Sick of sleep and holds


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar View Post
Opening with an AOE immob is the same as casting a taunt for up to the aggro cap (17 enemies) that says "kill me now!" Compared with a Tanks's taunt which says "come to me!" and only hits 5 enemies.
I know. I know...I just see it so much. Activate Personal Forcefield, and watch safely as others (Elec Doms! Im looking right at you!!!) get eaten for breakfast. If you are going to open with anything open with a group hold and then the imob.

Oh..and Rad players or Storm who think it's wise to "pull" using an anchor = one dead troller!


 

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With the Gravity set, you have Singularity helping you stack mezzes.

One thing which I've discovered recently, putting the Gravitational Anchor +Chance for Hold purple IO in my AOE immob. It's frickin' great.


Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar View Post
Which brings up another point, find an Emp who understands what you need and is willing to do it for you and the rest of the team.
As someone who used to play Empaths a lot, the idea that you can keep Clear Mind on an entire team is too tedious to even contemplate. The duration of Clear Mind is only 90 seconds. As such it's only useful as a remedy than a preventive measure. It costs 5 end, and takes 3 seconds or so to cast and recharge. No one can spend a quarter of their time and energy doing that. At times I have endeavored to keep one other person buffed with Clear Mind at all times, and that person was always another empath -- someone who would heal or buff me as needed.

Which is kind of the point: I don't see the OP offering to keep the rest of the team buffed with Increase Density (which gives damage resistance and protection against immobilize, knockback, hold and stun, the latter of which is probably more common than sleeps in melee situations). He's just interested in being able to waltz in, kill everything without any effort and move on to the next spawn. I wonder if the OP even has Increase Density in his build, unless it's a mule for Steadfast Protection: Res/+Def. I've seen a fair number of /Kins who don't even have Speed Boost.

Anyway, the OP's real underlying complaint is that he can't solo +4/x8 because he keeps getting mezzed. An empath won't help in that case.

On a practical note: I have a Mind/Kin with Indomitable Will down to a 92 second recharge (down for 2 seconds). The worst thing is remembering to use it. I get mezzed so infrequently that it's not the first thing on my mind, and I always forget about activating it until I'm mezzed. And then it's useless. If it were made so you could activate when mezzed it would be great.

I have a similar problem with my perma-dom, but I only forget to hit that when I'm distracted -- typically when out of combat. But the villain Frenzy power is just fabulous for instant-on Domination.


 

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Originally Posted by OutaControl View Post
The game has gravitated away from squishy characters, the AE farms want tanks and tough scrappers and don't even bother bringing a healer.
Since when are AE farms "The game"?

AE farms are an aberration that was never intended to exist in the game, it is not even CLOSE to being "the game".

Play your Controller like a Controller and not like a mobile damage aura and maybe you'll have better luck.

It falls to you to adapt to how the game changes over the years. Expecting the game to adapt to your preferred way of playing is (for lack of a better description) bat guano stupid.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Originally Posted by OutaControl View Post
Mezz first... it sounds so simple, Why couldn't I have thought of that myself?

Maybe it's because my Mezz doesn't work like it used to. If I fight a more classic opponents, say from the portals in PI my Mezz seems to work like it's supposed to. Flashfire gets 95% of them and you can char the rest.

But compare that to LGTF or ITF opponents. now my mezz doesn't work worth **** . Flashfire at best hits 3/4 of them or less. Char and cindars NEVER Hold bosses unless I'm extremely lucky or I've put like 6 applications of char on them ( assuming I don't die before then). Now move on up to APEX and MAGE opponents... all bets are off.

I do run +4/8 AE farms but I've used a highly selective opponents that can't sleep or hold anything.

I've noticed a few fire/kins using tough & weave and earth mastery... I've never tried such a build. how does that type of setup fair for sleep/holds?
On a LGTF or ITF . . . you are on a team. Let your teammates do their jobs -- let the tank go in first to draw the aggro. Use your pets. Use your teammates. And use your secondary. Sometimes you can provide more benefit to the team buffing and debuffing than being in the front line doing damage.

Those TFs were designed to provide certain challenges. The ITF foes have mez protection, but Slow powers are very effective. The Rikti have lots of mez. Part of the challenge is that you have to adjust your tactics to the situation. (Those TFs are already easy enough.) What you are asking for is to be able to mez foes all the time while preventing them from mezzing you. That would make it all too easy.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar View Post
With the Gravity set, you have Singularity helping you stack mezzes.

One thing which I've discovered recently, putting the Gravitational Anchor +Chance for Hold purple IO in my AOE immob. It's frickin' great.
I was going for something cheaper for him to test, but Grav Anchor is the better choice, but if you are on a budget, Trap of the Hunter will do similar.

Yeah, Singy does stack mezzy goodness, however I keep forgetting to cast him. Silly me! But yeah I see your point there.


 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Since when are AE farms "The game"?

AE farms are an aberration that was never intended to exist in the game, it is not even CLOSE to being "the game".

Play your Controller like a Controller and not like a mobile damage aura and maybe you'll have better luck.

It falls to you to adapt to how the game changes over the years. Expecting the game to adapt to your preferred way of playing is (for lack of a better description) bat guano stupid.
I don't think that was his point. I think his point was that sometimes holds don't land, and controllers can get mezzed pretty easy if not prepared, as can defenders, and all squishy types.

Telling him that he has to adapt is all well and good, and I mean no offense to you in the least, but your not providing options for adaptability other than mezz the mezzer or change your game play does not really remedy the fact that he is A) being mezzed, or B) providing a solution to avoid it.

Sure he mentioned farming which is not a great aspect of the game, but it's frequent enough occurence that it should go with a mention, that AE or Portal farms are popular in some cases.

