Why fire?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I logged into the game a little earlier today to see if I had any tickets to claim. I didn't, but while in, I started looking through the first few pages of arcs.

I saw a Crey's Fire Cyborgs in Hall of Fame which I assume is a fire farm since other obvious farms reference it in their description.

I saw about a dozen obvious fire farms within the first four pages of arcs, most of them on page 4.

I'm not looking to raise the old farms vs. no farms argument; that's not getting settled soon, regardless of how I feel about it. What I'm puzzled about is WHY fire? Why are all these farms fire-based and nothing else? I'm guessing that fire-attacks are potentially highly unbalanced when compared to resists?


I'm out of signature space! Arcs by Tubbius of Justice are HERE: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218177

 

Posted

Because fiery aura gives a huge boost to damage and also caps fire res. Defense isn't as important when you can load up on purples (which are 2.5x better than oranges) beforehand, so defense sets are out, and the other resist sets only have maybe a damaging aura and a recharge boost compared to FA's damaging aura, Burn, and FE.

It's possible to make an energy or theoretically a dark farm but it's not optimal and the whole point of farms is to get the max xp or tickets/second so...


 

Posted

1 > Fire Tanks have good Fire Resist
2 > Fire Damage vs Regen is easy
3 > Fire Damage from enemies has no side effects (Slow, -To Hit, Stun, etc)
4 > Maximum gain


 

Posted

What we really need (not just in A/E, but overall) is a Threat or Challenge rating... something to do a quick comparision between player and enemy and reward accordingly... this and so many things would go away... IMO.


 

Posted

The Brute forum is actually the only AT board I've never been in but it's pretty easy to note that even without slotting you can get 67.5% damage resistance to fire.

@SupaFreak: A "true" threat assessment would be good in theory but is probably a calculation nightmare since it'll fluctuate massively due to a number of variables.


 

Posted

Yea, a "true" threat assessment would be a calculation nightmare...

In theory it would be nice... but the more I think about everything that'd need to be factored in, it'd be a huge undertaking.

Maybe at least a Primary vs Secondary matchup tho... *shrug* ... dunno


 

Posted

In a sense, the fire farms are a good thing for a very subtle reason: if they are *this* prevalent, it suggests the farmers out there haven't come up with anything better to exploit. To be honest, the idea of filling a custom group with nothing but comm officers (or immunes surgeons before that), or filling maps with mastermind "bosses" (which were really no stronger that lt's but gave boss-class XP) always struck me as somewhat clever. Unethical, but clever. (Hey, I loathe cheating and cheaters, but that doesn't stop me from being able to recognize when the method of the cheating is somewhat clever.)

On the other hand, the concept of a fire farm is so stupidly obvious that it really doesn't require any cleverness, creativity, or intelligence to think up. Heck, the entire time I was leveling up Pro Payne, it was really obvious to me that if I wanted to be really lame about it and just get him to 50 ASAP, all I had to do is fill a huge map with a bunch of mobs that do fire damage and basically have no real defense. I would have felt like a lazy slob for doing it, but I did know it was an option.

What I'm interested in seeing is if the developers ever do something about this. While I doubt it (I think they've given up on trying to do anything about the farms, and their disgust with the phenomenon has probably led them to ignore AE completely), I wouldn't be totally surprised if one day the alpha values for every fire-related power you can give to a custom mob would be reset to 0.


M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulomb2 View Post
In a sense, the fire farms are a good thing for a very subtle reason: if they are *this* prevalent, it suggests the farmers out there haven't come up with anything better to exploit. To be honest, the idea of filling a custom group with nothing but comm officers (or immunes surgeons before that), or filling maps with mastermind "bosses" (which were really no stronger that lt's but gave boss-class XP) always struck me as somewhat clever. Unethical, but clever. (Hey, I loathe cheating and cheaters, but that doesn't stop me from being able to recognize when the method of the cheating is somewhat clever.)

On the other hand, the concept of a fire farm is so stupidly obvious that it really doesn't require any cleverness, creativity, or intelligence to think up. Heck, the entire time I was leveling up Pro Payne, it was really obvious to me that if I wanted to be really lame about it and just get him to 50 ASAP, all I had to do is fill a huge map with a bunch of mobs that do fire damage and basically have no real defense. I would have felt like a lazy slob for doing it, but I did know it was an option.

