Help with top end soft-capped Katana/Regeneration
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2011-05-14 21:39 in Scrappers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
How about a bit more lower r/a defense but getting IH and SM a little faster as well as getting some more regen
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50% to hit = 6731Looks like you're moving in the right direction, though again, I'm not capping regeneration, and you're further over the cap for those 10 seconds. I should probably get the cap in there, but it probably won't make too much difference.
64% to hit = 5898
I should also warn that I've made no special allowance for the increased incidence of energy damage in the incarnate content. So the lethal defense is still covering a lot of the ranged and AoE gap, perhaps more than it should for the 64% to hit number. But eh, that's just one among many problems with this method. It's a way to ballpark some stuff. I'm reporting way more precision than we have accuracy.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Of course you had to bring the White Elephant into it :P|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Except for the greens that debuff regen and healing...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werner
I should note that this build, at least, isn't running amok at 301 HP/S. It's "only" averaging 229 HP/S, or just a hair under because you cap regen by a small amount if you hit Rebirth and Instant Healing at the same time, and I didn't account for that.
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Additionally, I'd had this saved from when I'd looked at the first build and it was the only foreseeable change I could surmount that put Instant Healing where it needed to be and averaged the defenses reasonably. 45.8/35.5/35.5 (w/ one DA Application). With Rebirth being more seriously considered, I figure it's worth throwing onto the Pyre for comparison.
Code:
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
I'd had this saved from when I'd looked at the first build and it was the only foreseeable change I could surmount that put Instant Healing where it needed to be and averaged the defenses reasonably. 45.8/35.5/35.5 (w/ one DA Application). With Rebirth being more seriously considered, I figure it's worth throwing onto the Pyre for comparison.
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50% to hit = 6150I did some fiddling from Iggy's build. True perma Hasten now. Barely budged the numbers though. 250 HP/S average regeneration + healing.
64% to hit = 5379
50% to hit = 6768
64% to hit = 5931
Code:
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Nice to see the Masters at work.
Out of curiosity -- and with apologies if this is already covered elsewhere -- how do you weight different types/positions, Werner? I ask because for normal content I'd probably lean towards soft-capping ranged DEF at the expense of AoE. In the trials, and given all of your defensive clicks (and given the Drain Psyche flying around in Lambda), your more balanced approach is probably better.
Anyway, here's a build with soft-capped Melee/Ranged DEF (using Iggy's as a base), just for comparison:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.94
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I weight the positions 70% melee, 20% ranged and 10% AoE when calculating. As with damage types, I've made no special allowance for damage positions in the incarnate content. I tend to favor ranged, but only by a bit. Regardless of what the numbers might say, I don't want to be overly weak to one position.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Out of curiosity -- and with apologies if this is already covered elsewhere -- how do you weight different types/positions, Werner? I ask because for normal content I'd probably lean towards soft-capping ranged DEF at the expense of AoE. In the trials, and given all of your defensive clicks (and given the Drain Psyche flying around in Lambda), your more balanced approach is probably better.
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A problem I see with that build is that Shadow Meld only gets AoE to the old soft cap. I suppose with energy, negative and lethal all at the new soft cap it won't be that big a deal. And the recharges on Shadow Meld and Moment of Glory just don't support being at the new soft cap as often, and it's the times that we drop away from it that are murder, and need to be kept as short as possible.
I should take a look at the numbers, though, and see if they back up my concerns. I was wrong about Rebirth. I can be wrong about other things.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Ah, ok. I don't imagine the loss of the Incarnate cap to melee DEF outside of Meld/MoG will help either. As far as clicks go, I'm probably just letting my bias shine through; I figure I'm not gonna want to activate those powers as often as they're strictly available anyway, so my instinct is to build for as much survivability as possible outside of those buffs. |
Originally Posted by Werner
I weight the positions 70% melee, 20% ranged and 10% AoE when calculating. As with damage types, I've made no special allowance for damage positions in the incarnate content. I tend to favor ranged, but only by a bit. Regardless of what the numbers might say, I don't want to be overly weak to one position.
A problem I see with that build is that Shadow Meld only gets AoE to the old soft cap. I suppose with energy, negative and lethal all at the new soft cap it won't be that big a deal. And the recharges on Shadow Meld and Moment of Glory just don't support being at the new soft cap as often, and it's the times that we drop away from it that are murder, and need to be kept as short as possible. |
It's also possible that my time playing ranged-soft-capped squishies has colored my view of AoE DEF. Meleers get exposed to probably twice as many AoE attacks on average, and in AV fights, even splash damage can kill a Scrapper -- probably not so much this Scrapper, but that's a judgment call.
