While I get what you're aiming for, this set follows the mode that AR used to follow; multiple weapons in one set.
It didn't work for one reason; Redraw.
That, and the Secondary really doesn't fit any model used by current Blaster secondaries, not that I can see anyway.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
Actually the redraw situation is not equivalent to AR. AR was originally cycling between rifle, shotgun, grenade launcher, and flame thrower. They were trying to do too many different guns.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
While I get what you're aiming for, this set follows the mode that AR used to follow; multiple weapons in one set.
It didn't work for one reason; Redraw. That, and the Secondary really doesn't fit any model used by current Blaster secondaries, not that I can see anyway. |
In this case you only have two guns: a rifle, and a pistol. That's less redraws than the original fire melee or stone. The redraws would be similar to dual pistols...which redraw everytime you change ammo.
The Secondary is equivalent to fire, mental, cold, or electric.
Lariat is a single target imobilize. One two Punch, Right Cross, and Haymaker are melee attacks certainly on par with fire, ice, or electric melee attacks. Yeeh Ha is essentially a build up. Lasso is equivalent to freeze ray. Steely Gaze equates to several powers in the mental manipulation. Second Wind equates to Consume, or Power Sink.
The only one that's odd man out is Tough Hombre, but that could be seen as an alternative to cloaking device. It is different so it has something to add to the AT.
I'm not sure this would have a wide appeal.
My pet peeve is people who refuse to acknowledge it when I tell them my character has unlimited power. If I rp attack them they are of course disintegrated beyond the ability of any hospital or magic to restore. Yet despite this they refuse to delete their characters and still keep playing them as if nothing happened. ~Mandu, 07-16-2010
Quote:
Except they don't. DP has a very quick flick during the power activation of a different ammo. Heck, I'm not even sure it does if your already mid animation, I have the strong suspicion it might skip it. |
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
Actually the redraw situation is not equivalent to AR. AR was originally cycling between rifle, shotgun, grenade launcher, and flame thrower. They were trying to do too many different guns.
In this case you only have two guns: a rifle, and a pistol. That's less redraws than the original fire melee or stone. The redraws would be similar to dual pistols...which redraw everytime you change ammo. |
And even then, you in fact have three redraws between rifle, pistols and secondary set. It's the same issue that armour and weapon sets have, in that the armour sets, for example, heal is only animated sans weapons. This will always cause redraw and people have proven in posts before that excessive redraw is very unpopular.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Everytime you switch between fire sword and incinerate, or brawl, or sands of mu, there's a redraw. Same thing with stone fists, and stone hammer. Everytime you switch between AR or DP and just about any attack of the secondary power sets there's a redraw time. Anytime you use a temporary power there's a redraw.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Except they don't. DP has a very quick flick during the power activation of a different ammo. Heck, I'm not even sure it does if your already mid animation, I have the strong suspicion it might skip it.
And even then, you in fact have three redraws between rifle, pistols and secondary set. It's the same issue that armour and weapon sets have, in that the armour sets, for example, heal is only animated sans weapons. This will always cause redraw and people have proven in posts before that excessive redraw is very unpopular. |
What people were complaining about in the original AR set was every power but burst, sniper, and full auto required the redraw of a new weapon so it was impossible to build up a chain of attacks unhampered by redraw. I.e. fire burst then shotgun required a redraw because you were changing weapons.
The system I proposed would have enough powers of the same type (pistol or rifle) to set up a chain. You may not have noticed that there are 4 powers in pistol and 4 powers in rifle. The 4 pistol powers are relatively moderate ranged, the 4 rifle powers are long ranged (and should be longer than other blaster powers). So players should use the rifle powers grouped together, and the pistol powers grouped together...again cutting down on the redraw time between different types of weapons... so NO, there shouldn't be excessive redraw time in this power set.
I would think this would have an even faster animation time than DP because it wouldn't have all the flashy spinning and twirling. There's been a lot of complaints about that and a desire for a more straight forward gun style that isn't AR.
Obviously the Shootist power set is based on Westerns including Steampunk Westerns like the Wild Wild West, Brisco County Jr., and the League of Extrordinary Gentlemen.
The Art for the pistols in the set should cover: Colt Peace Maker, Schofield, Smith & Wesson 44, Le Mat revolver, Mauser 1898 broom-handle, Colt 1911, Webley Mk I.
Art for the Rifles should cover: Winchester 66, Winchester 73, Mauser 98, Springfield 03, Spencer Carbine, Henry Repeater, Enfield.
Quote:
are the elemental "weapons" redrawed? I'm pretty sure their handled in an entirely different way (they just appear in your hand) they aren't pulled out of anywhere
|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
Everytime you switch between fire sword and incinerate, or brawl, or sands of mu, there's a redraw. Same thing with stone fists, and stone hammer. Everytime you switch between AR or DP and just about any attack of the secondary power sets there's a redraw time. Anytime you use a temporary power there's a redraw.
|
Quote:
Every animation requires replacing one art file with another. Every phase of the animation requires at 30 frames per second requires a new draw of the art. The thing that often takes time with weapons is they through a whole sequence of pulling out (drawing) the weapon. Assault Rifle goes through the animation of pulling the rifle out of thin air off your back, as if it had been there, DP twirls the pistols. Changing ammo requires moving the pistols in a loading action and changing the aura to the new aura as well. Every stage of the animation requires redrawing the artwork. The longer the animation the longer you have to wait until you can use the attack. Some powers have dreadfully long animations.
|
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
are the elemental "weapons" redrawed? I'm pretty sure their handled in an entirely different way (they just appear in your hand) they aren't pulled out of anywhere
|
The "redraw" in elemental melee attacks are baked into their animation/animation time, so they do not suffer from redraw delay. There is no actual "redraw".
