Renew(b) my MM


Bookkeeper_Jay

 

Posted

I've only played one MM since I started playing CoH, and is thinking about renew(b) another. Before that I'd like to rid myself of all the confusion I had when I first started MM.

1) First of all, I've always been quite confused about how enhancement works with pets. Some told me that straight +damage/accuracy would give my pets a better edge since set IO bonuses do not apply to them, but I checked out forums and saw many people uses set IO for their pets, such as Blood Mandate.

2) My previous MM was Bot/Poison and I find killing quite easy, albeit not as engaging. I saw people utilizing Traps a lot, what is its pros? My first villain was a energy/traps corruptor and the experience was rather dull, mainly due to almost all abilities have long CD.

3) I saw many builds without Leadership powers. I though they are essential for MM since Leadership applies to all pets (and self)?

4) As a bots user, do I pick any of rifle powers or should I skip them and go for other stuff?

5) What are some of the 'styles' of a MM? I saw Tankermind, assuming it's a MM build that focus on tanking things for me. Are there other variations?

Thx for the help!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo View Post
I've only played one MM since I started playing CoH, and is thinking about renew(b) another. Before that I'd like to rid myself of all the confusion I had when I first started MM.

1) First of all, I've always been quite confused about how enhancement works with pets. Some told me that straight +damage/accuracy would give my pets a better edge since set IO bonuses do not apply to them, but I checked out forums and saw many people uses set IO for their pets, such as Blood Mandate.
Indeed, Set bonuses do not give bonuses to the pets, only you. However, these bonuses are still very useful for you, especially Blood Mandate's varied defense bonuses. Tanker-minds love that set.

Quote:
2) My previous MM was Bot/Poison and I find killing quite easy, albeit not as engaging. I saw people utilizing Traps a lot, what is its pros? My first villain was a energy/traps corruptor and the experience was rather dull, mainly due to almost all abilities have long CD.
They do have long cooldowns, but recharge enhancements, hasten, and set bonuses help that a LOT. Traps gives FFG and seekers, combined with your robot's own shields and seekers, you're covered for survivability. Every other trick is a plethora of offensive debuffing options and things that turn you into a mini fire-base. It matches bots better than poison on a few levels, most notably the mentioned defense and seeker drone stacking, and AoE debuffs that compliment Bot's heavy late-game AoE focus very well.

Quote:
3) I saw many builds without Leadership powers. I though they are essential for MM since Leadership applies to all pets (and self)?
They do help a lot, especially tactics to help your lowest tier pets hit their targets and it also protects against confuse (One of MM's biggest banes, if a rare status to encounter), but they aren't utterly necessary.

Quote:
4) As a bots user, do I pick any of rifle powers or should I skip them and go for other stuff?
They make a difference early in the game, but as you level they're quickly outshined and outperformed by your bot's arsenal. They don't really have any meaningful secondary effects to offset their poor damage, so they're very skippable.

Quote:
5) What are some of the 'styles' of a MM? I saw Tankermind, assuming it's a MM build that focus on tanking things for me. Are there other variations?
Tanker-minding, and specifically the kind that makes use of taunting effects, buffs/debuffs, and BodyGuard mode to control aggro mode are some of the most viable builds around.
There's also variations that try to allow the mastermind to become one with his pets, not just a buff-bot, meaning the mastermind has many offensive abilities to stay in the fray (Personal Attacks, PBAoEs, Pool Powers). I like doing this with melee base pets like zombies/. I'm always kicking butt and whipping faces with my Demon/Therm MM.
There's also the pet-less mastermind with just support powers and personal attacks. I've seen people do this, but it's really only viable thematically. You end up like a neutered defender.

Think that about does it. Hopefully others can fill in what I missed.



Celtech Main Site
My DA Profile

 

Posted

Thanks for all the advices. Currently the gameplay is running smoothly. Question though: I am not sure how to keep my bots at permanent range position. I tried "All Stay" and "Go To" commands but once they start attacking they'd still run to the enemy and whack them. What should I do to keep them away?


 

Posted

It's a situation all masterminds deal with. Melee set masterminds like demons, necros and ninjas don't notice it as much. They 'adjusted' the AI with the introduction of demon summoning. Basically it comes down to which power is available, pets attack rate cannot be buffed. The real clinker is that protector bots don't have a melee attack, but they still run in.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

This happened even before the Demon introduction, Psy.