In any case, from a practical standpoint, keeping your DEF values closer to even will make Inspiration use (and even teammate buffs, to the extent that you evaluate those on the fly) much more straightforward.
Anyway, fun thread
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I'd like to see a build like the above ones from Iggy, John, and Werner, but without the plethora of PvP IOS. I'll buy *ONE* PvP +3 defense with A-Merits, but I'm not likely to buy all those Panacea Sets. I'd do the Hectatomb and Hami's, but I just can't imagine being able to afford any of The Panacea Sets.
I just don't see any way to replace both the Recovery/Regen/HP and the Recharge. Mixed Numina/Miracle will cover Recovery/Regen/HP, but not Recharge. Doctored Wounds would cover recharge, but not Recovery/Regen/HP. Obviously Panacea IS the set you want, IF you can afford it. I can't.
I tend to rate them either equal or 60 Melee/SLE , 30 Ranged/FCP, 15 AoE/ENT (Yes, I Know that's 105.). That's one reason I'm fond of the SLE Mu Shield on Def/Con.
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Eh, the Panacea sets aren't all that important in the grand scheme. You can replace them with Doctored Wounds for more or less the same effect. HP is capped regardless, so basically all you're losing out on is 2.5% recharge and 10% regen (Edit:about 1 HP/sec) per set. I wouldn't sweat the Panaceas if you're looking to play one of the builds in this thread.|
Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
I'd like to see a build like the above ones from Iggy, John, and Werner, but without the plethora of PvP IOS. I'll buy *ONE* PvP +3 defense with A-Merits, but I'm not likely to buy all those Panacea Sets. I'd do the Hectatomb and Hami's, but I just can't imagine being able to afford any of The Panacea Sets.
I just don't see any way to replace both the Recovery/Regen/HP and the Recharge. Mixed Numina/Miracle will cover Recovery/Regen/HP, but not Recharge. Doctored Wounds would cover recharge, but not Recovery/Regen/HP. Obviously Panacea IS the set you want, IF you can afford it. I can't. I tend to rate them either equal or 60 Melee/SLE , 30 Ranged/FCP, 15 AoE/ENT (Yes, I Know that's 105.). That's one reason I'm fond of the SLE Mu Shield on Def/Con. |
Likewise, the +3% RES proc is expensive, but it's pure icing.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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This is interesting to me because my main character Mouse Police is katana/regen. (For that matter, Organica is katana/regen -- but Mouse is my "badger").
When I first started IO'ing Mouse I tried to go the defense route, before I finally gave in and decided that building for defense on a regen character just wasn't the best way to do it. When I did that, I didn't scrap my build, I switched to my 2nd build and built a recharge-intensive build instead. So my first build is still there... haven't looked at it in a couple of years.
Money is not an object, so I might be tempted to try out one of these builds. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
I see a difference of
Recharge / HP / HPS / END
143 / Capped / 171+ / 4.1
123 / Capped / 176+ / 4.24
So 8% Endurance and 50% regen. Yeah, better to take the recharge over the small difference in regen and endurence. I hadn't noticed they were both capped. The resulting build is about 6% better in defense than the build I had before.
Hopefully I didn't gut this too badly.
I went with Doctored Wounds over Panacea
I gutted Fast Healing for Slots and dropped vengeance -for- Slots in Lockdown, Obliteration, DA, Buildup and soft-cap melee with one DA.
Then I re-ordered it to my normal build order.
This should be much better than my current build, which had considerably more recharge, but 2/3 of the defense.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- Hectmb-Dmg:50(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(3), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(3), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), Hectmb-Dam%:50(5), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(7)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 2: Reconstruction -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), Dct'dW-Heal:50(11)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I:50(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(11), HO:Enzym(13), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(15), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), Dct'dW-Heal:50(17)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(19)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg:50(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), Numna-Heal:50(23), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(23)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(25), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(25), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), Oblit-%Dam:50(29)
Level 20: Resilience -- GA-3defTpProc:50(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(29)
Level 22: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Aegis-ResDam:50(31), Aegis-Psi/Status:50(33)
Level 24: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(33)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), Mako-Dam%:50(36)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), Dct'dW-Heal:50(37), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(45)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- HO:Enzym(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(37)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(40), Erad-%Dam:30(40)
Level 35: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(40), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(42), GSFC-Build%:50(43)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- HO:Membr(A), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 41: Dark Blast -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(46)
Level 44: Shadow Meld -- HO:Membr(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(45)
Level 47: Soul Storm -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(48), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(48), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(50), Lock-%Hold:50(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- HO:Enzym(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(50)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(36)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A)
Code:
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OK so I think I found a balance I like....
