The defense bubbles synergize best with bots, thugs, and ninjas which have defense among the pets in the primary. Ninjas have the best burst damage, and since forcefields don't leverage any damage or debuff foes, that is a nice combo.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Yeah, I think I'm probably going to try Ninjas.
I've got a Merc/FF and I would recommend against it, if only for the lack of debuffs in FF. It's just too slow, even if it fit my concept perfectly.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
You may like Ninja/ff. Mine is stuck at lvl 47 because I am just tired of bubbling each one. When all the bubbles are up, the ninjas survive pretty well as long as you use pet uniques and maneuver to stack even more defense.
I just can't wait for the new group buff. It will save me soooooooooo much time and endurance.
This is like the biggest buff for bubblers but the down-side is that Kinetic and Cold Domination become even more efficient! Cold Domination already put FF to shame.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Necro pets all debuff to-hit, which is sort of like a resistable defense buff that can stack with FF's. I've never tried Necro/FF so I can't claim from experience it's good, but on paper it's not without synergy.
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Yeah, this is definitely going to be a project for after the patch. Individual bubbling just gets too boring for me.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
You may like Ninja/ff. Mine is stuck at lvl 47 because I am just tired of bubbling each one. When all the bubbles are up, the ninjas survive pretty well as long as you use pet uniques and maneuver to stack even more defense.
I just can't wait for the new group buff. It will save me soooooooooo much time and endurance. This is like the biggest buff for bubblers but the down-side is that Kinetic and Cold Domination become even more efficient! Cold Domination already put FF to shame. |
Well, I've been playing my Ninja/FF more lately. He is lvl 48 at the moment.
He is surprisingly better than I remember but I think a lot of it has to do with Power Boost. On my old build (when stamina was still a power choice), he didn't have room to take Power Boost but Power Boost makes Force Field so much better!
I think my Jounins has soft-capped defense. Let's see...
Jounin has innate defense about 13%
4.45 from Maneuver,
12.8% from Dispersion
24% from power boost Shields
5% from unique = 59.25 Defense (Wow!!!! I thought it was less than that. LOL)
Mmmm, looks like Genin with power boost FF will have 52.25% defense. Good because if they get hit, they just melt.
I've been doing +2 villain tip missions and so far it's been a cake. It's just bubbling each pet is annoying. Technically you probably don't need to buff Oni because he doesn't attract that much aggro.
Then I got curious. I chose a Council newspaper and made it +0x8. I remember my Ninja and Necro couldn't do x8 because pets just die too quick for me to heal/support. Well, I did finish +0x8 mission with my Ninja/FF. The problem I have is when I use aoe web and repulsion bomb. Those two draw a lot of aggro to myself. I am not a fan of bodyguard. I really hate it because I love directing my pets to kill the specific target I want. Well, in the end, I made Genins BG and only direct Oni and Jounins. It was a lot smoother.
My goal is to try to solo an AV with Ninja/FF. I know my Necro/Pain can't. Resistance is nice but AV still hits way too hard and tohit debuffs on AV doesn't seem to matter much. I have Black Scorpian coming up soon. I want to try him first. I think I'll skip Silver Mantis because she has that annoying caltrops.
I just can't wait for FF being group buff. I can power boost the shields on all the pets then! It only has 15s duration so I can only put 3 power boost shields (two of them) on 3 pets.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
when you have both of your enforcers for Thugs/, you can be softcapped by lvl 26 
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Pity that still does nothing for the Arsonist.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
when you have both of your enforcers for Thugs/, you can be softcapped by lvl 26
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50s: Yumi Eryuha-Arch/Energy, Mirria-Thugs/Dark, Meyami Kitsuna-Claws/SR, Celesta Seusen-SS/Invuln, Lady Mirriella-Illusion/Empathy
Arc 503982 "Dimension Xi Epsilon 22-10" Part one of a multi-part arc.
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I was just working on my Ninjas/FF as I read your post, and I have to agree that this is actually a very fun combo. I had a Ninjas/TA in the past, and while I like both the sets, it just didn't feel like it meshed well. This one, however, is quite enjoyable watching the ninjas slice things up. (Until one stray shot gets through the FF and they fold like paper. :P )|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, I've been playing my Ninja/FF more lately. He is lvl 48 at the moment...
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Currently my Jounin are capping out at 67.60% positional defense when they have their Hide on. That's with Power Boosted personal shields, though. I cannot wait for buffs to be AOE. I've always liked force fields conceptually, and this quality of life change is gonna be huge.
(Pardon the terrible mspaint jpg quality, please.)
