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Just want to note that I didn't quite characterize the quoted comparison fairly. The cycle time of Combustion in this instance is ~7.46 seconds, not ~10.6. Over a longer period of time, spammed Combustion will yield more procs.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
I don't want to be contentious, but neither of the above-quoted statements is necessarily true. Combustion's full cycle time isn't any faster than the once-per-10 seconds proc check on toggle powers. At best, it's a tie: 3.168 activation time + ~4.3 recharge time + 3.168 activation time = 10.636 seconds.
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My point was that Combustion isn't noticeably better over the short term, and is arguably worse in the final analysis because of the opportunity cost of tying yourself up for 3+ seconds per cast. Combustion isn't something you're likely to cast lightly, whereas Hot Feet stays on no matter what you decide to do. Usually I'd tend to advocate putting a proc in a click power rather than a toggle, but in this case I think the specifics favor Hot Feet rather heavily.
And that's a lot of words thrown at a relatively small slotting decision. Apologies
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Hey, different strokes. All else being equal, it is better to have slow enhancement than not. I've also agreed that your slotting scheme is probably the best one for the context of this thread. If your playstyle favors slow slotting more than mine does, then that's fine; I can't tell you you're wrong about your subjective preferences.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Dismemberment
Again, I think this is a matter of play style. I notice a significant, negative impact on Hot Feet when it isn't capped for slow. Often when I'm speeding through things, I won't bother using Fire Cages (especially when Flashfire isn't up) and just focus on DPS instead while relying on the mitigation and slow from Hot Feet. While RoF will help a bit with this, it isn't always up when I need it.
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I don't think it's fair to say that Hot Feet is a mediocre power without slow slotting, is all. For Blasters, maybe. Doms and Controllers, no.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Got a chance to look over the build in the above-quoted post, and it looks very good. Nice job to both Lifewind and Silas. However -- and I realize that this merry-go-round can go on forever |
Originally Posted by Silas
So I really liked the look of Lifewinds build and what he got. I made the tiniest tweak to it (moved 2nd CJ slot to Weave for LotG def/end, same defense, less end drain), here's what I've got:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.94 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! [snipped for brevity] Basically just dropped the second slot in CJ and moved it to Weave for a LotG def/end. Same defense numbers, somewhat less end drain. I actually went ahead and compared the end drain numbers to what I'm currently running since Lifewinds build has more recovery. Current build drains 1.27 a second, 3.27 recovery, not counting the P.Shifter proc. Difference of 2.02, Lifewinds build has higher end drain (1.57) but more recovery (3.67) so the difference is 2.1 end/sec. Only a difference of .08, which isn't a big deal. I know my net recovery is actually significantly higher, due to the Shifter and Panacea procs, let alone the huge end/sec gain from Domination refilling my bar every 67 seconds. His build also has the Panacea proc in it however. I'm aware this is really rough back-of-napkin math, what I'm getting at is that what I'm currently running is more than workable with Consume. Its up when I need it, its not a crutch power for me to function. So that build gets what I wanted, both Combustion and Hecas in Incinerate. Hooray! I will arguably burn more endurance with AoEs since I have yet another one, but I think Combustion is pretty good DPE. If I wanted to go for Cardiac Core Paragon, I'd have even less end drain though I doubt I'll bother. Other Incarnate stuff wise, I'll be going for the Rebirth Destiny. The heal and solid regen over time seems like it'd be best for this build rather than the massive spike but low over-time benefit from Barrier. Anyone else have ideas/tweaks for the above build? I'm pretty satisfied with it but still welcome to ideas. I've really enjoyed this thread |
