Help this Thugs/Poison survive on teams and keep Bile Spray

I love playing my Thugs/Poison mastermind... solo. He's a lot of fun, I have lots to do, and his concept is fun for me. With all the new incarnate content, I'm finding that I want to team him in order to get shards and components on the WST. The problem is that he dies all the time on teams. I know some of it is pet management problems on my end. I tend to leave pets in bodyguard when I solo, but have to put them on the attack on teams, so I become the squishiest thing in the world. I'm working on that issue separately. I know /Poison will never be the ideal teaming MM with its single target focus, but I'd like to enjoy him on teams more.

In the meantime, I'd like to work on his build so I'm not dying all the time. I've not spent a lot of money on him, though I do have all four of the pet defense/resistance bonus enhancements. My pets are at 40.66% defense to all, and pretty sturdy, though more defense would always be welcome. I have this guy built so he can be upgraded for recharge, thinking that more uptime on Noxious Gas would be useful. He has the Cardiac boost because of the nightmare of end usage on /Poison. I've left an open slot in Health to place a Numina or Miracle unique, though if I stick with Cardiac I won't need it. I'd really like to keep Leviathan Mastery for Bile Spray for conceptual reasons. I'd like to have all the Poison powers except Poison Trap and maybe Antidote.

So here are my questions:

1) How can I make him more survivable? My pets do okay on teams, I'm the one dying all the time. Since I want to keep Leviathan Mastery, should I be going for Ranged and AoE Defense?

2) Should I go a route different than Cardiac for his alpha? Musculature provides a nice set of debuff enhancement, Nerve gives the defense bonus which might make my pets and me more sturdy.

Help with this build would be greatly appreciated. Here's my current build (data chunk at the end):

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Doctor Protean current: Level 50 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs

• (A) Accuracy IO: Level 35
• (3) Accuracy IO: Level 30
• (3) Damage Increase IO: Level 30
• (5) Damage Increase IO: Level 30
• (5) Damage Increase IO: Level 30
• (7) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus: Level 30

• (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 37
• (7) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
• (9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 37
• (9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 37
• (11) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 37

• (A) Accuracy IO: Level 25
• (11) Accuracy IO: Level 30
• (17) Defense Debuff IO: Level 35
• (23) Defense Debuff IO: Level 35
• (25) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
• (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

• (A) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff: Level 30
• (31) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff: Level 30
• (31) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
• (33) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
• (33) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
• (33) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 25

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 45

• (A) Defense Buff IO: Level 35
• (46) Defense Buff
• (48) Defense Buff
• (48) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 45

• (A) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Slow: Level 38
• (34) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 38
• (34) Tempered Readiness - Range/Slow: Level 38
• (34) Tempered Readiness - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 39
• (36) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Damage/Slow: Level 38
• (36) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 35

• (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
• (13) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
• (13) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
• (15) Defense Buff
• (15) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
• (17) Defense Buff IO: Level 50

• (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt: Level 27
• (39) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge: Level 28
• (39) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range: Level 27
• (40) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 27

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 30

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 38
• (19) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage: Level 38
• (19) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 38
• (21) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets: Level 38
• (21) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets: Level 30
• (23) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus: Level 32

• (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff: Level 32
• (48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 32
• (50) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 32
• (50) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge: Level 32
• (50) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 32

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 30

• (A) Endurance Reduction

• (A) Accuracy IO: Level 30
• (27) Accuracy IO: Level 30
• (27) Damage Increase IO: Level 35
• (29) Damage Increase IO: Level 30
• (29) Damage Increase IO: Level 30
• (31) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage: Level 39

• (A) Accuracy IO: Level 25
• (36) Accuracy IO: Level 25
• (37) Hold Duration IO: Level 30
• (37) Hold Duration IO: Level 35
• (37) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 25
• (39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 35

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 45

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 45

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 35
• (40) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40

• (A) Accuracy IO: Level 25
• (42) Accuracy IO: Level 25
• (42) Damage Increase IO: Level 30
• (42) Air Burst - Damage/Endurance: Level 47
• (43) Detonation - Damage/Endurance: Level 44

• (A) Resist Damage IO: Level 45
• (45) Resist Damage IO: Level 45
• (45) Resist Damage IO: Level 45
• (45) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 35

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Healing IO: Level 25
• (40) Healing IO: Level 25
• (43) Healing IO: Level 30
• (43) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 30
• (46) Endurance Modification IO: Level 30
• (46) Endurance Modification IO: Level 30

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I've felt your pain, of transitioning a thugs/poison from a comfy solo world to team play with a secondary that offers little means to consistently increase your safety versus a large number of mobs.