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Originally Posted by SpacePope
I was just working on my Ninjas/FF as I read your post, and I have to agree that this is actually a very fun combo. I had a Ninjas/TA in the past, and while I like both the sets, it just didn't feel like it meshed well. This one, however, is quite enjoyable watching the ninjas slice things up. (Until one stray shot gets through the FF and they fold like paper. :P )
Currently my Jounin are capping out at 67.60% positional defense when they have their Hide on. That's with Power Boosted personal shields, though. I cannot wait for buffs to be AOE. I've always liked force fields conceptually, and this quality of life change is gonna be huge. (Pardon the terrible mspaint jpg quality, please.) |
Yeah. I know Ninja/TA is a good "theme" but Trick Arrow is like the worst set for Ninja because Trick arrow offers very little to help you pets survive at melee range, and its strength in glue arrow/slow fits better with Robots/Mercs who can get more safety out of those controls.
I used to get really bored with Ninja/FF. Remember we used to upgrade one pet at a time? LOL Oh my... we needed to put two upgrades and then two sets of bubbles. I couldn't take it anymore at lvl 46 so I abandoned him on Virtue for more than 1.5 year until recently. In fact, I am surprised I stick with Ninja/FF up until 46.
By the way, how come your power boost shield gives 26%? Mine has 3 slotted defense but it's 24%. Do you have Nerve alpha?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Doesn't maneuver from Enforcers have smaller radius? I haven't played my Thug for a long time. Yeah one thing that pisses me off is that Thug, Necro and Demon can use their lvl 18 power for four pet unique. That's extra 5% defense to all and 10% resistance. Ninja doesn't get that unless I have /storm.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
when you have both of your enforcers for Thugs/, you can be softcapped by lvl 26
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Yeah.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
By the way, how come your power boost shield gives 26%? Mine has 3 slotted defense but it's 24%. Do you have Nerve alpha?
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By the way, I didn't know you can read Pet's Combat stats? I thought you can only view yourself? I know we can view their specific powers/recharge and stuff like that.|
Originally Posted by SpacePope
Yeah.
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What tier is your Nerve? Because looking at the numbers, if you don't count Hide's defense, Jounin has 62.6% positional defense with your Dispersion and Maneuver. Ouch..that's high! lol
Well, last night I tried to fight +2 Silver Mantis AV. I knew I'll get destroyed but man, is she tough for Ninjas. Her caltrops really messed up my Ninja's AI. My pets would just run back and forth and couldn't really focus damage on her and she is one of the few AVs that uses Aim (from Thorn Assault?) and her hit chance is extremely high even with soft-capped defense. Needlessly to say, one hit I am dead and she has no problem one-shot Jounins. Oni can take one hit and that's it.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I don't blame you. I have in the past refused to play any of the shield sets for precisely that reason. When news of I20.5 was released I celebrated by starting a Demon/Thermal MM. I'm only level 24 and already I'm getting sick of shielding them. I20.5 needs to hurry up and get here |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
You may like Ninja/ff. Mine is stuck at lvl 47 because I am just tired of bubbling each one.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
By the way, I didn't know you can read Pet's Combat stats? I thought you can only view yourself? I know we can view their specific powers/recharge and stuff like that.
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Jib: I believe my nerve is tier 3, I did just enough incarnate stuff to get that and then paused to wait for 20.5
As far as Silver Mantis, it is my personal belief that she is one of the toughest Arachnos AVs you'll run into outside of TFs and the like. She has Thorntrops, the build up, and a crashless elude she can pop quite quickly. So you picked a high bar for your first hurdle.
Adeon: Fully agreed. I've got a demons/therm at 24 myself and I think that's where they're staying until 20.5 hit. I cannot wait. I love buff characters, but single buffing is madness.
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So I tried to solo even level Black Scorpian last night. The first time he went right at me and I died in 5s. lol I was so totally not prepared. He appeared right after the last glowie and I was only in BG mode with three Genins who all died from one aoe. ugh|
Originally Posted by SpacePope
Jib: I believe my nerve is tier 3, I did just enough incarnate stuff to get that and then paused to wait for 20.5
As far as Silver Mantis, it is my personal belief that she is one of the toughest Arachnos AVs you'll run into outside of TFs and the like. She has Thorntrops, the build up, and a crashless elude she can pop quite quickly. So you picked a high bar for your first hurdle. Adeon: Fully agreed. I've got a demons/therm at 24 myself and I think that's where they're staying until 20.5 hit. I cannot wait. I love buff characters, but single buffing is madness. |
Ok, so the second time I am more prepared. I made Envenom Dagger for more -regen. Man, the battle lasts a loooong time. He could still hit my genins pretty frequently so I basically only summon them (not even upgrading them) for my bodyguard and direct Jounins and Oni. My biggest problem is endurance. I Hover in air and run Dispersion, Assault, Maneuver and Scorpian Shield. I don't have sets yet and not even Miracle unique. I really couldn't afford using even one smoke flash (well, I was kind afraid to use it because I don't want aggro to come to me). In fact, I didn't even give Jounins 2nd upgrade after they die because 1. it saves a lot of endurance 2. I don't want them to use Placate. lol
After about 10mins or so... I took him down to about 35% of health. To be honest, that's more than what I thought I would do. Ninja is just so squishy and they are all melee so a Foot Stomp sometimes kill 3 of them. I am only lvl 48 and I plan on freaking-slot this toon. I am saving this mission for later. Not sure if Black Scorpian is considered a hard AV. I don't think he is. He doesn't seem to be any special except that he keeps using taunt which I have no idea what it does to me and my pets. T_T
And about Silver Mantis, oh yeah, she is extremely tough for my MMs. Her caltrops really mess up their AI and she hits HARD and OFTEN with Aim and she has a mini god mode in the end.