-- here's an alternative:Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1447;693;1386;HEX;| |78DA6593EB6E125110C7CFB28B584A0BF44AA5F44269B95960DBAAD1DA18D3DAC40| |A86DA448D5F9A4DD9C026080430EA379F4113AB363E851A7D106F2FE1E58BC67AC3| |D9F91F281102F99D33F36766CE9C39B97B1B1E211E5C108A77BD6C341ABB1BD5DB5| |6C56856EBCE9C51B4F65C79A360DC352A2E21C454C7B7BB5EAD34EBD5726AD3AA9B| |EDCDF491FB62A361DC2937C96DD6EFB777FECB959259372BCD547BE1CE5729C64EC| |D340B03BCDCB48AA5A655297A7897358D1A6DBCED4DC1AC374A562D78A966ED2173| |CE6834ED0C9DCC012A3341BF3955C84F4B156F1D428484EF23F09E31F481F1CDD1D| |1D1973E2242FF5460D19417045D385E02AF18DA6BE00DE33B0550A55C4D3A6CD3B1| |0410671C8F02314698FAE8E4F02DC599E4088BC0024571C1E3749D65F1D01A63EC1| |C636A1538CF88AE925253C50FDAF5C9FC7DCF085131F39431FB04D8070E1851CAD2| |2FE5FD5739D2DC15600BC8322239ECA8DC01D99E8159AEF3901C5E69F2A2F41805F| |5CB66FBDF715F03687602AD4FA0E70A451B96BAE16D42588C5C03F28CC00E4325DD| |A86CD2E892CA3DD0191A79C6E1718CDB125DCC9C4123DAFC49A92690C439D1E2539| |CF805FC664CFE01FEA29D8203DB8A20DF7BCB19843C027904F228E48B88A8E35F63| |544E08E58810CAF193695AD63E0D535A5636ECB20F0757F8C061F7427FCEB053CCC| |B5B99D739C3420648018B2822CD18A466C7A43C86A18C6344E318D83846348111F5| |923C29E5C9531CE1E40AB00C2CE16CA7193E92A7648F5376B343221D51ECE149471| |923748E8C9C800C8E38A9753D37DCAC1B37EBC6957A70C1615B87D8AD84F6FFD3CB| |F458F41ECB728F65A5C792EDB6A87CA8BCD679D54261519FAFF3705B9FDCE455BAB| |D5F8E2C8AB2C5C71EBCCE47FDDCA3FD7A6451957D4EE779888B7A8C6979C4D876DB| |D190F146D7FA66D7FA56D77A8DDE8A2ED7FF0087CBF9AD| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
- Basically the same S/L DEF (32.3% versus 32.2%), but higher DEF to all other types (19.1%, or within two small Lucks of the soft cap if you have the Inspiration-boosting Accolade).
- Basically the same S/L RES (54.4% versus 54.1%)
- 2.5% less global recharge (193.8% versus 196.3%). Effectively equivalent. Hasten is still permanent with 2 slots, and Domination still permanent even if you don't use Hasten.
- 3% less global damage (10% versus 13%).
- ~1% fewer hitponts (129% versus 130.1%)
- Better drain/recovery ratio (a net difference of 0.17 EPS before the Panacea proc is considered). Note that the over-time endurance benefit of the Panacea proc is (0.075 * 0.2 chance to fire * 112.25 Max End) / 10 second proc window = 0.168 EPS. Basically I've skipped the proc without losing any over-time recovery benefit, though I have added other, potentially expensive and/or hard-to-find enhancements to the build (a Gladiator's Armor RES/END, in Tough, which could reasonably be replaced with a little shuffling around, and three Enzymes). And yes, I included Maneuvers. I didn't include Tactics in the above calculation, because you shouldn't need or even want to run that unless you're in a very rare situation.
- Same global accuracy (96%).
Another thing is that I like to slot my AoE immobilize as an attack if I can get away with it. I admit that that sort of sloting scheme is more important on Controllers than Doms -- and it's clear that Silas will have more than enough AoE damage either way, but like the Concealment mules, this is just one of those things that I like to do out of principle. Anyway, Fire Cages' average damage goes from 19.7 to 50.11.
Finally -- and this is a much smaller thing -- I feel the slotting of Hot Feet is better now. The slotting of Char is very slightly worse -- lacking the purple damage proc and losing a teensy amount of hold duration -- but I figure you're going to be using Char situationally anyway. YMMV.
Cost might be an issue; I haven't looked at the market in anything like a serious way in quite awhile (used to play the market actively, but lost interest when details about I-20 were announced because I don't feel like running more than 2-3 characters through the Incarnate content anyway, and those builds are already finished). Still, I figure the Panacea proc is far more expensive than the extra Glad Armor, and the Enzymes, though very costly, will be partially offset by the fact that you don't need the two Ribosomes in Fire Shield. (Edit: Come to think of it, you'd also save some cash because you wouldn't need the fifth LoTG anymore, either.)
Whatever build you go with, I think you'll be playing a Cadillac.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Originally Posted by Obitus
Hey, different strokes. All else being equal, it is better to have slow enhancement than not. I've also agreed that your slotting scheme is probably the best one for the context of this thread. If your playstyle favors slow slotting more than mine does, then that's fine; I can't tell you you're wrong about your subjective preferences.
