Without time elapsed info, number of shards info is useless.
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Bearing that in mind, it might behoove you to first have a thread discussing what data fields you should be capturing to return statistically useful results.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Without time elapsed info, number of shards info is useless.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Also without specific kill info the number of shards is useless.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Without time elapsed info, number of shards info is useless.
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Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Without time elapsed info, number of shards info is useless.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Bearing that in mind, it might behoove you to first have a thread discussing what data fields you should be capturing to return statistically useful results.
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Originally Posted by Ura Hero
Also without specific kill info the number of shards is useless.
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"How many enemies did you defeat?"
"Dunno. A whole bunch."
"How long did you spend hunting?"
"Uh, more than an hour and less than a year."
"..."
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Man, this guy just won't quit with this....
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Just turn on the statistics collector in the default setting. That will be enough. I'm not burdening people too much.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Bearing that in mind, it might behoove you to first have a thread discussing what data fields you should be capturing to return statistically useful results.
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The file will record total kills, this is a starting point. I'd like to run teams where they all have herostats running but that's too much at this point. |
Originally Posted by Ura Hero
Also without specific kill info the number of shards is useless.
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Here's a sample file:
http://jumbofiles.com/rl7er8mjppp0
I want to state my reasons again for starting this thread:
1. A place to start collecting statistical information.
2. See what others are doing in the game/tfs.
3. Try to address some concerns in my other thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...72#post3654772
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The file will record the duration of the session automatically. This will be useful. Game records shards dropped per character during session.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Without time elapsed info, number of shards info is useless.
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Removed:
You tell me the shards you got and we can start to build some models.
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Well, *I* don't know what that collects. Maybe you do; maybe it is enough. I am neither a user of Herostats nor a statistician by trade.|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
Just turn on the statistics collector in the default setting. That will be enough. I'm not burdening people too much.
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However, the biggest burden on both your volunteers and your reading public will be if you forget some obvious-to-others criterion that renders the whole exercise a waste of time or, worse, results in misinformation.
It seems self-evident to me that ironing out the specifics in advance, especially by enlisting the brainpower of other knowledgeable players who might think of things you do not, would not only give you more useful data, but also help persuade doubters (by getting them to buy into to the terms of the experiment before data collection begins). But your mileage may vary.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, *I* don't know what that collects. Maybe you do; maybe it is enough. I am neither a user of Herostats nor a statistician by trade.
However, the biggest burden on both your volunteers and your reading public will be if you forget some obvious-to-others criterion that renders the whole exercise a waste of time or, worse, results in misinformation. It seems self-evident to me that ironing out the specifics in advance, especially by enlisting the brainpower of other knowledgeable players who might think of things you do not, would not only give you more useful data, but also help persuade doubters (by getting them to buy into to the terms of the experiment before data collection begins). But your mileage may vary. |
All valid concerns. I'll go and put a basic setup profile and post the images or links to the images. I had a guy on the other post put together a specific spreadsheet but we can't implement fully his solution at this time but he gave a good model. Also, I'm talking with the herostats folks about some of our issues.
I'll post the pictures for the herostat setup shortly...My goal right now is to collect to the limits of Herostat and sort it out later. I have an HPC 2008 cluster so I can clean up the data pretty quick.
The shards drops are recorded. FYI.
Setting up CIT/Sentinel and Herostats:
Creating a snapshot of your character(s) using Paint on Windows.
Option 1
1.Open Paint. Start button/All programs/accessories/Paint
2. Start/During the game, hit (ctrl +prtsc) to copy your character image during login/character select window or in the tailor shop.
3. Alt + tab(shows a taskwindow), with the Alt key pressed, hit the Tab, Tab, Tab till you move to the paint window. Release the keys.
Or
Option 2
1.Exit the game and select the Open paint program.
2. Select inside the paint program and hit (Ctrl+V) to insert/paste the screenshot into the program.
Step by Step after copying Screenshot
Illustrated weblinks(open all in a new tabs for easy viewing):
Step 1: http://jumbofiles.com/jqr0vds3r72f/Paint1.png.html - paste image into paint and select the rectangular selection.
Step 2: http://jumbofiles.com/qz0p5fykqni4/Paint2.png.html - draw a rectangle around your character head to toe.
Step 3: http://jumbofiles.com/z1po4c5mqs9r/Paint3.png.html - push the crop button on the home menu(highlighted)
Step 4: http://jumbofiles.com/y7l6ole4sfne/Paint4.png.html - result that you'll see inside of paint.