Man, I really can't wait until 20.5 comes out. The group AoE buff is going to sooooooo good for MMs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My Ninja/FF hits 50 today. Power Boost + force field shields work wonderful for the Ninjas.
I know power boost can't increase buff powers that have +resistance or +damage component (hence can't improve sonic shields and world of pain).
But Force Field Generator is a pet and it only has +defense. Does anyone know if Power Boost can increase FFG's defense? That will be awesome!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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It either doesn't increase it at all or only increases it for the duration of the power boost. I can't recall which be either way it isn't really useful.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
But Force Field Generator is a pet and it only has +defense. Does anyone know if Power Boost can increase FFG's defense? That will be awesome!
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Mmmm, FFG is a pet. Not sure if power boost can improve a pet's buff defense. Oh well.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It either doesn't increase it at all or only increases it for the duration of the power boost. I can't recall which be either way it isn't really useful.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Just as a note, I've been trying a Thugs/FF out of curiousity, and despite Thugs' general better damage numbers and ability to take every pet unique, I'm not liking it as much. Does Enforcer leadership have a small radius? It feels like it does.
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Well, Enforcers' maneuver from pet detail is 30' radius. Did you slot some +defense in Enforcers? Do you have two of them out? |
Originally Posted by SpacePope
Just as a note, I've been trying a Thugs/FF out of curiousity, and despite Thugs' general better damage numbers and ability to take every pet unique, I'm not liking it as much. Does Enforcer leadership have a small radius? It feels like it does.
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The benefit of Thug is that you can slot two more pet unique in Gang War to get up to 10% Defense and 20% resistance. 10% defense is actually higher than what Genin and Oni have.
I've done tests on Enforcers and even if the minions die (mainly Arsonist), your enforcers are still doing very good damage.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Oh, I'm not complaining about the stats, sorry if I presented it that way. It was mostly a question of curiousity.
I'm at level 35, so I've got plenty of defense going around. It's not that the minions are dying too fast. Well, except the arsonist, as noted. I can't really explain what it is. I'm just not liking the feel. Which is terribly vauge, I know.
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Well, I parked my lvl 37 Thug/Trap on Triumph for over 3 years now. :P That set put me to sleep 'cause it was too good at that time. So yeah, I can sort of understand the feeling of not liking a set even when it's powerful. |
Originally Posted by SpacePope
Oh, I'm not complaining about the stats, sorry if I presented it that way. It was mostly a question of curiousity.
I'm at level 35, so I've got plenty of defense going around. It's not that the minions are dying too fast. Well, except the arsonist, as noted. I can't really explain what it is. I'm just not liking the feel. Which is terribly vauge, I know. |
I am weird in a way that I like Ninja, Merc and Necro. I've never leveled a Robot past 18.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
All right. With the upcoming buff changes, I want to go back to Force Fields. I love the set but I just got tired of individual buffs. So I'm looking for thoughts and opinions on which set I shoudl pick as a primary. I'm not looking for ultimate min/max, just something interesting.
Robots and Demons are the only two I'm not considering. Bots because I love them and have a bunch of them already. Demons are cool, but their size and noise get to me.
So the options are:
Thugs: Good all-around set, built-in brute and leadership. Should be easy to softcap them.
Mercs: A weaker set, but fun thematically if not mechanically. Harder to softcap but bubbles would still help them a lot. Probably not going to go with them unless there's some sort of sudden revelation.
Ninjas: A fun set, defense helps them a ton. Oni is ugly, though.
Necromancy: The set I know the least about. I have never played a necro MM, so I can't attest to what's good or bad for them.
At any rate, I'd like to hear opinions and thoughts on this one, if anyone has them. There's no wrong answer, I'm just trying to decide.