I don't think it's fair to say that Hot Feet is a mediocre power without slow slotting, is all. For Blasters, maybe. Doms and Controllers, no. |
I don't think Hot feet is a mediocre power w/o slow slotting for doms. I just wouldn't use it if I didn't have a aoe immobilize cuz if I remember correctly, Hot Feet has a fear effect ( as does ROF so that's fear patches x 2 :P )
If you look at both the powers in detail , Hot Feet and Combustion, one has a bigger AOE and can hit more trgts , while the other has a 5 feet smaller AOE and hits less trgts, but does way more dmg.. etc etc. I am pretty sure that the damage from Hot Feet will pale in comparsion to Combustion, but some peeps like their PBAOE toggles lol.
If I was slotting my fire/fire toon, and I was expecting to be all up in mobs, I would definitely take Combustion over Hot Feet, thats just my cup of tea. And if I did need to take Hot Feet, i would slot it full of procs, or just make it a IO mule for wht ever bonuses I needed. I definitely wouldn't slot it for slows.
Sounds good Obitus, I'll take a look when I get home. Having Leadership instead of Concealment sounds good, having Vengeance is always nice. Are you using Maneuvers to get to the 32% def though or mainly as a LotG mule? I ask because Maneuvers is another kinda end heavy toggle.
I wouldn't worry too much about prices though, I've already spent a lot on this build 
a little more won't hurt, heh.
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Quote:
I'm with you. Blasters are the only AT (off the top of my head) that have access to Hot Feet without also having guaranteed access to a mag 4+ AoE immobilize, though. That's why I said I might be more interested in slotting it for slow if we were talking about Blasters. Then again, like you, I probably wouldn't take Hot Feet on a Blaster in the first place. |
Originally Posted by Lifewind
I don't think Hot feet is a mediocre power w/o slow slotting for doms. I just wouldn't use it if I didn't have a aoe immobilize cuz if I remember correctly, Hot Feet has a fear effect ( as does ROF so that's fear patches x 2 :P )
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If you look at both the powers in detail , Hot Feet and Combustion, one has a bigger AOE and can hit more trgts , while the other has a 5 feet smaller AOE and hits less trgts, but does way more dmg.. etc etc. I am pretty sure that the damage from Hot Feet will pale in comparsion to Combustion, but some peeps like their PBAOE toggles lol. If I was slotting my fire/fire toon, and I was expecting to be all up in mobs, I would definitely take Combustion over Hot Feet, thats just my cup of tea. And if I did need to take Hot Feet, i would slot it full of procs, or just make it a IO mule for wht ever bonuses I needed. I definitely wouldn't slot it for slows. |
In any case, I don't think Fire/Fire Doms should generally put themselves in a position where they have to make a mutually exclusive choice between the two powers. If you have a really tight build for whatever reason, then sure I guess, but as this thread demonstrates, there are very few build goals that can't be achieved in many different ways.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I did use Maneuvers for DEF, but Maneuvers is taken into account in the drain/recovery breakdown in the previous post. Even with Maneuvers, and even without the Panacea proc, my build's endurance situation is effectively equivalent to the other build's. (3.85 EPS recovery and 1.36 EPS drain versus 3.67 EPS recovery and 1.35 EPS drain -- so I net +0.17 EPS relative to the other build, but the other build's Panacea proc clocks in at ~0.17 EPS, offsetting my gain.)|
Originally Posted by Silas
Sounds good Obitus, I'll take a look when I get home. Having Leadership instead of Concealment sounds good, having Vengeance is always nice. Are you using Maneuvers to get to the 32% def though or mainly as a LotG mule? I ask because Maneuvers is another kinda end heavy toggle.
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That is, unless I missed something rather huge. The only toggle I included that I didn't mean for you to run full-time is Tactics, which is a mule for Rectified Reticle, and a buff for extreme situations, though frankly those situations are so rare I'd probably forget I even had Tactics and use Insights instead
(Oh, and I also shut off Sprint for the numbers above. Your build had Sprint on by default. Regardless, the relationship remains the same. If you're comfortable with one build's Recovery/drain, then you should be equally comfortable with the other's.)