Step 5: http://jumbofiles.com/dnjv8vddertc/Paint5.png.html- save file as a .png file(why? lighter with high resolution. Replacement file format for .gif). Remember the location or save it somewhere that's easy to get to.
Setting up CIT & Sentinel
http://cit.cohtitan.com/ - Install Sentinel. I encourage you to setup a CIT profile and add a character picture using windows paint.
The picture has a use later, it allows you to verify if the tool is tracking correctly.
Set Illustrated weblinks(open all in a new tabs for easy viewing):
Step 1: http://jumbofiles.com/k3brz58h0ssa/CIT1.png.html - After creating a profile, add your character(s) to your profile.
Step 2: http://jumbofiles.com/jwpr9n4y11qs/CIT2.png.html - After creating a character, add a picture.
Step 3: http://jumbofiles.com/b76f3kqflkv8/CIT3.png.html - Do the paint section(above) before doing this and remember the location of your saved file(s).
Step 4: http://jumbofiles.com/2o70hqn6dzwu/CIT4.png.html - Add the box to capture character correctly.
Step 5: http://jumbofiles.com/lctcex1gqnif/CIT5.png.html - Scroll down to the bottom
Step 6: http://jumbofiles.com/z665v50sjilp/CIT6.png.html - Confirm your pose/snapshot.
Your in the CIT database now!!
States of Sentinel(open all in a new tabs for easy viewing):
1. Not logged in, http://jumbofiles.com/y96bdj7xwq5l/S...gedin.png.html
2. Logged in but game not running, http://jumbofiles.com/0kk4pwunugdv/S_loggedin.png.html
2. Logged in and game running but not tracking(session was disrupted or something), http://jumbofiles.com/qqesfnlwzijg/S...cking.png.html
3. Tracking Correctly, http://jumbofiles.com/bnml4zostv7x/S_working.png.html
Installing Herostats:
1. Go here, http://www.herostats.org/ and download and install the tool.
2. Once the tool starts, it looks like this, http://jumbofiles.com/gohi12eumtnr/Hero1.png.html
This tool right now can track what we need it to do but I will post the options windows for those of you who are interested in greater depth. But right now the tool will work, all you have to do is start the game and it will start to track statistics. See here for what it looks like when you activate your character, http://jumbofiles.com/a8uce1i996i3/Hero2.png.html. This picture shows stats in the main box. The game will name the file after your character logged in and add a date. All you have to do is hit the save key after the game or session.
HeroStat Options:
There are two options: Hero and Global, http://jumbofiles.com/9tkc7ee5kw0y/Hero3.png.html
HeroStat Hero Options:
Menu, http://jumbofiles.com/p6ljy3kfw241/Hero4.png.html
Comments: 8 tabs exist here(Options(shown with defaults), Scanners, In-Game, Timers, Filters, Pages, Custom, & Stats)
Options - Character tracking settings, sounds, file locations.
Options Image, http://jumbofiles.com/ttes45ggz94q/H...tions.png.html
Scanner - Nothing needs to be adjusted here
Scanner Image, http://jumbofiles.com/gtp5he562cce/H...anner.png.html
In-Game - Make sure session experience and experience per minute are selected(marked in red)
In-Game Image, http://jumbofiles.com/a7k1rprad8mm/H...ngame.png.html
Timers - Nothing needs to be adjusted here
Timers Image, http://jumbofiles.com/30krzcbou24m/H...imers.png.html
Filters - Nothing needs to be adjusted here
Filters Image, http://jumbofiles.com/pi2tlggva8rf/H...lters.png.html
Pages - This will need to be adjusted...waiting for comments
Page Image, http://jumbofiles.com/69x66mbw4le7/H...Pages.png.html
Custom - Nothing needs to be adjusted here
Custom Image, http://jumbofiles.com/3ndrp9ah61r0/H...ustom.png.html
Stats - This will need to be adjusted...waiting for comments
Stats Image, http://jumbofiles.com/iuhp8zqneyyg/H...stats.png.html
HeroStat Global Options Menu, http://jumbofiles.com/q7j0zf1m2wve/Hero5.png.html
Comments: 3 tabs exist here(Options(shown with defaults), Website, and Twitter)
Website is used if you want to pull stats from somewhere instead of the game. This doesn't need to be modified.
Twitter can be configured for those into that...
I need comments on the Herostat setting section!!!
My section is ready for review now.
Doing speed runs nets you more overall rewards then killing everything. I can get more shards then you do on an LGTF by doing a speed run many times. Look at it this way, if I run an LGTF in 30 mins and get 6 shards compared to your 1 1/2 hr run with 10 shards, I am getting 18 shards per 1 1/2 hrs. I am getting 80% more shards then you in the same amount of time. All of this is dependent on the RNG(RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR) though.
