Regeneration and Recovery Changes

I've searched several times for threads for official statements from the devs about issues I'm seeing with endurance recovery after re-choosing powers in i19 (and it seems like the “issues” may have started in i18). I just can't find descriptions of it; maybe I’m a bad forum searcher. Perhaps people can help me. I just want to understand the logic, vent a little, and put in my two cents about the game play aspect.

So, now I know that if I "respec" on a toon under i19 that my base endurance recovery is lowered, and as well as my base regeneration rate. I've been finding people that haven't respec'd during i19 have higher numbers.

As one example, I have an (Invulnerable)/(Super Strength) tank that I love to play. A fellow player has the same AT. Here are the numbers:

No i19 respec toon:
Regeneration Base: 0.79%/sec (14.81 hp/sec)
Recovery Base: 0.52%/sec (2.64 end/sec)

My i19 respec toon:
Regeneration Base: 0.42% (10.34 hp/s)
Recovery Base: 1.67%/sec (1.83 end/sec)

What was done with recovery seems tricky b/c the older toon has a lower percentage base, but a much higher "end/sec" number.

Once the Fitness Pool became inherent I initially thought it was a good idea because I used the Fitness Pool on all my toons anyway to manage endurance recovery. And I used health as well, especially to slot the +recovery "proc"ess enhancements: i.e. Numina and Miracle. So I "maxed-out" stamina (with 3 regular end. mod. IO's) and with health I would slot (Numina +Recovery/+Regen)(Numina Health)(Health IO). If needed more endurance recovery, I’d slot (Miracle +Recovery)(Miracle)(Numina +Recovery)(Numina Health). I’d open up the slots early so they’d be available for exemplaring situations. I also made sure each power had an endurance reduction amount appropriate to that used by the power. (i.e. Foot Stomp would get more end. red. than Laser Beam Eyes, etc.). I even gave preference to IO sets that supplied a endurance recovery bonus.

In the case of my tank, she has a slow attack rate but under a heavy fighting load I have noticed the endurance levels moving around quite a bit where before they were solid. On other toons, under a heavy fighting load endurance will bounce around terribly and toggles will drop completely at times, where pre-i19 (under the same end. red. and stamina slotting scheme) everything was fine!

Some people have said, well just use Incarnate powers and those issues will go away. That may be true but I think that is (way) beside the point. Why would the developers pretend to "give us" something (the Incarnate System), but in a stealth way actually take it away (in the case of endurance recovery). Why should I have to rely on something I may not want to level up in right away (the Incarnate System) to get back part of what I had? Is this a way to make toons weaker so that the Incarnate System seems like a better idea and therefore promote more buy-in? Also, a gripe I have is that I've had to go through two “respecs” on many characters to "tune them" to the new endurance/recovery reality to make quality of life good again. I paid a lot of attention to it before; my work was thrown up in the air, now I'm picking up the pieces. My thinking is that it’s beneficial to build the strongest toon w/o Incarnate abilities in mind and then chose an Incarnate path that best suits play style and/or goals.

I just want to understand what’s going on. I guess it's just "their game" and they can tweak whatever they want, eh? There's always the power of "unsubscribing" (Bleh!) Okay rant ended.

But seriously, I would like to know the reasoning behind this and why the information isn’t more readily available. I think the supplying reasoning and information would help people experiencing the same issues (I've talked to many people) buy into whatever is going on with less frustration and help them re-tune their characters so they can get back to enjoying the game.

Some people say "I have no endurance problems". Some people may not, but quite a few do when such issues weren't around before. I don't think it's across the board, but I think it's a "stealth" change in that I can't seem to find more concrete information about it. I say a stealth change because, for example, my Dark Zombie Mastermind had atrocious endurance/recovery issues despite my best efforts. And now with a respec to switch a couple powers unrelated to anything endurance or stamina related, she plays a bit more smoothly, but that’s just one AT.

The endurance and recovery changes seem to be all over the place (to me) and as Peter Griffin would say "That grinds my gears"... well a little bit. Help me understand what was done!

I haven't noticed any change in actual recovery rates between preI19 and now. However what I have noticed is that my endurance usage is increasing. On several of my characters I used the I19 inherent fitness chance to add several high cost toggles to my build (Fighting and/or Leadership). So while my endurance recovery remained the same my usage went up and my net recovery decreased. In several cases I used the Cardiac Alpha to counter this as doing so had the least impact on my overall build.

I suspect that this is what is happening for a lot of people. Your recovery hasn't changed but the removal of the fitness pool means that characters are using more endurance since you are (for the most part) replacing three passive powers with three click/toggle powers.

As for the difference in recovery numbers you're quoting I'm going to have to say "pics or it didn't happen". Those numbers frankly do not make a whole lot of sense so either there's some sort of display bug or you're mis-reading something.

As it happens, I still have a couple of toons with pre-i19 Stamina, so let's have a look:

SS/WP Brute:



Nin/Nin Stalker:



And a regular post-i19 compliant toon (a different Brute), for comparison:



All 3 of them have the same base values for regen and recovery.

Well, the same percentile values. End/sec and hp/sec are different due do different HP and End totals, naturally.

The general rule when you find something extraordinary, that makes no sense, that immediately frustrates you, that seems new, and that no one else has described, mentioned, or experienced is this: it might not be happening. Double- and triple-check it and then, in my opinion, it's still smarter to ask about it on the forums than assert it as fact.

Perception is a tricky thing, after a respec a single power that is slotted for slightly less endredux can hugely impact the perceived end recovery for a player. That is why the real numbers feature was added.

I don't think that Sailboat was being snarky but the forums see a _lot_ of people who believe that "stat X" has changed between issues and almost without fail they are accompanied with the claim that "many others outside the forum are having the same problem" hence why the default reaction is to ask for screenshots of real numbers and suggest that the poster re-checks.

With some more concrete information we can probably help find out what's going on and even make a detailed bug report if one is warranted.

I always keep a close eye when building and as I level on End Gain and Consumption and I can't say I've seen any issues.

However - if you have Numina or Miracle slotted, sometimes you will after zoning have a double effect from them. Is it possible you recorded those double values before you respecced and that's the loss you're seeing?

If you're looking for more data, here it is:

Fire/fire tanker which I literally have not touched since the original burn nerf (around i3 or something, it's been awhile. His build has provoke and no APP): Base recovery, 1.67%

BS/Shield scrapper I started after issue 19: Base recovery, 1.67%

Here's a quick thought: there are reports that the Alpha Incarnate abilities are not functioning, but ONLY on the new Incarnate task forces. (Believed to be a bug that will be fixed.) If you used the one that grants end reduction or the one that affects end modification, it will crap out during the new TFs -- could that be what happened?

The problem is that without knowing the powers, slotting, set bonuses, accolades, temp powers and buffs on both characters in your comparison, we can't make any reasonable conclusions.

For example, your toon appears to have 110 max end, whereas your comparison toon seems to have 508 max end. Something is very wrong with those numbers.

You have 2462 max HP, whereas your comparison toon has 1875 max HP, which suggests either different levels (or exemp/sk) or that you're running Dull Pain or a similar HP boost and he isn't.

Without a true like-for-like, you can't really draw any conclusions.