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I wouldn't worry too much about prices though, I've already spent a lot on this build a little more won't hurt, heh.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Ah right, fair enough
And yeah, no budget builds are fun, nice to be able to put in whatever, free of mortal concerns like funds haha. It's all monopoly money anyway, easy come easy go. I'd much rather have IOd characters I enjoy than a big stack of Internet Money :3
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Quote:
Obitus,Silas, this build looks good/sound also on paper, and for the most part is mathematically better than my build I suggested b4. But I will have to really look at all the builds again, the last one took me 10 min to come up with. I was wondering how Obitus was gettin much better end recovery than me, for awhile till I noticed I had sprint on lol. Anyways I will be looking at Mids again and see what I can do... looks like my "Mids Dom Jedi Skills" are being tested again............
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Originally Posted by Obitus
Got a chance to look over the build in the above-quoted post, and it looks very good. Nice job to both Lifewind and Silas. However -- and I realize that this merry-go-round can go on forever
-- here's an alternative:Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1447;693;1386;HEX;| |78DA6593EB6E125110C7CFB28B584A0BF44AA5F44269B95960DBAAD1DA18D3DAC40| |A86DA448D5F9A4DD9C026080430EA379F4113AB363E851A7D106F2FE1E58BC67AC3| |D9F91F281102F99D33F36766CE9C39B97B1B1E211E5C108A77BD6C341ABB1BD5DB5| |6C56856EBCE9C51B4F65C79A360DC352A2E21C454C7B7BB5EAD34EBD5726AD3AA9B| |EDCDF491FB62A361DC2937C96DD6EFB777FECB959259372BCD547BE1CE5729C64EC| |D340B03BCDCB48AA5A655297A7897358D1A6DBCED4DC1AC374A562D78A966ED2173| |CE6834ED0C9DCC012A3341BF3955C84F4B156F1D428484EF23F09E31F481F1CDD1D| |1D1973E2242FF5460D19417045D385E02AF18DA6BE00DE33B0550A55C4D3A6CD3B1| |0410671C8F02314698FAE8E4F02DC599E4088BC0024571C1E3749D65F1D01A63EC1| |C636A1538CF88AE925253C50FDAF5C9FC7DCF085131F39431FB04D8070E1851CAD2| |2FE5FD5739D2DC15600BC8322239ECA8DC01D99E8159AEF3901C5E69F2A2F41805F| |5CB66FBDF715F03687602AD4FA0E70A451B96BAE16D42588C5C03F28CC00E4325DD| |A86CD2E892CA3DD0191A79C6E1718CDB125DCC9C4123DAFC49A92690C439D1E2539| |CF805FC664CFE01FEA29D8203DB8A20DF7BCB19843C027904F228E48B88A8E35F63| |544E08E58810CAF193695AD63E0D535A5636ECB20F0757F8C061F7427FCEB053CCC| |B5B99D739C3420648018B2822CD18A466C7A43C86A18C6344E318D83846348111F5| |923C29E5C9531CE1E40AB00C2CE16CA7193E92A7648F5376B343221D51ECE149471| |923748E8C9C800C8E38A9753D37DCAC1B37EBC6957A70C1615B87D8AD84F6FFD3CB| |F458F41ECB728F65A5C792EDB6A87CA8BCD679D54261519FAFF3705B9FDCE455BAB| |D5F8E2C8AB2C5C71EBCCE47FDDCA3FD7A6451957D4EE779888B7A8C6979C4D876DB| |D190F146D7FA66D7FA56D77A8DDE8A2ED7FF0087CBF9AD| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Another thing is that I like to slot my AoE immobilize as an attack if I can get away with it. I admit that that sort of sloting scheme is more important on Controllers than Doms -- and it's clear that Silas will have more than enough AoE damage either way, but like the Concealment mules, this is just one of those things that I like to do out of principle. Anyway, Fire Cages' average damage goes from 19.7 to 50.11. Finally -- and this is a much smaller thing -- I feel the slotting of Hot Feet is better now. The slotting of Char is very slightly worse -- lacking the purple damage proc and losing a teensy amount of hold duration -- but I figure you're going to be using Char situationally anyway. YMMV. Cost might be an issue; I haven't looked at the market in anything like a serious way in quite awhile (used to play the market actively, but lost interest when details about I-20 were announced because I don't feel like running more than 2-3 characters through the Incarnate content anyway, and those builds are already finished). Still, I figure the Panacea proc is far more expensive than the extra Glad Armor, and the Enzymes, though very costly, will be partially offset by the fact that you don't need the two Ribosomes in Fire Shield. (Edit: Come to think of it, you'd also save some cash because you wouldn't need the fifth LoTG anymore, either.) Whatever build you go with, I think you'll be playing a Cadillac. |
I generally am of the opinion that builds aren't rocket science, but ... wow. These are awesome. I've been looking into respec'ing into /Fire for the Incarnate trials - /Mace is nice, but just doesn't offer enough to teams, IMO. Love the Tarantula, but the little guy's useless on teams, and the Imps are a borderline case.