Code:
I really just wanted GD to have a better slotting | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1426;708;1416;HEX;| |78DA6594596F125114C7EFC0500AA5504AE962CBD295AD8C606B34B5DA07DB6A179| |2B6B83C99666C6F014B060298E89B5FC068D48FE0FA31FC34C6AE3EFA8687FFB945| |122630BF3B67B967B97326F76AD523C49B15A179EF97CD7A7D3F7F5033AB555973E| |4CC42E9A0E7A9AC59B2E6144204AF34FB395996D2D8321BA66586DAD2557924ADBA| |34F66441928BD928552CFF8655943569358CAB856FA752291BDBD23C94B57AB154F| |55C3D574B56C18D877C55CAC37E2CD74B85628314636BD5D281916F98E5638A94AF| |BC2CEFE7CC7A43D65E8F526609FABF6DA588ABE910733621B2C2166724003D09B85| |380E7272120565B5E1ABC34F1586B6986778135D268ACD1B5093B7608013D614614| |E88D00EB646E6773618F8A96E81D891C9C9170A4207A4F2227766DEACE6582D32E7| |A15DDB7989E20E25F3B84879F3C5CBCAFCDC59A016598DE42E461B2E85325F4B185| |57593C2055BFAAA19FD3F57229C35CCA289732CA353C24731F9B3B7CDC8C416EC6D| |01360E21190DC03E6F3C01479F9557C3F9739C8D8204D40690223B40889A11B88A4| |9126A85A136CD225EC241951A98E2C7207321CF42610CE02D105E023998FA9D31E3| |B42B46801982C324AC0F40BC631A093D7B84A689C5B1556ADFAE06CA5C71B867EDB| |5A0FE13360E602983B619C03B153E01379459457E42E5EACE83230B904CCDC61DC0| |6122BA83E405E53AACF539FA199FE02C4BE02C96F8CEFC0FC0F6093BC6639963ECB| |A738C7E716E3A34DF09926F84C7FD13DAE5A1C478BFFD29CA758A2A596B8EC79EEC| |209191BAA0EE302BDBA7EC938619C02D933C639B04D1965D48619B5615671426F8F| |23FD5AE1B73B25698257ECE86AF848A4C128A2B7E7B1E91AA091626D73C78D09C5F| |A59C7FA79C73AD91532D325C9764916BA248B9D12177A7FEE6E7F0C849646F197FF| |45766D93163131C03393E69949DFC31B7FD1E91A87EB9F4E117F2B7603745775FC0| |36D8AE34A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Edit of Edit:
Deleted everything I previously said to replace it with this:
I approve of that last build, Iggy 
Although, something I saw after back-peddling into the same build to confirm I wasn't seeing anything else, Multistrikes in Lotus Drops would put Melee to the full 45% and still keep Ranged and AoE at a still modest 31.8 versus 33%
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Quote:
Good god, that's alarming.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Just popped in the new Mid's patch. Seeing a Regen and HP Capped Scrapper is heart-warming. Knowing that Spiritual increases that throughout the duration? I might melt from all the warm-fuzzy feelings.
And people were worried about Regen's Late Game in I20. 301.2 HP/s AV's, eat your heart out. |
and I was all proud of myself for having a peak regen of ~100 HP/s.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
|
OK, just trying to catch up here. I'm also going to a little more accurately account for recharge, which is going to lower survivability scores a bit from here on out. My recharge simplification was really helpful on the Barrier calculations, but much less so on Rebirth, which seems like what we're all sticking with. I'll just keep adding to this post as I calculate things. I'll plug in pet to hit as well to get an idea about minor to hit buffs or defense debuffs. (Edit: And 90% to hit. Hey, let's see what happens with major buffs and debuffs.)