We should be looking at prevention, and while all toons have to adapt, just mentioning adapting without giving options or ideas, really wont "PREVENT" this type of thread from starting up again.


 

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Originally Posted by OutaControl View Post
I guess my complaint is that CoH is over compensating. Like all game progressions, just make things not work and call it new and inventive content.

a spine/regen scrapper used to be all the rage, I hate mine now.
a fire/kin controller was all the rage but Mine sleeps though half the content now.
an Empathy healer could write his own ticket, it was my first level 50, I can hardly find work for mine, only STF seems to even want one. with instant death one-shotting bosses why bother with a good healer since no healer can save you from the one shot death

The game has gravitated away from squishy characters, the AE farms want tanks and tough scrappers and don't even bother bringing a healer.

Squishy teams can still work, an all rad team still rocks but I find playing a katana/willpower scrapper much more fun since I can almost tank with him and he never sleeps on the job. I like playing the scrapper more than tanking because as a tank, if I can't hold aggro I feel like I'm letting people down and the tank aggro limit is VERY easy to reach in ITF or LGTF.
Maybe you just plain prefer to play scrappers. One of my regular buddies has twenty-something level 50 characters, and only one is a controller -- and that one was kind of PL'ed up to make a full team of Fire/Rads. He just doesn't like controllers -- they don't fit the way he likes to play. He loves scrappers and has a ton of them.

For me, nearly half of my twenty-something level 50 characters are controllers -- I love 'em.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

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Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
As someone who used to play Empaths a lot, the idea that you can keep Clear Mind on an entire team is too tedious to even contemplate. The duration of Clear Mind is only 90 seconds. As such it's only useful as a remedy than a preventive measure. It costs 5 end, and takes 3 seconds or so to cast and recharge. No one can spend a quarter of their time and energy doing that. At times I have endeavored to keep one other person buffed with Clear Mind at all times, and that person was always another empath -- someone who would heal or buff me as needed.
I recast Clear Mind after every 2 spawn group or there-abouts. I've developed a bit of an internal clock that causes me to wonder if too much time has gone by between castings. Ditto for Speed Boost and Increased Density on my Kin. I also maintain Fortitude on 4 people. All while blasting during my waits for CM to recharge, of course.

I spent about a year at the Hollows training before I could do this. This was when the Hollows was still relatively new and populated. I was covering every lowbie in the entire 3 block radius semi-circle around the Atlas Gate, and sometimes beyond. I also spent 3 respecs (pre-IO era) to ensure that I could reliable solo my own missions on dinky Defender damage, which at that point were the 40+ and full of mezzers.


Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

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So your complaint is that... what?

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Char and cindars NEVER Hold bosses
(and never did.)
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a spine/regen scrapper used to be all the rage, I hate mine now.
a fire/kin controller was all the rage but Mine sleeps though half the content now.
an Empathy healer could write his own ticket, it was my first level 50, I can hardly find work for mine, only STF seems to even want one. with instant death one-shotting bosses why bother with a good healer since no healer can save you from the one shot death
... smells like troll?


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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It's funny that this did not go furthat than it should have. Not because it is spectacular as a topic, but because I found the information valuable.

I always run dispursion bubble. Sleeps hit me...when they get off, and a simple sleep is very Kryptonite to me.

Knowing how to defend your controller or defender during those moments seems...well...important to share.

Unless of course you are one of those people who thinks they dont need those types and then rage when the "Healer" or buffer can't do anything to help them.

Either way. To pose the question that the OP had. How can support best serve a team, during TF's or even reg missions?

Seriously...preople who are new to an AT will benifit from this. Blasters, Defenders, Corrs, Doms and Controllers all face this issue.

Most suggestions have been good, but surely there are other techniques that would offer more protection or even offer more stability to these toons.

Id write a guide...but it would be my oppinion, and I feel that if I spend the time doing it, that the feedback of players would help me make a beginners guide to control defense...and defenders...As I sort of feel they suffer from the same lot in life.


 

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Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
I also suggest slotting something like (Trap of the Hunter +2 Mag hold) on your single target and Group Imob. These will help increase your holding power, again even if brief. They are not that expensive.

If you have range attacks from the epic pool, then slot (Devastation or it could be Decimation ((I always get them mixed up)) which is another chance for a hold. I have it on my Fire Blast, and my propel and my lift, and it triggers enough because these are fast attacks. Plus Purple lightning bubble is always ammusing.

This works for me, and while you might not have as many range attacks, placing these holds do help build mags, or appear too, unless Gravity somehow has a higher holding potential than anything else.
That's Devastation with the Chance to Hold proc. On all my squishies, I try to make sure they get them in their single target ranged attacks (except my AR/Traps Corruptor. I needed those slots in Burst and Slug for other things). I also include the single target immobilizes in that rule, since they can take ranged damage (if I can spare the slot). It's just so satisfying seeing all those tesla cages pop up on your enemies when you least expect it.

Also, if you are playing a Tech origin character, don't overlook your origin attack power. Although it is a short duration, that Taser Dart's hold still stacks nicely with other holds.


 

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Originally Posted by Willowpaw View Post
It's just so satisfying seeing all those tesla cages pop up on your enemies when you least expect it.
Yes...yes it is. Definately...quite enoyable!

Plus it makes the elec toons feel less special. Muhahahahaha.

Also. When tossing a Urinal (Through propel of course) it funny watching a tesla cage appear.

"I have struck at thee with my magic electric urin collection device"!

It's pure win!

:Edit

Elec Soiled Matress, and Couch also are amusing. Fork lifts...well...thats also WIN!


 

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After several kins I gave up on playing any squishy whose power set requires them to enter melee. You're just setting yourself up for frustration.

You should try a dom if you want to control without to wait on someone else to start every pull... or illusion if you're really married to the idea of playing a controller.