This gave me a lot to think about, particularly the last builds from Obitus and Silas / Lifewind, which are world-class. I'm probably leaning more toward a 32.5% ranged build for playstyle issues. I just love blasting from a distance. Also avoids the end drain on Hot Feet, letting me run Musculature, which is nice for all the control powers that get underslotted for damage.
Definitely enjoyed reading the masters at work.
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The not having an extra ranged attack that does decent damage is a deal breaker with me on most of these builds. There are lots of times for tough encounters where do you don't want to be in melee range (even with a high defense build) in which case Incinerate becomes useless. What exactly are you guys planning on using as a ranged attack chain? You can somewhat fill in a few gaps occasionally with Fireball, but will be left with some pretty large holes in the attack chain or using extremely poorly slotted attacks.
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Originally Posted by Obitus
...
Another thing is that I like to slot my AoE immobilize as an attack if I can get away with it. I admit that that sort of sloting scheme is more important on Controllers than Doms -- and it's clear that Silas will have more than enough AoE damage either way, but like the Concealment mules, this is just one of those things that I like to do out of principle. Anyway, Fire Cages' average damage goes from 19.7 to 50.11. ... |
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I like this, especially the addition of Vengeance. If anyone on the team dies, as long as I'm quick on the trigger I'll be softcapped to all types and positions, not to mention the huge +tohit and +damage. |
Originally Posted by Obitus
[...]
Build Comparison:
Another thing is that I like to slot my AoE immobilize as an attack if I can get away with it. I admit that that sort of sloting scheme is more important on Controllers than Doms -- and it's clear that Silas will have more than enough AoE damage either way, but like the Concealment mules, this is just one of those things that I like to do out of principle. Anyway, Fire Cages' average damage goes from 19.7 to 50.11. Finally -- and this is a much smaller thing -- I feel the slotting of Hot Feet is better now. The slotting of Char is very slightly worse -- lacking the purple damage proc and losing a teensy amount of hold duration -- but I figure you're going to be using Char situationally anyway. YMMV. Cost might be an issue; I haven't looked at the market in anything like a serious way in quite awhile (used to play the market actively, but lost interest when details about I-20 were announced because I don't feel like running more than 2-3 characters through the Incarnate content anyway, and those builds are already finished). Still, I figure the Panacea proc is far more expensive than the extra Glad Armor, and the Enzymes, though very costly, will be partially offset by the fact that you don't need the two Ribosomes in Fire Shield. (Edit: Come to think of it, you'd also save some cash because you wouldn't need the fifth LoTG anymore, either.) Whatever build you go with, I think you'll be playing a Cadillac. |
One thing I'm not sure about is whether 123% recharge is enough for permadom without Hasten. I'm pretty sure 125% is the threshold. With 123%, Dom is recharging in 89.39s, the activation time on Domination is 1.32s so that's a total 90.71s cycle time.
Now, Domination is a little screwy because Dom can still go off when the bar is dropping, so I'm not sure whether it'll work. From what I've seen of my own Doms with 125% rech, where I see the bar sometimes dropping a little as it goes off, I've got my doubts.
With 125% recharge, Domination recharges in 88.89, plus the 1.32 cast time is a cycle time of 90.21 seconds. Only a .5 second difference, not sure whether or not Dom will drop. Hrm. What numbers did you use to work out that Domination would still be perma without Hasten?
Of course, this is only really an issue when I'm afk, chatting or whatever, so that I can maintain Dom. Not a huge issue, given Frenzy. But it'd be nice to have. Its gotta be possible, heh.
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I used the following: 200 seconds / 90 seconds = 2.222, or +122.2% global recharge.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Now, Domination is a little screwy because Dom can still go off when the bar is dropping, so I'm not sure whether it'll work. From what I've seen of my own Doms with 125% rech, where I see the bar sometimes dropping a little as it goes off, I've got my doubts.
