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Real Numbers probably hasn't caught up with the new definition of Burn yet, which is a little bit funky. Burn does 1.44 scale damage up front from the scrapper and then casts a pseudo pet that deals scale 0.06 damage every 0.8 seconds for 10 seconds - 13 total ticks.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This power is... Ugh! I don't know if it's bugged, if its numbers are wrong or what, but something here ain't right. Allow me to list the problems I've noticed with it.
Real numbers: Burn is listed as dealing 13 ticks of 3.34 damage in the in-game real numbers. The problem with that is that City of Heroes lists the "Flames" pet's offensive aura as ticking every 0.2 seconds, and persisting for 10 seconds, which gives the power more like 50 ticks, if one stays in it from beginning to end, which is achievable. I've observed the power and can confirm that it lasts "about 10 seconds" and that it ticks "VERY fast," a lot faster than the roughly once per second that real numbers would suggest it ticks. Accuracy: Is this or is this not slottable for? Yes, Burn does indeed accept Accuracy enhancements... But they don't seem to do anything. I watched my to-hit tab list miss after miss from "Flames" and each to-hit roll happened at the default 75% to-hit that a power unenhanced for accuracy would attack at. Why? Wasn't Burn SPECIFICALLY changed to accept accuracy enhancements? What happened? Thirdly, wasn't this power altered to have a larger damage burst upfront and lower tick speed? What happened to that? I don't see it listed anywhere. Can anyone help me make sense of this thing? |
That is 90.09 damage up front and 13 ticks of 3.34 damage.
Not sure about accuracy, will have to check on that. The burn pet might be bugged to not accept accuracy buffs from the caster.
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I see. Thank you. So the City of Data is also outdated, just like real numbers. It's getting to the point where I don't trust even the correct real numbers values...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Real Numbers probably hasn't caught up with the new definition of Burn yet, which is a little bit funky. Burn does 1.44 scale damage up front from the scrapper and then casts a pseudo pet that deals scale 0.06 damage every 0.8 seconds for 10 seconds - 13 total ticks.
That is 90.09 damage up front and 13 ticks of 3.34 damage. |
So that's one large tick of damage with my damage mods and another 13 ticks with the pet damage mods. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.
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| Not sure about accuracy, will have to check on that. The burn pet might be bugged to not accept accuracy buffs from the caster. |
The 75% to-hit was real, and exact - 75.00%. However, next battle after that I was seeing a perfect 95% to-hit hit, which means it does indeed take accuracy into consideration... Sometimes. But then I spotted something else weird - the initial burst of damage from the power is reporting as auto-hit. Literally. "The Burn power was autohit." That can't be right, I'm sure of it, but that's the combat spam I got.
I'll keep tracking that when I get the chance to see if I can't spot anything else weird.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's the funky part I mentioned earlier. If the power wasn't autohit, if the very first burst of damage failed to hit anything, the pseudo-pet wouldn't spawn. - the power didn't affect anything. So Burn is coded to autohit (both you and its targets), to guarantee the pseudopet forms. However, the actual damage from the power has a special check built into it that in effect rolls a tohit roll separately to see if it hits each of its targets (and to make sure it doesn't actually damage you - it was at one time bugged to hit yourself). That extra bit of gyration is something Real Numbers isn't coded to understand so it probably drops out saying anything about the initial damage, and only shows the pet damage.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I specifically paid attention to my to-hit channel, and I've been seeing... Weird things with it.
The 75% to-hit was real, and exact - 75.00%. However, next battle after that I was seeing a perfect 95% to-hit hit, which means it does indeed take accuracy into consideration... Sometimes. But then I spotted something else weird - the initial burst of damage from the power is reporting as auto-hit. Literally. "The Burn power was autohit." That can't be right, I'm sure of it, but that's the combat spam I got. I'll keep tracking that when I get the chance to see if I can't spot anything else weird. |
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Sheesh, that is too bad that the numbers are still off. I'd hate for people to get the wrong impression of how the power works.
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Not auto hit 99.9% sure. Was on a manti tf the other day with my fire/fire scrapper with lots of paragon protectors and they were using mog liberally and it wasn't hitting them I tried lots, no ticks of 1,1,1,1 etc.
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If I understand what Arcanaville said above, Burn auto-hits in order to generate the pseudo-pet, but then rolls a second set of hit checks after the auto-hit and the damage itself is dependent on those hit checks. So it's not auto-hit per se (except for a game mechanic that's hidden from players), and still does need to roll to damage targets. That sounds consistent with your experience.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Not auto hit 99.9% sure. Was on a manti tf the other day with my fire/fire scrapper with lots of paragon protectors and they were using mog liberally and it wasn't hitting them I tried lots, no ticks of 1,1,1,1 etc.
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agreed
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
If I understand what Arcanaville said above, Burn auto-hits in order to generate the pseudo-pet, but then rolls a second set of hit checks after the auto-hit and the damage itself is dependent on those hit checks. So it's not auto-hit per se (except for a game mechanic that's hidden from players), and still does need to roll to damage targets. That sounds consistent with your experience.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I see. Thank you. So the City of Data is also outdated, just like real numbers. It's getting to the point where I don't trust even the correct real numbers values...
