY. I like to use them for my Alpha Slot because it gives me some extra content I can do provided I can find enough other people who are also interested in Shards. More specifically I want to run the WST for the Notice of the Well as I do other things for shards as well provided I have time to do anything else. Typically though it's been such that I have very little time to do anything else because I waist my whole day with trials and standing around for hours trying to get a TF together. Though more recently it seems to be more dependent on just what the TF of the week is as to weather or not people actually want to do it. Lord Recluse seemed to be very active last week which was good because two of my characters last week were also in need of the Marshal Accolade. But the week before getting a Barracuda together was a major pain.

Anyway, that being said, Threads can be used for ALL 5 incarnate slots making it as such that if one choose to one could slot all 5 incarnate slots without earning a single Shard. The more people realize this the less people there are to get shards. And people's reasoning for doing threads instead of shards is "because threads are easier to get" but I don't want to do threads when I don't have to. I'm only doing Trials for the 4 slots to which they were required and still trying to shard for the Alpha.

People have been coming to the unfounded assumption that I want easy rewards but if that were the case why would I be complaining about the trials directly after talking about Shards? Threads are already easy to get and yet I'm trying to avoid them as much as possible.

Yeah I know my spelling sucks and believe it or not it could of been allot worse. That was done with a spell check program which we all know doesn't work all that well for words that are spelled correctly but aren't the correct word to be used in that sentence. (Not knowing the difference between there and their for example) At least I'm trying to correct my spelling mistakes.

No, there isn't something else to do. The only thing forcing me to do the trials is the fact that I can't get threads anywhere else in the game. There's plenty of other content I could do which I've already stated DOES NOT REWARD THREADS. Oh look, here it is in my own words, at the start of the paragraph that ended with me stating there is nothing else to do TO GET THREADS.

Problem is definitely in game. Threads are forcing me and requiring me to do the trials. And your examples are invalid because the rewards you mentioned are not required to advance in the game. Being forced to do specific content to get threads would be like being forced to do specific content to earn XP all the way from 1 to 50. The only thing you're really forced to do at level one is the tutorial and that's only if you've never done it before after that you have the option to skip it. Now imagine that at level 1 you had all of two missions that gave XP and everything else in the game didn't give rewards at all. That's what incarnate trials are. That's what I am complaining about. Incarnate trials are in fact, by design, limiting the amount of content I have access to in order to get the rewards needed to advance in the game.

Shards I can already get anywhere in the game, I have a choice of what I want to do in order to obtain my shards. This is how Threads should work but they don't, they limit me to doing these trials weather or not I actually want to do them.

HO's as much as I love having a few HO's myself, they don't add anything new to my character, there's no advancement. Threads actually help to unlock new powers and abilities that I didn't already have. They even add level shifts to my character. This is much more than just a simple enhancement of something I already have, it's something entirely new.

Again, the rewards have not been to advance in the game. They have been for badges and things that you don't need to advance in the game. Again, imagine being a level 1 and only being able to get XP for two missions and having to repeat the same two missions over and over again.

The game design has always been about CHOICE. The choice to make whatever character you want, the choice to make your own missions, the choice to do whatever content you choose to do without limiting how you advance in the game. This can even be seen with Incarnate Shards. You are not required to the WST to get shards, that is your own choice, Shards will drop regardless of whatever content you are doing. I can whatever I want and still be able to upgrade my Alpha Slot but ONLY my Alpha Slot.

With Threads there is no choice. You can't use Shards to upgrade Interface, Destiny, Judgment, or Lore, you have to have Threads. You can't get threads unless you do Trials. This removes the choice from the player. If I could get Threads in other content or had any other choice to unlock and slot the other 4 slots I wouldn't be here complaining about the lack of content to do that. There is no choice because there is not other content to get Threads. I'm forced to do these two trials.

And besides I wouldn't mind being limited to trials if there were more of them. But I also understand that some people CAN'T do them because of the lag and continued crashing. Even on my computer this is annoying, I could imagine some people may not be able to load into the trials at all and there for wouldn't be able to participate in that content even if they wanted to. There has to be alternative content so that everyone has access to the same rewards. This is why we got Statesman and Lord Recluse as an alternative to the Hamidon raids because some people can't do Hamidon raids. They simply crash the moment they enter the zone. Statesman TF gives an alternative to people that can't handle the Hive.

Trials have no alternative. You have to do trials. There is no choice. There should be a choice because not everyone can do them and not everyone wants to do them, but everyone wants the rewards. I'm not asking for the rewards to be given easily, just that there be options to get them. I'm asking for a choice which currently does NOT exist.

If the problem were in chair and not in game that would mean there was already ways to get threads without doing repeated content. That would mean I only wanted Threads to drop faster without doing Trials. But they can't drop faster because they don't drop at all. Double of nothing is still nothing.

There is nothing selfish about wanting alternative content for EVERYONE, that includes YOU. If YOU don't care about advancing in the game and getting threads then YOU don't have to use them. But that doesn't mean that everyone else in the game that wants them has to suffer threw limited game content just because YOU don't care.

And YES, this does belong in this forum section. It doesn't belong in player help because I'm not asking for player help. It belongs here because it has everything to do with improving the quality of life in game play for everyone not just me. I have a friend in the game who CAN'T EVEN DO THE TRIALS because her computer CAN'T HANDLE THE GRAPHICS. She can barely handle being on a team of 8 players let alone being in a league with 16 or more. She wants to get threads so that she can advance further in the game but she can't even participate in the existing content. And you're calling me selfish? Again this was already explained in my original post.