With 125% recharge, Domination recharges in 88.89, plus the 1.32 cast time is a cycle time of 90.21 seconds. Only a .5 second difference, not sure whether or not Dom will drop. Hrm. What numbers did you use to work out that Domination would still be perma without Hasten? |
In principle, as long as the activation starts before the Domination bar collapses, the power should overlap just fine (and like you, I've witnessed that very thing several times). If all you're worried about is maintaining the power when you're not paying attention (or playing actively), then the autopower should work fine with 123% recharge.
More overlap would be great, but it's really only important in situations where you might be activating other powers to prevent Dom from refreshing the moment it's recharged. In those situations, presumably, you'll have Hasten going, which of course will increase the overlap cushion dramatically (20+ seconds, off the top of my head).
I can't say that I've ever played a Dominator with exactly +123.8% recharge, so there is a possibility of a practical quirk that invalidates my math. What I can say is that I have zero problems managing Hasten/Dom on a character with +95% in global recharge from IOs. Even when I do lapse, Frenzy is up often enough that I never have to worry about rebuilding the Dom bar. Frenzy will be up even faster for you.
The only times that Frenzy isn't sufficient to keep my Domination up full-time are really bad (exceedingly rare) team situations where I die (and resurrect) more than once in a very short period of time.
As always, YMMV. I can understand why you'd want to have absolutely iron-clad perma Domination. Put it this way: I'm 99% sure that 123.8% recharge will be enough for what you have in mind.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Your preferences tend to match mine, for what it's worth. But Silas has made it pretty clear that he's not terribly concerned about having a continuous ranged attack chain -- or at least, he's demonstrated that he's more concerned with keeping his hold slotted as a hold.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Dismemberment
The not having an extra ranged attack that does decent damage is a deal breaker with me on most of these builds. There are lots of times for tough encounters where do you don't want to be in melee range (even with a high defense build) in which case Incinerate becomes useless. What exactly are you guys planning on using as a ranged attack chain? You can somewhat fill in a few gaps occasionally with Fireball, but will be left with some pretty large holes in the attack chain or using extremely poorly slotted attacks. I guess if the build is for farming, this isn't such an issue.
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And with Char slotted as a hold, his ranged DPS isn't going to be that much lower than someone else's with Char slotted as an attack. I don't have access to the numbers right now, but just as a very rough example, if we suppose that Char does ~50 damage unslotted, Blast does ~200 damage slotted, and Blaze does ~380 damage slotted -- and if we suppose that those attacks chain seamlessly (which they won't, but it's very very close) -- then:
With unslotted Char, you're dealing (50 + 200 + 380 damage) / (1.32 + 1.452 + 1.188 activation) = 159.09 DPS
With slotted Char, you're dealing (~100 + 200 + 380 damage) / (1.32 + 1.452 + 1.188) = 171.7 DPS. That's like an 8% difference.
That proportional difference drops further when you consider Embrace of Fire. It drops further still if you can position yourself so that the target is sitting at the very edge of Hot Feet's area (another ~15 DPS by itself). Toss on the occasional Fireball and the difference drops even more. As a bonus, you're stacking lots of hold magnitude on the target.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Ah, okay. So it should still work then. That's good to know. Yeah, the only time it'd matter is when not actively playing. Whenever I'm actually running my Dom I'll have Hasten so there'll be plenty of overlap, as you said. |
Originally Posted by Obitus
I used the following: 200 seconds / 90 seconds = 2.222, or +122.2% global recharge.
In principle, as long as the activation starts before the Domination bar collapses, the power should overlap just fine (and like you, I've witnessed that very thing several times). If all you're worried about is maintaining the power when you're not paying attention (or playing actively), then the autopower should work fine with 123% recharge. More overlap would be great, but it's really only important in situations where you might be activating other powers to prevent Dom from refreshing the moment it's recharged. In those situations, presumably, you'll have Hasten going, which of course will increase the overlap cushion dramatically (20+ seconds, off the top of my head). I can't say that I've ever played a Dominator with exactly +123.8% recharge, so there is a possibility of a practical quirk that invalidates my math. What I can say is that I have zero problems managing Hasten/Dom on a character with +95% in global recharge from IOs. Even when I do lapse, Frenzy is up often enough that I never have to worry about rebuilding the Dom bar. Frenzy will be up even faster for you. The only times that Frenzy isn't sufficient to keep my Domination up full-time are really bad (exceedingly rare) team situations where I die (and resurrect) more than once in a very short period of time. As always, YMMV. I can understand why you'd want to have absolutely iron-clad perma Domination. Put it this way: I'm 99% sure that 123.8% recharge will be enough for what you have in mind. |
Quick question though, since you said Frenzy would be up even faster for me. Are you sure Frenzy is affected by global recharge? I didn't think it was.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Dismemberment
The not having an extra ranged attack that does decent damage is a deal breaker with me on most of these builds. There are lots of times for tough encounters where do you don't want to be in melee range (even with a high defense build) in which case Incinerate becomes useless. What exactly are you guys planning on using as a ranged attack chain? You can somewhat fill in a few gaps occasionally with Fireball, but will be left with some pretty large holes in the attack chain or using extremely poorly slotted attacks.