So that's one large tick of damage with my damage mods and another 13 ticks with the pet damage mods. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. |
City of Data hasn't been updated in about 6 months, none of the GR changes are in there at all.
Arcana, for some reason I thought the initial big hit from the new Burn required a to-hit check, but the dot afterwards did not. I guess I'm wrong in that? I could have sworn I read that somewhere, though. 
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I see. That could hint at what I'm seeing. If the initial burst damage operates as a proc on the power itself, then I could see it possibly skipping enhancements. In fact, are we sure that proc percentages can even be slotted for? I honestly don't know one way or the other.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's the funky part I mentioned earlier. If the power wasn't autohit, if the very first burst of damage failed to hit anything, the pseudo-pet wouldn't spawn. - the power didn't affect anything. So Burn is coded to autohit (both you and its targets), to guarantee the pseudopet forms. However, the actual damage from the power has a special check built into it that in effect rolls a tohit roll separately to see if it hits each of its targets (and to make sure it doesn't actually damage you - it was at one time bugged to hit yourself). That extra bit of gyration is something Real Numbers isn't coded to understand so it probably drops out saying anything about the initial damage, and only shows the pet damage.
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I am curious, however - why does the Flames pet require that Burn hit me AND my enemies? Why can't it auto-hit just me with the immobilization protection and draw an "everyone but me" AoE for the damage? Pure curiosity here.
The pet does indeed seem to be accepting enhancements, though. Not sure what those numbers I saw before were about. Still keeping an eye on that.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
City of Data hasn't been updated in about 6 months, none of the GR changes are in there at all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Something isn't right here. Burn keeps fluctuating between respecting and disrespecting my enhancements. Here's Burn slotted with a white Accuracy SO against an even-level Rikti Infantry:
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Why are my flames attacking at 75.00% chance to hit? They're slotted with 33.3% accuracy. Against even level foes, I should be seeing 95%+ final to-hit, and against +1 enemies I should be seeing ~86.65% final to-hit. I should not be seeing 75.00% flat on the nose as though I haven't slotted the power.| Flames: MISSED Infantry!! Your Burn power had a 75.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 81.74. |
And this is not once or twice. EVERY damage tick the power rolled against EVERY opponent I rolled against was 75.00% to-hit.
And here's something else interesting - with Build Up, Burn Flames do seem to have SOME kind of to-hit increase, but... Well, here's some combat spam from the SAME Flames:
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Flames: MISSED Guardian!! Your Burn power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 95.75. Flames: MISSED Conscript!! Your Burn power had a 79.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 90.90. |
What's going on?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Good question. I'll have to take a look more carefully. I have a couple of things with Burn I can test with. Unfortunately, it might not be until tomorrow or Friday when I get the chance to test, as I'll be traveling and I'm also trying to get some Lambda and BAF time in there to unlock some slots and someone has asked me to do a write up on some game mechanics for them. I'll try to squeeze in some quality testing time this week though.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What's going on?
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Oh, thank you, then! |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Good question. I'll have to take a look more carefully. I have a couple of things with Burn I can test with. Unfortunately, it might not be until tomorrow or Friday when I get the chance to test, as I'll be traveling and I'm also trying to get some Lambda and BAF time in there to unlock some slots and someone has asked me to do a write up on some game mechanics for them. I'll try to squeeze in some quality testing time this week though.
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I didn't think you'd actually go and test this out, so I have no problem with Thursday, Friday, some time next week or some time this month or whenever. I didn't really think I'd get much of an answer when I brought up the question to begin with, so I'd be happy if I even just know what the power is doing.Personally, I hope the to-hit spam is either wrong or misleading, because if it's correct and the power's accuracy really is crap, then that means we'll have to make a case for it, and then wait until it's picked up officially, and then wait until it's patched into the game, and that could... Take a while, put it like that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This power is... Ugh! I don't know if it's bugged, if its numbers are wrong or what, but something here ain't right. Allow me to list the problems I've noticed with it.
Real numbers: Burn is listed as dealing 13 ticks of 3.34 damage in the in-game real numbers. The problem with that is that City of Heroes lists the "Flames" pet's offensive aura as ticking every 0.2 seconds, and persisting for 10 seconds, which gives the power more like 50 ticks, if one stays in it from beginning to end, which is achievable. I've observed the power and can confirm that it lasts "about 10 seconds" and that it ticks "VERY fast," a lot faster than the roughly once per second that real numbers would suggest it ticks.
Accuracy: Is this or is this not slottable for? Yes, Burn does indeed accept Accuracy enhancements... But they don't seem to do anything. I watched my to-hit tab list miss after miss from "Flames" and each to-hit roll happened at the default 75% to-hit that a power unenhanced for accuracy would attack at. Why? Wasn't Burn SPECIFICALLY changed to accept accuracy enhancements? What happened?
Thirdly, wasn't this power altered to have a larger damage burst upfront and lower tick speed? What happened to that? I don't see it listed anywhere.
Can anyone help me make sense of this thing?