What I'm interested in seeing is if the developers ever do something about this. While I doubt it (I think they've given up on trying to do anything about the farms, and their disgust with the phenomenon has probably led them to ignore AE completely), I wouldn't be totally surprised if one day the alpha values for every fire-related power you can give to a custom mob would be reset to 0.
That would be a retarded fix as it would just shift the farming to the next "resistant" set. As there S/L, Energy resistant farms in existence.

Basically as long as there are powersets that can get 50% or more resistance to any one damage type, those type of farms are never going away.

It would take a fundamental change to how resistance works.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
That would be a retarded fix as it would just shift the farming to the next "resistant" set. As there S/L, Energy resistant farms in existence.

Basically as long as there are powersets that can get 50% or more resistance to any one damage type, those type of farms are never going away.

It would take a fundamental change to how resistance works.
And then everyone would just start farming with defense sets.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
That would be a retarded fix as it would just shift the farming to the next "resistant" set. As there S/L, Energy resistant farms in existence.
Oh, I agree with you. But that wasn't my point. My point is I wouldn't be *surprised* if that fix showed up.

I was somewhat surprised when they decided custom mobs (commonly acknowledged at the time as harder than the average developer mobs) should only be worth 75% experience.*

I was somewhat surprised when they decided that having rescues and escorts in missions should cause it to be worth considerably less experience.*

I was quite surprised when my arcs became unplayable because apparently somebody decided that the complete and stunning lack of farm arcs filled with claws/regeneration mobs wearing yellow and black spandex named Wolverine was a sign that it was only a matter of time before copyright infringement was going to be rampant in AE and therefore needed to tweak the filter so that I couldn't rescue a civilian named Jean or have a boss named "Devil Terrance" (apparently because 'evil Terra' is banned).

And then I realized that I was seeing a trend in efforts to 'fix' problems (or potential problems) in AE. While I know I was slow to catch on, I did ultimately resolve that if I could think up something that fell into the category of "this would be a really bad way to fix problem X in AE", then I would no longer be surprised should I see it actually happen - albeit with the expectation that it would be a placeholder until a better fix could be implemented.

*Yes, I'm aware these are fixed now (hence my last sentence in the preceding paragraph).


M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
That would be a retarded fix as it would just shift the farming to the next "resistant" set. As there S/L, Energy resistant farms in existence.

Basically as long as there are powersets that can get 50% or more resistance to any one damage type, those type of farms are never going away.

It would take a fundamental change to how resistance works.
I think they should just do it based on the number of different damage types as a nice starting point. It might help to factor in how easy it is for players to have mitigation against those attacks as well.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
I think they should just do it based on the number of different damage types as a nice starting point. It might help to factor in how easy it is for players to have mitigation against those attacks as well.
The problem there is that there are a lot of story and thematic based reasons for a group to have a limited number of damage types.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulomb2 View Post
And then I realized that I was seeing a trend in efforts to 'fix' problems (or potential problems) in AE. While I know I was slow to catch on, I did ultimately resolve that if I could think up something that fell into the category of "this would be a really bad way to fix problem X in AE", then I would no longer be surprised should I see it actually happen - albeit with the expectation that it would be a placeholder until a better fix could be implemented months after the damage had been done and some players had given up on AE in disgust, and in such a way as to be completely overshadowed by a new shiny so it would take another few months of effort by the die-hards who hadn't given up to educate the casual AE user that, no, really, AE is usable again....for the next few weeks at least.
Fixed it for you.

But I'm not bitter.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Fixed it for you.

But I'm not bitter.
What's scary is that I don't object to your fix in the least...


M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulomb2 View Post
What's scary is that I don't object to your fix in the least...
I lol'd at that fix, cause it's true.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
The problem there is that there are a lot of story and thematic based reasons for a group to have a limited number of damage types.
I doubt people are playing those arcs for the exp. I remember one of, if not the first, AE arc I did was the Phantom of the Opera based one. I have no clue what kind of exp it gave. I didn't care. I simply enjoyed the quality of work that went into the arc. I'm in no way saying that a AE mission with a low amount of damage types should give bad exp, but have a slight reduction in the amount of exp it gives. Again, this isn't factoring in how easily it is to be mitigated by the player base. A mission that is heavily psy based damage would likely still be more than normal exp. I don't know how high, or not Arachnos are in terms of giving exp, but they really should be at the top.