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Maybe its possible to have the benefits of both slottings. Putting a single Apoc Dam in there would make a sizeable difference to the damage (58.11 base to 88.91). It'd just be a question of where that slot could be pulled from.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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You know, I can't say for sure now that you mention it. I guess I just assumed it was affected by global recharge because it's up far more often than I need it. It sure doesn't feel like 5-6 minutes (whatever the base cooldown is).|
Originally Posted by Silas
Quick question though, since you said Frenzy would be up even faster for me. Are you sure Frenzy is affected by global recharge? I didn't think it was.
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It wouldn't shock me if the devs made alignment powers immune to recharge. That seems to be en vogue, these days. Then again, there are a lot of Accolade/Booster/Temp powers that are affected by global recharge, so there's no conclusive precedent. When I next get a chance to log into the game, I'll see if I can time it.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Well, I just did the super-scientific test on my Stalker of hitting Frenzy, waiting a second, then hitting Hasten to see if Frenzy got any bigger. It didn't. I'm pretty sure the alignment powers aren't affected by recharge. Demonic is though, so that's okay |
Originally Posted by Obitus
You know, I can't say for sure now that you mention it. I guess I just assumed it was affected by global recharge because it's up far more often than I need it. It sure doesn't feel like 5-6 minutes (whatever the base cooldown is).
It wouldn't shock me if the devs made alignment powers immune to recharge. That seems to be en vogue, these days. Then again, there are a lot of Accolade/Booster/Temp powers that are affected by global recharge, so there's no conclusive precedent. When I next get a chance to log into the game, I'll see if I can time it. |
Edit: just timed it on my Stalker who has 110% global recharge, so 180% with Hasten. Frenzy still took 6 minutes to recharge. Shame, that.
Back on topic, that damn Vengeance has thrown a spanner into the works. I really like the idea of it since its such a great power. I'm playing with the build you put together now, so far only thing I've changed is to take the HO from Hot Feet to put an Apoc Dam in Char. That bumps the damage up from 63.9 to 94.7, not bad. The all round hold stats aren't as good as with the Unbreakables in, but my global acc/recharge and Domination should make it moot. Having 5 Unbreakables and the Apoc Dam in Char would be perfect-world slotting, but I don't see a way to rejig the slotting to get that without losing recharge.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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It's enough recharge, one of my Dom's had 122.5% which was JUST enough.|
Originally Posted by Silas
One thing I'm not sure about is whether 123% recharge is enough for permadom without Hasten. I'm pretty sure 125% is the threshold. With 123%, Dom is recharging in 89.39s, the activation time on Domination is 1.32s so that's a total 90.71s cycle time.
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As far as the build goes, I tried messing around with it, but didn't see anything to really improve on given what you wanted to do with it.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Well there you go |
Originally Posted by Silas
Well, I just did the super-scientific test on my Stalker of hitting Frenzy, waiting a second, then hitting Hasten to see if Frenzy got any bigger. It didn't. I'm pretty sure the alignment powers aren't affected by recharge. Demonic is though, so that's okay
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| Back on topic, that damn Vengeance has thrown a spanner into the works. I really like the idea of it since its such a great power. I'm playing with the build you put together now, so far only thing I've changed is to take the HO from Hot Feet to put an Apoc Dam in Char. That bumps the damage up from 63.9 to 94.7, not bad. The all round hold stats aren't as good as with the Unbreakables in, but my global acc/recharge and Domination should make it moot. Having 5 Unbreakables and the Apoc Dam in Char would be perfect-world slotting, but I don't see a way to rejig the slotting to get that without losing recharge. |
), so that leaves Fireball and Blaze. Among the available options, Char seemed like the best bet.If you can only add one slot to Char, though, it's worth noting that the purple Hold proc should add slightly more over-time damage than the straight Damage enhancement from Apocalypse. Might be a little cheaper.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Philly pride. |
Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
I generally am of the opinion that builds aren't rocket science, but ... wow. These are awesome. I've been looking into respec'ing into /Fire for the Incarnate trials - /Mace is nice, but just doesn't offer enough to teams, IMO. Love the Tarantula, but the little guy's useless on teams, and the Imps are a borderline case.
