Law of Fives question (set bonuses)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-19 18:54 in Player Questions
If it helps, this is my build. You can import it into Mids and see for yourself if you like.
Code:
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I'm suspecting it's a mids glitch from when BOTZ gave a bit more ranged def (3.13, changed in I17, according to pwiki.)
But I'll let someone who's dug into this a bit more give a more thorough answer.
Quote:
Yes. Those are different bonuses. One is an E/N bonus with a certain name and one is a ranged bonus with a certain name. The secondary values were added some time after the sets were originally introduced. The Rule of Five goes by bonus NAME. This is why you can have the 7.5% recharge bonus ten times as long as five are the regular one and five are the Luck of the Gambler one.
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Originally Posted by boppaholic
BG and T have this set bonus: 2.5% E/N def, 1.25% R def
BotZ has this set bonus: 1.25% R def, 0.625 E/N def. Does this make them different bonuses, |
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Quote:
... Hmm. I was going by PWiki when looking at those values. That would be helpful info to have. Have the precise name that it gives? PW just gives "Ranged defense." (Or it could be added as a note after the description.)|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Yes. Those are different bonuses. One is an E/N bonus with a certain name and one is a ranged bonus with a certain name. The secondary values were added some time after the sets were originally introduced. The Rule of Five goes by bonus NAME. This is why you can have the 7.5% recharge bonus ten times as long as five are the regular one and five are the Luck of the Gambler one.
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Unless I'm missing something obvious. Also possible. I'm still at work, after all, and that's never healthy for thinking.
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There's no way to know what the name of the set bonus is without ... knowing the name of the set bonus. But the way it works is that all set bonuses are granted by invisible passive powers. The BotZ bonus is clearly different from the Basilisk bonus: even though the ranged piece is coincidentally the same, the total defense bonus is clearly different. Since the bonuses are different, they have to be granted by two different set bonus powers, so they have to have different names, so they each fall under a different rule of five cap.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... Hmm. I was going by PWiki when looking at those values. That would be helpful info to have. Have the precise name that it gives? PW just gives "Ranged defense." (Or it could be added as a note after the description.)
Unless I'm missing something obvious. Also possible. I'm still at work, after all, and that's never healthy for thinking. |
The big rule of thumb exception is LotG +recharge whose set bonus power is known to have a different name than the one that typically grants +7.5% recharge in sets with that bonus.
To put it another way, everything in the little box in Paragonwiki's invention origin set listing for set bonuses must be identical for there to be any chance that two set bonuses are in fact identical. The fact that the Basilisk bonus is yellow and the BotZ bonus is green and they buff different things in total mean they are not the same bonus. The stacking limit covers the entire bonus, not the individual pieces of the bonus. To be clear, there is only *one* set bonus for having two pieces of Basilisk's gaze slotted: a single bonus that buffs energy, negative, and ranged defense. There is only one set bonus for slotting two pieces of Blessing of the Sephyr: a single bonus that buffs ranged, energy, and negative defense. Those *two* bonuses are not exactly, precisely the same so they could not possibly be granted by the same set bonus power.
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To add to what Arcanaville said, these are the 2 separate invisible bonuses:
The Basalisk and Thunderstrike use this bonus
and BotZ uses this bonus
They are separate 'powers', so stacking isn't an issue
Also, as Arcanaville stated, some set enhancements grant specific powers aside from set bonuses, such as Luck of the Gambler's +recharge or Gift of the Ancients' +run speed
Full City of Data List
Admittedly CoD is 3 or so issues outdated, but there haven't really been any set bonus changes since then, so you can generally rely on it.
Thank you for the feedback. It was very good information. I look forward to taking advantage of the bonuses.
Bonus' were changed to add a complimentary type or positional defence value that was half of its normal. So there was more diversity in what people could aim for, as well as seeming to round off a few numbers.
But the names are different a "large" S/L bonus provides also a "medium" Melee bonus (or something akin to that), but it doesn't affect a "Medium" melee bonus which would also give a "Small" smash/lethal bonus. as the names are different, while the values are the same.
In a similar vein, its why you can have 5 luck of the gamblers, and 5 other sources of 7.5% recharge bonus (sniper sets, BasGaze etc)
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
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Quote:
Paragon Wiki has a detailed explanation for how defense set bonuses work with regard to the rule of fives on this page:|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... Hmm. I was going by PWiki when looking at those values. That would be helpful info to have. Have the precise name that it gives? PW just gives "Ranged defense." (Or it could be added as a note after the description.)
Unless I'm missing something obvious. Also possible. I'm still at work, after all, and that's never healthy for thinking. |
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Invent...efense_Bonuses
I was messing around in Mids to try and softcap a hero in Ranged defense. My hero has 3 Basilisk's Gazes, 2 Thunderstrikes, and 3 Blessing of the Zephyrs. The BG and T should max me out, as they have 5 1.25% ranged defense bonuses. But I am still getting the BotZ bonuses of 1.25%. I thought that with the same amount, I would be limited to only 5 bonuses. My only theories are these: Mids is wrong and this is a glitch, or the set bonuses for BG and T are actually different from the one in BotZ.
BG and T have this set bonus: 2.5% E/N def, 1.25% R def
BotZ has this set bonus: 1.25% R def, 0.625 E/N def.
Does this make them different bonuses, or would the 1.25% R def still be limited to only 5 and Mids is wrong? I am designing for a respec, and can't afford to waste it if Mids is being glitchy.
Thanks.