PROTEST 101: Should we stage protests?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I was jjust thinking...it's no secret after half a decade that the Devs could care less about Base Builders. So what can we do about it?

We have made lists, formed representative groups, posted letters to the devs...you name it. Nothing works.

Today I got to thinking. In the real world, we would just stop buying the product, right?

Not gonna happen here. I don't know about you, but no matter how many times I tell myself I'm done, I always seem to come back to the game. So, frankly, stomping our feet and threatening to quit is an empty threat.

But what else is done in the real world that we could do here? Today, it dawned on me. Now, keep in mind, this is an idea that is minuted old and hasn't been thought through yet...maybe we can work it out together, or toss it in the trash together, lol.

PROTEST 101
What I propose is this...if the base builders can come together and create toons on the same server once a week (each week on a different server) and as a unit stage a protest, complete with picket signs and broadcast chants...for just...say...an hour each week...until the devs take notice, would it make our voices heard?

I know, at first, other players in the zones (say Atlas for example) would laugh and insult us. But if we stick to our guns, would we eventually draw attention to the issue?

Discuss. Is this an idea worth pursuing?

There is another benefit as well...
You know how some families get together for a weekly bar-b-q? Well, this would allow for all the base builders to hook up, get to know each other. We could form a special global channel for non-broadcast chat or something.

What do you guys think?


 

Posted

I like the idea of base builders getting together. I don't think a protest is the most constructive option available. A regular gathering on a regular basis for base related events would show players and devs alike that there are more players out there who are interested to see some improvement to the base system.

If we, as a community can band together and show that we are a growing minority, and suggest to the developers how improving this system can gain and maintain the player base, we will start to see the improvements we have been so desperately waiting for.

We have some incredibly talented builders who give tours and supergroups who sponsor base building contests. More of this would, in my opinion, be a more positive approach to the issue.


 

Posted

I think it's silly. It won't make the changes come any faster. As much as I love base editing, the reality is is that it isn't a necessity of the game. It's a nice feature, but you don't need base editing to get from 1 to level 50 - so yes, it's on the back burner, but I don't doubt they aren't working on it when they can.

They are - and I know you'll take umbrage with this, so I'm sorry - working on more important things.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTurbo View Post
I like the idea of base builders getting together. I don't think a protest is the most constructive option available. A regular gathering on a regular basis for base related events would show players and devs alike that there are more players out there who are interested to see some improvement to the base system.

If we, as a community can band together and show that we are a growing minority, and suggest to the developers how improving this system can gain and maintain the player base, we will start to see the improvements we have been so desperately waiting for.

We have some incredibly talented builders who give tours and supergroups who sponsor base building contests. More of this would, in my opinion, be a more positive approach to the issue.
Some great points. And sometimes Supergroups plan things and get special badges...I wonder if that would be possible in this instance?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
I think it's silly. It won't make the changes come any faster. As much as I love base editing, the reality is is that it isn't a necessity of the game. It's a nice feature, but you don't need base editing to get from 1 to level 50 - so yes, it's on the back burner, but I don't doubt they aren't working on it when they can.

They are - and I know you'll take umbrage with this, so I'm sorry - working on more important things.
You actually mention a good point to address. You are 100% right. But to assume Base editting is not important to the game...well, what about all those times when burnout comes along and any new content is months away?

I cannot tell you how many times I stuck around when the only reason was to edit and work on my base.

Even the newest content gets old eventually, but in bases? We can get as creative as we like, and feel proud about what we build.

This is unlike Mission Architect, where it's difficult to even get in the top rankings for your work no matter how good it is. With bases, you can finish your project and show it off. With AE...well, you can post it on the forums, but hardly anyone accesses the mission these days.

So...perhaps base building isn't needed to get from 1-50, but it is needed nevertheless.

Besides, if gettting to 50 was the only point, I would have all the servers on my account filled up with them by now.

Base editing gives staying power to the game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
I think it's silly. It won't make the changes come any faster. As much as I love base editing, the reality is is that it isn't a necessity of the game. It's a nice feature, but you don't need base editing to get from 1 to level 50 - so yes, it's on the back burner, but I don't doubt they aren't working on it when they can.