This gave me a lot to think about, particularly the last builds from Obitus and Silas / Lifewind, which are world-class. I'm probably leaning more toward a 32.5% ranged build for playstyle issues. I just love blasting from a distance. Also avoids the end drain on Hot Feet, letting me run Musculature, which is nice for all the control powers that get underslotted for damage. |
Anyway, you're very gracious. This sort of peer review and revision seems to make all the difference. I'm sure we're all happy to have you along for the party; are there any particular goals you have in mind besides the ranged DEF? If you're willing to accept that Domination will have to be juggled with Hasten, we might even be able to get you up to the ranged soft cap.
(That would be very similar to my Mind/Fire/Fire build, though Mind has a slightly better spread of available set bonuses, so no promises until I get my grubby little hands on a Mids' equipped computer tonight.)
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Build goals? Hmmmmmm. |
Originally Posted by Obitus
Philly pride.
Anyway, you're very gracious. This sort of peer review and revision seems to make all the difference. I'm sure we're all happy to have you along for the party; are there any particular goals you have in mind besides the ranged DEF? If you're willing to accept that Domination will have to be juggled with Hasten, we might even be able to get you up to the ranged soft cap. (That would be very similar to my Mind/Fire/Fire build, though Mind has a slightly better spread of available set bonuses, so no promises until I get my grubby little hands on a Mids' equipped computer tonight.) |
- 32.5% Ranged Def or higher
- 100%+ Global Recharge; 170%+ with Hasten running
- 75%+ Global Accuracy (basically enough to hit +4s with the Kismet unique - don't want to take / run Tactics)
- Acceptable recovery (I'll leave that nebulous ... generally other people have higher standards here than me)
- Would like to keep Bonfire and Imps in the build if possible if only for purely sentimental reasons (sniff, love those little guys)
I have a prelim build worked out in Excel, will plug it into Mids tonight, see how it looks.
Also, going to the game on Saturday night.
I have 3,62 recovery and between domination and cardiac i dont need consume and can run blaze/incin/fb with hot feet running and be fine.
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3.62 is nice but have you also taken into account the end drain that will occur when you have all toggles running, blaze/incin/fb and continusouly spamming AOE attacks as soon as they are up? If so, then thats great, and I am sure the others would like to have a look see :-)
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Originally Posted by MengoMengo
I have 3,62 recovery and between domination and cardiac i dont need consume and can run blaze/incin/fb with hot feet running and be fine.
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Current thinking on the ranged build. I sampled liberally from at least seven of the builds in this thread then sprinkled a bit of my playstyle into it.
Any and all feedback appreciated.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Rad Avenger: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Char -- UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(3), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(3), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(9), UbrkCons-Dam%(23), Apoc-Dmg(40)
Level 1: Flares -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(5), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(5), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(11), GravAnch-Hold%(27), Ragnrk-Dmg(31)
Level 4: Fire Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(11), Posi-Dam%(27)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(9), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 8: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 10: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Amaze-Stun/Rchg(A), Amaze-Stun(13), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(13), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(17), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(29)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 16: Embrace of Fire -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 18: Cinders -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(19), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(21)
Level 20: Kick -- ExStrk-Acc/KB(A), ExStrk-Dmg/KB(36), ExStrk-Dam%(37)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(23), HO:Ribo(50)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(25), HO:Enzym(25)
Level 26: Bonfire -- ExStrk-Dmg/KB(A), ExStrk-Acc/KB(37), ExStrk-Dam%(37)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(31), HO:Enzym(31)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(34)
Level 35: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Blaze -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apoc-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Rain of Fire -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Ragnrk-Knock%(43)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dam%(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Fire Shield -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(48), HO:Ribo(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-Travel(50)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Born In Battle
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(46), Panac-Heal/+End(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(43), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(43), P'Shift-End%(46)
Code:
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Just a note, my slotting of Hot Feet had a bug, I wasn't using the Damage/Endurance enhancement from Armaggedon. I've updated the build. It saves .09 endurance per second vs the old version for a total endurance gain of 2.54 e/s (only considering toggles).