John's Claws/Regen:
50% to hit = 2865
64% to hit = 1779
75% to hit = 1188
90% to hit = 818
Obitus' Katana/Regen:
50% to hit = 4307
64% to hit = 2601
75% to hit = 1723
90% to hit = 963
Linea Alba's "Cheap" Katana/Regen:
50% to hit = 4956
64% to hit = 4167
75% to hit = 3316
90% to hit = 1800
Iggy's Latest Katana/Regen:
50% to hit = 5716
64% to hit = 4874
75% to hit = 3416
90% to hit = 2231
Werner - corrected numbers for the earlier 38.6% ranged 36.1% AoE Katana/Regen:
50% to hit = 6186
64% to hit = 5197
75% to hit = 3741
90% to hit = 2055
Werner - slight tweak to earlier tweaks to Iggy's earlier build (below):
50% to hit = 6453
64% to hit = 5526
75% to hit = 3898
90% to hit = 2237
Code:
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
OK sacrificed some regen to get a tiny bit more range/aoe defense
Code:
Really starting to like where all these are going .... | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1426;710;1420;HEX;| |78DA6594D96E52511486F7612885525A4AE9CCD091A920D81A4DADF6C2B6DA81A42| |D0E57A639B6BB8025400E98E89D2F6034EA23383E86AFA1DE1BE9E4A577B8CEBF76| |9104027CFBFC6BADBD86CD26FB7CD52DC4CB15A179EE94F45A6D3F7760E8D5AA34E| |C593D5F3CE87A248DB2341C4208FFA5653F2B4B52A6B6F4BA5ED6032D75551EC972| |4DA6F6645E52885E2F56CADE8D72411AB25C4F5D2EFA762A95526A5BEA87D2A8158| |A55F7E573B558CEBBF090AB4A79D88BE57A315FA8936174AD5A3C48E5EA7AE99832| |E52ACF4AFB59BD5697C68B11AA2C469F5766897835ED62CE22444658A28C18608B0| |3AE04E0FE46F08955334A4394261E68A665681758238BC6169B3661C50E01A02BC8| |0803DD21609DDCADEC2EAC61614AAF49B27345C29E80F4862487663125AB6399E0B| |08A6E45D775A6DB8FFC5E7275F28616274BFDCA23B9859443E4D1A32AEC610F8FF2| |18FB8E26933F183F81BBE4DFABFC7BB9780F3736C48D8D706323DCD13D72EF63777| |B1F8F66804733F81098B80FC4F780F91C3045515E35502F373DC0D8208B4F597CC3| |B40888C1ABC8A491C5AF06E56FD24B58491956A50E2F62E3B13427BD06043340780| |17847EEA3EAEC478F902D9C07260B8C2230FD94710CD8286A5C1534CEF30BAAF9BD| |7598E5F18681DF16F321780ACC9C03730DC619103901DE53544845856E61E6E1656| |0720998B9C9B801C456D0BD8FA2A6D49CA73EC032FD11887C02E29F195F80F9AFC0| |2645CD722EDB2C9FE21C9F5B848F36C6671AE333FD45DF5135E22846FC976E7D821| |52DB1C46DCFF3141AE49C527DA4CE31AB2B178C06E304C89C32CE806DAA28AD364C| |AB0D338A13B6D6E5A4B7997EBB5D49123C62C7A6AE22491A9C42B6D6ED6C3AFBE98| |2B1B5B9E3C27DC5FA71DBFA49DB3ADE9132DDA1643A94850E65B15D7162F667AED6| |5F83D09268FEE2BFA4699BB48888FEDBF88D9FB73B47E1FCA75DE2FF8A5D1F7DABC| |AFF01D6AFE4D6| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quote:
50% to hit = 6412|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
OK sacrificed some regen to get a tiny bit more range/aoe defense
|
64% to hit = 5436
75% to hit = 3838
90% to hit = 2166
Hmmm, that's pretty nice. Almost the same as my latest post, but with a properly-slotted Golden Dragonfly. I'm not sure exactly where the jump came from, as I wouldn't think a percent or two of defense would do it. I suppose I could have miscalculated before.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Really starting to like where all these are going ....
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I think you might have put in the numbers with only 1x DA|
Originally Posted by Werner
I'm not sure exactly where the jump came from, as I wouldn't think a percent or two of defense would do it. I suppose I could have miscalculated before.