 

Posted

There were occasions before demon summoning when pets would rush into melee, but pets AI was changed when demons came out. The specific example is now that dark servants rushes into melee when before it rarely did.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

@ the OP

You must, must, must read the info in the link and fully understand it. If you don't understand either post back in this thread or start a new thread in Archtype & powers general discussion asking about defense cap.

Here is the link I am talking about: http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html

If you don't read that you will find it very difficult to understand what the defenses are and the importance behind them. Nutshell when your using mids above pool 1 is a button called view totals. A new box will open up in mids. It will have 3 tabs/buttons in itself. Survival is the tab we want as it will show your defenses and regeneration and recovery. It is usually the one that it opens up into.

Once you understand that it will travel across to any archtype you create. It will also help you understand IOs because as your open up builds you will start to see how they combined IO sets to go for a specific type of defense or regeneration or recharge. Which is sometimes a common theme with other archtypes.

The bonuses from IO's do NOT effect your pets, only you..

The simple point behind tankermind builds is this: You get defense cap and Provoke ( the power from presence pool ) NPC to attack you instead of your pets. Traps is used because it has many buffs and debuffs to keep you alive while your convincing mobs to attack you. Between being defense soft capped and bodyguard mode you don't get hit that much and you have enough time between hits to regen your health back.

Tankermind is usually Robot Traps. Robots are used because 1 the type of damage they do is less resisted and they are all ranged pets. But you can do Tankermind with Thugs and Mercs as well. You can Tankermind with other pets but there are limitations. You can also Tankermind with dark instead of traps, again with some issues.

I will say that you need to have IO's in place to effectively Tankermind. But without a doubt you can do it with SO's to a lesser extent. You can get your defenses close to half way with SO's which is nothing to complain about.

Pet AI is screwy hopefully one day this decade they will fix it. Pets will not stay and attack as I wish they would too. It would make my tankermind much easier if they were like gun turrets just attacking mobs in range I commanded them to attack without moving.

I would suggest learning to use the numkey pad design for commanding your pets. It is up in the sticky on top. Further it pretty much is cut and paste so it is not like you have to figure out much yourself. I modified/added mine to have the period (.) in the numkey pad be an all stay command for the pets. I spam this in an attempt to keep my pets in one place. I say attempt because they keep creeping up if I do not hit that key repeatedly. Its annoying, but it works.

I don't know what your picking but I will say Robot Traps or Robot Dark is a good starter set for masterminds, basically you will have no complaints or issues leveling this up. Once you get the last pet it becomes much easier.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo View Post
I've only played one MM since I started playing CoH, and is thinking about renew(b) another. Before that I'd like to rid myself of all the confusion I had when I first started MM.

1) First of all, I've always been quite confused about how enhancement works with pets. Some told me that straight +damage/accuracy would give my pets a better edge since set IO bonuses do not apply to them, but I checked out forums and saw many people uses set IO for their pets, such as Blood Mandate.
That's generally true, with a few exceptions: there are three unique IOs that buff your pets, and they have effect descriptions that explain how they buff your pets. Pets can also take damage procs. For example, a thug bruiser accepts knockback IOs, and can take a chance-for-smashing-damage proc. Pets only get procs when using attacks that are appropriate for the set type: bruisers do plenty of knockback attacks that can proc, but some pets accept procs that only work in attacks they hardly ever use, so beware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo View Post
2) My previous MM was Bot/Poison and I find killing quite easy, albeit not as engaging. I saw people utilizing Traps a lot, what is its pros? My first villain was a energy/traps corruptor and the experience was rather dull, mainly due to almost all abilities have long CD.
Traps has the ff generator, which can soft-cap bots rather easily. It has a healing beacon that heals you and your bots over time, which is fantastic for tankerminding. It has lots of other goodies too, particularly regeneration-sapping attacks that make soloing giant monsters possible. It isn't my favorite for playstyle reasons, but I have to concede it's flavor of the month for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo View Post
3) I saw many builds without Leadership powers. I though they are essential for MM since Leadership applies to all pets (and self)?
Well, "essential" might be over-stating it, but I always take leadership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo View Post
4) As a bots user, do I pick any of rifle powers or should I skip them and go for other stuff?
If you want to tankermind, you'll need provoke and some sort of attack. Rifle attacks are boring and endurance-expensive, but they're the best personal attacks you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo View Post
5) What are some of the 'styles' of a MM? I saw Tankermind, assuming it's a MM build that focus on tanking things for me. Are there other variations?
Tankerminding means that YOU grab the aggro and do the tanking, relying on bodyguard mode to split the damage with all your minions. It works best if you have some sort of aoe heal, like traps or pain mastery.