You also need to take into acount that if you want comparable stats, the teams need to be made up of the same people every time. This way you are getting just about the same figures every time.
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And also defeating the same number of the same type of foes (Bosses, Lt, etc..)|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint_0I
You also need to take into acount that if you want comparable stats, the teams need to be made up of the same people every time. This way you are getting just about the same figures every time.
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Personally, it seems like a lot of work just to find out what everybody else already knows: (It's random and prone to lucky streaks and unlucky streaks even if you find the "best TF for shards") lol
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I tactfully disagree. Your making the assumption that everyone is getting rewards in the speed. Most of the speeds, I've done, the quickest just leave the rest behind during the map race. Also, I'm sure the drops are less too. Also, the speed run isn't consistently 6. It's more like 4-6. Where the farm/clear is 10-15.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint_0I
Doing speed runs nets you more overall rewards then killing everything. I can get more shards then you do on an LGTF by doing a speed run many times. Look at it this way, if I run an LGTF in 30 mins and get 6 shards compared to your 1 1/2 hr run with 10 shards, I am getting 18 shards per 1 1/2 hrs. I am getting 80% more shards then you in the same amount of time. All of this is dependent on the RNG(RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR) though.
You also need to take into acount that if you want comparable stats, the teams need to be made up of the same people every time. This way you are getting just about the same figures every time. |
But ultimately, the only we can professionally answer this question is to start collecting statistics. Also, teams are never the same. I want to knip that comment in the bud right now. Drops are drops.
These are my feelings right now about this "project," post your stats and at the end of every month I'll post the results of all the TFs. Over time, well see the trends.
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Believe what you will, but we need to eliminate every factor out that could have anything to do with drops. The easiest and fastest way is to run the tf with the same exact toons every time. And even in your little example, I still net more shards then you do. I am doing more runs in the same amount of time. I am not talking doing 1 run, I am talking about doing the same amount of time spent total. You spend 1 1/2 hrs on 1 run and net on average 12 shards per run. I can run 3 times in 1 1/2 hrs and net 15 shards on average. |
Originally Posted by Residentx10
I tactfully disagree. Your making the assumption that everyone is getting rewards in the speed. Most of the speeds, I've done, the quickest just leave the rest behind during the map race. Also, I'm sure the drops are less too. Also, the speed run isn't consistently 6. It's more like 4-6. Where the farm/clear is 10-15.
But ultimately, the only we can professionally answer this question is to start collecting statistics. Also, teams are never the same. I want to knip that comment in the bud right now. Drops are drops. |
If you don't understand what I did there, I took the number in the middle of the 2 ends and used that for the average.
edit: It would be nice to know how many shards everyone else on the run dropped also.
LGTF Morning Herostat File, 2 hours almost, All 50s. 7.22MB
http://jumbofiles.com/5gkw7qgpxjc0
Why bother collecting this data? It won't impact a power-gamer's choice of TF because they know LGTF is easier. It won't impact a casual gamer's choice because they don't care as much about progression rates. In any case, shards are only required for the Alpha slot. It is much easier to get threads for the other slots. You are basically collecting information that is no longer needed (would have been slightly useful before I20) and nobody will use it.
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Because I want to...you don't have to post here if you don't like it, ok?
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Originally Posted by Syntax42
Why bother collecting this data? It won't impact a power-gamer's choice of TF because they know LGTF is easier. It won't impact a casual gamer's choice because they don't care as much about progression rates. In any case, shards are only required for the Alpha slot. It is much easier to get threads for the other slots. You are basically collecting information that is no longer needed (would have been slightly useful before I20) and nobody will use it.
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I don't get the hostility to this topic. Gathering data is always good.
ITF Saturday afternoon stats. 1 hr 30min - 5.76MB
http://jumbofiles.com/ev3g0m3xi5xg
All 50 but 1, 48
Team left afterwards and didn't farm completely the map. I may change my opinion about the ITF. I could have got more easily today.
We have an ongoing thread about which tf gives the most shards. I do not play this game enough to collect the amount of statistics needed.
If any of you play these TFs with teams of 8 could you post your herostat file please? We trying to build a database of results.
Herostats can be downloaded here: http://www.herostats.org/
Also, post this information:
1. Team Makeup:
50
50
50
50
50
50
50
48(example)
2. Shards you received.
3. Speed or Farm run
Thanks in advance.