They are - and I know you'll take umbrage with this, so I'm sorry - working on more important things.

We didn't NEED the trams and ferries to be merged to get from 1-50...but they did it.

We don't NEED tons of costumes and emotes to get from 1-50...but we get those too.

We didn't NEED the whole Incarnate System since that begins after we hit 50...but the devs have devoted a whole issue to it.

I once read that some guy got to 50 using Brawl...he kept leveling but never trained. So we don't NEED most of what we have to get from 1-50...but it makes it more fun.

Base Editing makes the game more fun for Base Editors...


"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr View Post
We didn't NEED the trams and ferries to be merged to get from 1-50...but they did it.

We don't NEED tons of costumes and emotes to get from 1-50...but we get those too.

We didn't NEED the whole Incarnate System since that begins after we hit 50...but the devs have devoted a whole issue to it.

I once read that some guy got to 50 using Brawl...he kept leveling but never trained. So we don't NEED most of what we have to get from 1-50...but it makes it more fun.

Base Editing makes the game more fun for Base Editors...
  • 1. It wasn't an intensive project as would upgrading/fixing/changing the Base Editing System.
  • 2. People scream and complain when we don't get them.
  • 3. People pissed and moaned for years that we didn't have an endgame system. That's what the Incarnate System was designed for.
  • 4. I once read that if you wish upon a star your dreams do come true.
  • *5. Base editing doesn't advance the game or give me XP. If I want to build a base I will simply play THE SIMS

The base editing system needs a complete overhaul. It's not a simple flick of the wrist fix.

Unless you are an experienced programmer, as I am not, I don't think either of us can really complain about how long it is taking to fix/upgrade.


 

Posted

Not only are bases (and SGs for that matter) not a necessity; their utility is pretty much at an all time low. Here's my point: I believe this is by design... especially given what was done lately in game to promote base/sg travel, rez, teaming and crafting alternatives. At this point, the easiest "fix" would be to move the CoP outside of bases (a la what happened to the Silver Mantis SF redside...still another example of trend away from bases) place empowerment stations in Universities and just concede the point once and for all that bases are past their prime and not doing anything that cannot be done elsewhere (in most cases better).

However, I disagree with those who imply that things somehow "have" to be this way. I believe there are a number of "simple" things which could be done that would have wide in game appeal. I also feel that many of the base related complaints over multiple years are indeed justified (and you do not need to be an experienced programmer to see or understand that). However, these voices and complaints have been (purposely) overruled.

What we need (and do not have) is some greater influence "on the inside" to promote the "vision" of base/sg value. There is no single person responsible for the health and welfare of this aspect of the game. So we should not be surprised that there is likewise no responsibility to accomplish anything. My theory is the failure of the whole "All you bases are belong to us" (for those of you that remember that a few years back) largely shut the door on both base development and open dev/player communications on the subject. I wish I had been told that earlier... it would have saved me a couple of years of pleading and aggravation.

Will this door reopen with secret committees? More lists? Protests? I have my doubts. Despite some very well meaning efforts and intentions, the easier development path (the same path we've been on for quite some time) is one of benign neglect. I'd love to see some tangible results that prove me wrong on this score but I remain pessimistic.


One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr View Post
Base Editing makes the game more fun for Base Editors...
This is the core problem really. What percentage of the players do you think ever use the base editor? Of that group what percentage do you think really use it beyond the minimum to get a functional base with a small amount of decoration?

The problem is that improving base editing is likely a huge amount of work (based on comments the devs have made) which provides value for a relatively small fraction of the player base.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
  • 1. It wasn't an intensive project as would upgrading/fixing/changing the Base Editing System.
  • 2. People scream and complain when we don't get them.
  • 3. People pissed and moaned for years that we didn't have an endgame system. That's what the Incarnate System was designed for.
  • 4. I once read that if you wish upon a star your dreams do come true.
  • *5. Base editing doesn't advance the game or give me XP. If I want to build a base I will simply play THE SIMS

The base editing system needs a complete overhaul. It's not a simple flick of the wrist fix.