This friend I speak of has unlocked and slotted her Alpha Slot using the alternative content available to get Shards, no TFs. She had that option open from the beginning. All I'm asking is that the same option be given to the other 4 slots. I doubt that she's the only one in the game like that, she's just the only one I play with regularly.

Weather you want to admit it or not THIS IS A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT made not only by myself but others as well for different reasons. This would in fact improve the quality of life for everyone in the game not just me.

Why do people even continue to argue with me on this stuff. This has being going on for 7 years and every time I suggested a change be made to the game I get these hate messages and every time the changes have been made to the game. Going Rouge is a perfect example, if you look back you'll see a topic where I had first suggested the idea nearly a year, possibly 2 years before it was ever announced and that topic is just full of people insulting me, complaining about "balance issues" and claiming it would never happen but here we are. Another of my ideas that's in the game right now is power customization. People claimed it was impossible to do but in fact it was just very complicated and took a long time to implement. Doppelgangers, again, I made that suggestion years before it made it into the game and got lots of negative feedback on the forums from it. I was right and they were all wrong.

How many times do I have to post a suggestion to improve the game play and have it be implemented before people stop trying to argue with me and actually hold a civilized conversation? Seriously like 90% of every suggestion I've ever made on the forums has actually been implemented in the game and 100% of the comments on every one of them has been negative.

Oh I might also add that the only suggestions I've made that haven't been implemented in game are Praetorian Arachnos with the exception of Ghost Widow. A way to completely get rid of the Arachnos Uniform on the VEATs. And color names on the costume editor for the color blind.

The only reason I bring any of this up is to help you understand something. The reason my ideas have been implemented so often is because I speak for the majority of the player base not just myself. The forums do not even make up the majority of the player base as most players never even get involved on the forums. I speak to them in game before I even bother posting this stuff and they have civilized conversations with me telling me what they like and don't like about the game and that helps to influence my ideas before I even come and post it here.

^This. I was thinking this the whole time reading this thread. And since Shards drop for an Alpha unlocked character doing any content, the ENTIRE GAME can be used as content to get all incarnate abilities, just for the price of completing Mender Ramiel's story arc.

Uh huh... do the maths on this, and tell me, just how long is it going to take to unlock say... T2, in each slot, if done purely by shards and alpha salvage?

You're right, there is a option of incarnate progression outside of the trials. But it is not a very friendly one.

There's an option to level to 50 with only street sweeping too, but it's not as friendly as using missions

One thing I hate about this particular argument is that many people seem to express is at "either/or".

Me, I do a trial every now and then when I feel like it, and the rest of the time I run "normal" missions (Tips, Radio, Ourob'd Story Arcs, TF's every once in a while). So, yeah, someone avoiding the trials completely would take forever to unlock things. But I'm not burned out on trials right now because I don't exclusively do them. I supplement them with other content. And I don't think the progress is too slow. Slower than doing Trial after Trial after Trial, sure, but why would I want to do that when there's all this other content available to me that still allows me to make progress (albeit slow progress) on advancing my incarnate abilities?

What they said.

Here's the math for you in case you don't know.

It takes 4 Shards to make one common Incarnate Component for the Alpha Slot. (12 shards to create a T1 ability)

It takes 20 Threads to make one common Incarnate Component for any of the 5 slots. (60 Threads to create a T1 ability)

Obviously Threads drop more often to compensate for the fact that it takes more of them to create anything but they only drop during trials. Now given the drop ratio of each in order for the Shards to Threads conversion to be worth while you should be able to covert 1 Shard into 5 Threads. But no that's not how it works at all. I'm logging on right now so I can get the numbers for this...

Upgrade 10 incarnate Shards into 10 Incarnate Threads ONCE EVERY 20 HOURS.

Upgrade 10 incarnate Shards into 5 Incarnate Threads as many times as you want.

Break Down Notice of the Well into 40 incarnate threads. And if you're not doing the WST the Notice of the Well cost 64 Shards for 4 common Incarnate components, Another 32 Shards to upgrade them into Uncommon Components, and another 40 Shards to upgrade all of them into 1 Notice of the Well. That's a total of 176 Shards to make only 40 Threads.

Break down Favor of the Well into 100 Incarnate Threads. Again if you're not WST the Favor of the Well costs 2 Notice of the Well and 32 Incarnate Shards adding up to a total of 384 Shards for only 100 Threads.

Quick recap

Upgrade Value
10 Shards = 10 Threads
Actual Value
2 Shards = 10 Threads
10 Shards = 50 Threads
Amount you're being ripped off
8 Shards Paid for 40 Threads not received

Upgrade Value
10 Shards = 5 Threads
Actual Value
1 Shard = 5 Threads
10 Shards = 50 Threads
Amount you're being ripped off
9 Shards paid for 45 Threads not received

Upgrade Value
176 Shards = 40 Threads
Actual Value
8 Shards = 40 Threads
176 Shards = 880 Threads
Amount you're being ripped off
168 Shards paid for 840 Threads not received

Upgrade Value
384 Shards = 100 Threads
Actual Value
20 Shards = 100 Threads
384 Shards = 1,920 Threads
Amount you're being ripped off
364 Shards paid for 1,820 Threads not received

Would you be willing go into a bank to exchange real life money at this exchange rate? It would be equivalent of giving a bank $10,000 in exchange for only $1 in return. You just gave up buying a house for a pack of gum!