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And I think in this case, I might go the extra bit of % to have it at 45% melee with only 1x DA
Following Iggy's lead on Golden Dragonfly and Summon Widow:
50% to hit = 6406Basically identical numbers, but then, they're almost identical builds. Mine has a little more recharge and a little less defense. I'd probably go with the defense (Iggy's build). But here's what I did:
64% to hit = 5470
75% to hit = 3834
90% to hit = 2199
Code:
Edit: Things I'm liking with the more recent builds that may be less obvious than the raw survivability:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1426;710;1420;HEX;| |78DA65945B4F1A5110C7CF814504114544A572F3CA7D0BD5A68DB5F5A16AAB4282D| |2CB5363B67A84AD64210B4DDAB77E81A64DDB8FD0EBC7E8A7698AA27DEC1B9D9D39| |521236B0BFB333FF393367CE9E2DBEDAF430F6668371EFFD9AD66C1E968F4CADD11| |0A6A3A855F4A3A1A7C23484E9648C05AE3C8745511342DDD35A9AA1857BD64D7122| |8CA6500F44454088D6D2EB866FC7A80A53182DF56A3056AAD76B6A4168C7C26C56F| |586E7EAB9A11B15373E941B421C8FE2705BAF545BE0086E35F423B5DCD26AA790A9| |5C7F593B2C6ACD96305FCF406549F8BFB54AC4ABEB60CB36C6F2CC962024114A0AE| |14E233C3F017EB66945718C5258C86E79C6E7101351C4720C118F20B640CEA59C93| |5C092386483044F2610ADE06B99DE4CC1E6396E91D981C542673A4D1F41E4C4E6EB| |34C76E73AC06967C392EE5B444F805B521F485D34A1CD45A671A9C8EE61CA29508C| |90828F90C22B150FC0352A8B1FA53ABDB486295AC30CAD61868A7F08F231923BC61| |EE34C138F1093FB88A903C4B52780300B95F1691EA27C32BF8FD69725EC80C72F3D| |FE698C99BC8199387802B227812E5CCC0E966959EAF42AA5C921423711913C22B68| |2F808F2A0DCFBE009668B55107355828E58784138452810352B0B9AA5564564AB3E| |38ADF268C2F06F9BF51039472C5E2096DB840E227E86F80451511915BD8DAF596C0| |D317707B1B84EB88B486EE0EAFD10352FFB3CFF193D0B5F10F1AF88D437C27744E6| |076217A296648796681793B48B49DAC514ED628636FA17DC13B2C5096CF15F38F56| |9B2F0F41A2D3B435D68835895EB50DBD8ABEB678473420791BF205C220A50514E4E| |989313E625434AEF70C2CF4A5FE8B764015E5652E4510413475154E99DCEAE6B1CC| |E1279BB25B79584C6CFFAC6CFFBC6A98194B9014B7EC0B2326059EDB7B8B0F71D77| |EF2BC07816177FF9DFC4F92E0CE22C7B0FDFF18B7E7102C57FFA4DF459D8F7C35D5| |6FE0F1240E22D| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
- Psionic still soft-capped with one Shadow Meld
- One purple from normal soft cap on ranged and AoE
- This really has quite decent DPS when, say, the AV is being tanked and we don't have to use Divine Avalanche or do the dance of the Regen clicks
- Less set muling than I started with, though Summon Widow is pretty glaring (Unless she's actually any good in a fight, like extra DPS when the AV is tanked? She's up four minutes of every five.)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I've been doing 2xDA, but I might well have accidentally done 1xDA for the earlier numbers that were suspiciously low. Alas, I've overlayed them with more recent stuff now, so we'll never know, but it's probably not important now.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I think you might have put in the numbers with only 1x DA
And I think in this case, I might go the extra bit of % to have it at 45% melee with only 1x DA |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
And here's a build that most could probably afford... (Werner and his endless supply of dough... 
Panacea and those +3 HOs.. geeezzz)
Code:
I might actually have to go with this on my next respec
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Quote:
Iggy's "Affordable" Build:|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
And here's a build that most could probably afford...
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50% to hit = 6018
64% to hit = 5098
75% to hit = 3988
90% to hit = 2154
Really quite nice. 6-7% worse in normal situations, but a bit BETTER than the no budget limit version when the buffs and debuffs start. Maybe I should add a little melee/lethal. I would like to be a bit more solid under buffs and debuffs. I like consistent performance.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
These look good. Really good. But repeating my personal problem in graphical format:
That makes it really hard for me to pull the trigger, particularly given the extra effort and lessened DPS that would go into pulling off that level of survivability on the Regen. I really hope SOMEONE builds one, though. Something like one of these builds needs to be played.