Unless you are an experienced programmer, as I am not, I don't think either of us can really complain about how long it is taking to fix/upgrade.

Emotes and costumes don't give me Xps either by the way...


"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
This is the core problem really. What percentage of the players do you think ever use the base editor? Of that group what percentage do you think really use it beyond the minimum to get a functional base with a small amount of decoration?

The problem is that improving base editing is likely a huge amount of work (based on comments the devs have made) which provides value for a relatively small fraction of the player base.


How much effort went into PvP which is also a very small percentage of the player base? They even made new Recipes with special PvP effects.

If Bases are outdated it's because the devs allowed them to become so. If they now have less functionality it's because Bases have not evolved as much of the game has.


"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"

 

Posted

So what do you propose they do to make bases updated and worthwhile? How would a large percentage of the playerbase benefit from a massive amount of work pulled from other projects like new content, costumes, powers, etc. and dedicated to bases? I'm kind of curious.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr View Post
How much effort went into PvP which is also a very small percentage of the player base? They even made new Recipes with special PvP effects.
And look how badly the PvP revamp went down. It was an attempt to make PvP more relevant to the rest of the players and ended up just killing PvP entirely.

As for new recipes, implementing a new set of IO recipes is a LOT easier than making a new base editor.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
So what do you propose they do to make bases updated and worthwhile? How would a large percentage of the playerbase benefit from a massive amount of work pulled from other projects like new content, costumes, powers, etc. and dedicated to bases? I'm kind of curious.
IMHO the only way to make a major base update relevant to the majority of the player base is to do it as part of a individual housing update.

One of the key selling points of CoX as always been the ability to make a visually unique character and character housing would seem like the next logical step in that allowing players to specify not only how their character looks but how and where they live.

Decoupling the base building system from the supergroup system (and more importantly the need to worry about funds) would allow people who wanted to to spend the time and effort to make a personalized "home" for their character.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
IMHO the only way to make a major base update relevant to the majority of the player base is to do it as part of a individual housing update.

One of the key selling points of CoX as always been the ability to make a visually unique character and character housing would seem like the next logical step in that allowing players to specify not only how their character looks but how and where they live.

Decoupling the base building system from the supergroup system (and more importantly the need to worry about funds) would allow people who wanted to to spend the time and effort to make a personalized "home" for their character.
This was one of the main reasons the friend who got me into the game left. He wanted a personal space that he didn't need the funds of a large SG or rich character to create.

I must admit, in my solo SGs practical concerns alway override artistic. I may wish it weren't so but i'll always take a funtional SG over a pretty one.

At some point in the future I may have both, but <shrug> that'll take time and since i've no plans on going anywhere anytime soon it'll get done eventually.

I've recently moved my main playing from one server to another, not because I hate the original server or knew folks on the new server (before joining anyway). Anyway, now i'm left with a perfectly good (solo) base on the original server that sees little use. I know this has been posted elsewhere but it's too damn bad they don't allow transfer of bases/SGs, especially in the case of a solo one.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
This is the core problem really. What percentage of the players do you think ever use the base editor? Of that group what percentage do you think really use it beyond the minimum to get a functional base with a small amount of decoration?

The problem is that improving base editing is likely a huge amount of work (based on comments the devs have made) which provides value for a relatively small fraction of the player base.
These are all valid points, and unfortunately, kind of a shame in my humble opinion. If I might threadjack for a moment, this is why I made a VG on Justice redside some years back where all members can edit the base.

Then I gave it away.

Then I remade it and named it Extreme Base Makeovers. Sadly it has more or less remained a solo VG but if anyone here might be interested in joining feel free to shoot me a tell ingame at @Impulseking and we'll see about getting you in. Relevant info: 1. All ranks can edit base, invite members, and pay rent. 2 . Many ranks can edit VG colors and symbol. 3. Yeah, I wanna keep the red star. 4. If concerned with RP, the VG has an (unenforced obviously) anarchist theme. Yes it's a loosely organized group promoting anarchy. Deal with the inherent contradictions as you want.

Oh and I won't presume that other base-editing SGs like this don't also exist. Only that I'm as yet unaware of any others.


It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.