This was changed back when they did the overhaul to the whole redraw system, which actually implemented redraw. Before, the redraw was considered part of the actual animation/animation time of the attack.
So, before, EVERY SINGLE ATTACK, even a rifle attack followed by a rifle attack followed by a rifle attack followed by a rifle attack, suffered from redraw.
They removed the redraw delay from the animations/animation time, which means rifle attack, rifle attack, sands of mu no longer redraws between rifle attacks; but rifle attack, sands of mu, rifle attack does redraw.
-----------
I don't think this set would be fun. Having two redraws built into the set is bad enough, but couple that with temporary/temp-permanent powers, secondary powers, pool powers, and epic powers, and it just gets kind of ridiculous.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
No, there really isn't. |
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
Everytime you switch between fire sword and incinerate, or brawl, or sands of mu, there's a redraw. Same thing with stone fists, and stone hammer. Everytime you switch between AR or DP and just about any attack of the secondary power sets there's a redraw time. Anytime you use a temporary power there's a redraw.
|
Fire sword -> Incinerate -> Fire Sword Circle = No redraw
Pistol attack -> Fire Sword -> Rifle -> Pistol = 3 redraws. One to draw the pistol first, none with fire sword, redraw for the rifle and redraw for the final pistol.
Redraw between a Primary and a secondary is acceptable. Thats how all the current weapon sets work.
This suggestion implements two instances of redraw in the same primary set. That isn't going to cut it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
I'm not sure it would work that way in practice, though.. what if the player wanted to use two aoes in a row? Or if the target moves from long range to medium range?|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
The system I proposed would have enough powers of the same type (pistol or rifle) to set up a chain. You may not have noticed that there are 4 powers in pistol and 4 powers in rifle. The 4 pistol powers are relatively moderate ranged, the 4 rifle powers are long ranged (and should be longer than other blaster powers). So players should use the rifle powers grouped together, and the pistol powers grouped together...again cutting down on the redraw time between different types of weapons... so NO, there shouldn't be excessive redraw time in this power set.
|
I like the idea of a Western set, but I'm not sure a two-weapon set would work well in CoX, as the others said. Maybe you could combine them into a long barrel revolver set?
I could go for a set like this. I'd replace the pistol with a rifle though. I'd also prefer a cone to a sniper attack, but that's just personal preference.
The +defense secondary could be replaced with:
5. Bag of Snakes - the character throws a bag of rattlers at the feet of his enemies. The poison from the snakes slow the enemies movement, recharge, and attack rate as well as gives a minor DOT. ( Similar to Caltrips )
I have a western themed DP character - but rarely play him since the "gunfu" animations just dont really fit.
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
Quote:
As long as you mean resistance to, and not protection from, stun and sleep, that might fly. But significant status protection in a Blaster secondary is not going to fly.
|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
5. Tough Hombre-- +Defense (all but psi) + Resistance to knockback, stun, sleep
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I don't care for AR . Dual Pistols ... doesn't fit my character profile.
Here's an alternative guns set that I think would work. It contains a mix of rifle and single pistol action, and is loosely based on Western Movies.
This could be used as a Blaster or Corrupter Primary and a Dominator or Defender Secondary.
1. Quick Draw--very fast medium dm single target moderate range + stun. (Sharon Stone 'The Quick & the Dead', John Wayne 'The Shootist')
2. Deadly Shot--medium extreme dm, single target moderate range + knockdown. 3. Fanned pistol--fast moderate dm cone moderate range. (Lee Van Cleef 'For a Few Dollars More')
4. Aim-- + Accuracy, + Damage
5. Pick off (rifle) -- slow, superior dm, single target + knockdown + extended range (Gene Hackman 'The Quick & the Dead')
6. Three Rounds (rifle)--medium, moderate dm x3 , single target + extended range (shoot three medium damage rounds at a target from long range--Jimmy Stuart 'Winchester 73' Chuck Connors 'The Rifle Man')
7. Pip the Ace (rifle) -- slow, interuptable, sniper shot, extreme damage, single target + extended range. (Sean Connory 'The League of Extrordinary Gentlemen')
8. Bottle Buster (pistol)--slow, targeted AOE, DOT Fire (shooter throws a bottle of flamable liquid or lantern and shoots it causing it to burst into flames and create a burn patch.--Audie Murphy 'Whispering Smith')
9. Dyanmite Shot (rifle)--slow, targeted AOE extreme damage + Knockback (shooter throws a stick of dynamite and then shoots it and it explodes--John Wayne 'El Dorado')
Blaster Shootist Secondary
1. Lariat-- uses a thrown rope to bind the target's feet--imobilizing them
2. One Two Punch-- melee attack Moderate
3. Right Cross-- melee attack
4. Yeee--Ha! --(temporarily increases attack rate and damage by a small amount).
5. Tough Hombre-- +Defense (all but psi) + Resistance to knockback, stun, sleep
6. Haymaker--melee attack
7. Lasso-- uses a rope to bind target's arms to their side holding them for a short period of time.
8. Steely Gaze--cone of Fear
9. Second Wind-- boosts health 30% & endurance 30%