I suppose I need to remind myself of the pros. Things like "Regen stores up survivability and then can use it in a burst. It has better peak survivability than your Katana/Dark does." And like "Your way of calculating survivability underplays the effect of the drastic difference in hit points between the two builds." And even, "It's a really, really nice build. Don't you want it to exist? Don't you want to have one? Don't you want to prove the Regen naysayers wrong?" But it just feels like even at it's best, it would just be equal, and for that matter, that my two top end builds would both be Katana, which might be a bit much. Eh, whatever. I'm taking things too seriously.
Edit: To give a sense of how crazy these numbers are, Turiel, my Fire/Shield, has a survivability score of 517 at 50% to hit (concept character, but no expense spared). He can do the RWZ challenge with a passable success rate. Remember when that was our measure of survivability? Times have changed.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Okay, so now that there's a flow-chart involved, I've got to ask something in terms of how the survivability is measuring everything on a note of curiosity*.|
Originally Posted by Werner
-Snip-
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There's obviously some main factors like Resistance and Defense being measure as primary aspects, but it's some of the smaller things that have my attention. Regen, for one, and HP (which you said wasn't taken into full account). So what are the full scale of major factors? The Score-Value of Claws/Regen with 20% Across Def, and similar Regen potential, versus Kat/Regen with 45/32/32 have ~3,000 point difference? Seems under-weighted. Defense aside, between the two, there's only a ~300% Regen difference under IH, ~100% on base line (severe rounding on previously known numbers). Going by the difference between Kat/DA build and Kat/Regen (8200ish to 6200ish), Regen doesn't seem to be the major swinger in score, so 10-30% Def difference is causing such a huge gap?
Because (and this is not disputing the validity of what your spreadsheet calculates) I'm seeing a scenario play out in my head of a Kat/Regen (Tom) and a Kat/DA (Jerry) fighting equivalent swarms of Ugly.
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Originally Posted by Scenario
Tom can spike his defense up as needed, and swelling regen brings him to full on a regular basis--or, if nothing else, every 60 second cycle of SM/MoG/SM. Jerry takes an equally impressive pounding, but has consistent levels of defense that mitigate his overall complaints, and Resistances that chunk down the remainder. Eventually Jerry will get lower in HP, and hit Dark Regen which will drag him blissfully back up to his ~1800 HP. Tome looks over and thinks "Yeah, pretty good. He's taking his hits and keeps on trucking," when another large chunk of damage hits him; Tom, however, has 2400 HP, and the 1900 damage he just took would have surely killed Jerry--but Rebirth just cycled over and gave Tom a massive boost of ~1500, and in less than a second, he'll be back up to full with a new found target for his rage. Despite the fact that he's still taking 300-400 points of damage every couple of seconds, Tom doesn't care. Every 90 seconds he gets another spike of health from Dull Pain for another ~2200 if he needs it, let alone the fact he's healing back 200+ HP/s and has Reconstruction one bound-keystroke away.
The Kat/DA has tons of preventative maintenance going like an awesome Warranty on a New Car, but is too broke if something happens that isn't covered by their policies. The Kat/Regen, though, is like a fixer-upper with an owner who has so much money you'd swear the guy was storing a printing mill in his basement and doesn't care about the costs of maintenance when the car inevitably breaks down. Is there really a difference in the between stages? No, not really. If you factor out Moral and Ethical care for the waste of green, 2400 HP is virtually becoming 1800 HP with 70% Resistance paid out in "cash", with a down payment every two minutes into your personal banking account for another 1500, on top of your trust-fund dropping 2200 every 90-120/s depending on banking latency. In that position, Tom's rather wealthy indeed. He can afford to burn 2700 every two minutes; and even if he has to dip into his cookie-jar savings every once and a while, he can do so without penalty because it refills every 15 seconds and gives him a 1200 grant. This is also ignoring the fact that Tom's Fixer-Upper got a recent overhaul and is sporting some solid Defense w/ Nitro and baseline Resistances to help stop the engine junking up on him. It makes me start to think Jerry's Car just doesn't look as cool anymore. |
X²+Y²+Z+A= 8,200?
X+Y+Z³+A³= 6,200?
While I don't have my own Regen in a positional to quantifiably say yes or no on how I20 Regen is going to be, I don't think it's fair to discount it yet. We may have the potential to "Change the Name of the Game", when it comes to survivability tests. When things are being moved to caring less about the prevention of the damage, and more about the raw ability to not care that you're taking it.
/end crazy and tired post
*Curiosity Killed the Cat, yeah? Was thinking, what if the Cat was */Regen? X3
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
How about a bit more lower r/a defense but getting IH and SM a little faster as well as getting some more regen