From your first paragraph, I'd say your main problem is putting your pets on attack. At this point you're just a mezzable little pile of 800 hp (I can't view the build in Mids at the moment) that's 1-2 shots away from death, with only a hold to truly protect yourself. With Neurotoxic Breath, Bile Spray and Provoke you should be able to get someone's attention. Once the Thugs get engaged they tend to stay in for the rest of the fight, since they're so aoe heavy.

Another option is to use Attack my target + Defensive. This will get them attacking and automatically put them back in Defensive when the target is defeated. Again, hopefully their aoes will get someone's attention.

Bottom line - your survivability will increase dramatically by staying BG mode on teams.

I haven't built my thugs/ poison yet and to be honest, it may never happen, given how far down the list he is, of 50s to pay attention to for shards and IOs. So I don't have any practical build advice. I'm pretty sure I'd be focusing on def, probably ranged and aoe.

If you're succesful solo, run tip mishes and buy the Perf Shifter, Numi, and Miracle procs with alignment merits. That will help your endurance a lot.

You can try running partial bodyguard mode, i.e. put some pets on agressive and leave the rest on defensive so you still get some of the BG mode benefits.

I couldn't get your datalink to open, but I agree with anonymoose, try partial bodyguard. Since you state you die way more than the pets, start with four on bodyguard and two attacking, if that works out ok, try three and three. See how that works before you go making massive changes to a spec that seems to be working fine for you solo.

Also, it might help to find a nice supergroup or friends to play with pretty often so you aren't doing pugs. But even in pugs, I've found this game much friendlier than World of Warcraft.

Lastly, and I know this might sound silly, but dying can sometimes be a big help to your team, if one or more of them have Vengeance or Fallout from /Rad. You could maybe do a macro or keybind to shout out "Avenge me!" as you die, alerting them to use Vengeance.

I looked at your build. Sadly your issue is your lacking IOs.

As always just my opinion. You have several options here.

1. You could run AE missions when players are running AE farms. Not the ones you pay for, the ones that players are running to get tickets. Basically a bunch of guys ( gender neutral ) run the farm missions that one guy can do solo. This will allow you to buy rare salvage with AE tickets instead of INF. So you know ( Which I did not ) you can buy rare salvage with AE tickets it is NOT a random roll, like it is with lower end salvage or IO sets.

2. I would re work your build for probably Range cap.

3. Market.. You have to resist the urge to bid on things in an attempt to buy it now. You need to bid on stuff and walk away expecting to get it week or so from now. I would low ball bids on pets IOs. I would do this on alt toons you might have. Just a reminder the toon has to be over level 10 to use the mail system otherwise your gonna have to level the toon to 10 in an attempt to move stuff with the mail system. A unexpected experience that happen to me.

4. Tip missions as was mentioned. You have to do those.

5. Your in no way shape or form built for Provoke. You have nothing to back it up when you use it.

6. Looking at Poison it is hard to work stuff around with it being so single target. Some of the powers do not even accept Inventions in them.

7. This might be off the wall but I have to say it worked for me. Build a defense cap toon. It does not have to be a brute or a tank, it can be a defender. Something like Fire Traps defender. Once you have a defense cap toon you can pretty much run regular missions and AE missions solo on 1/8 settings without breaking a sweat. So you can get these tickets much faster and get more drops from missions you might be able to sell for a profit.

You pretty much are going to be forced to do a bit of everything to obtain the finances to create the build your looking to do. If your just going to do missions it will take you forever or a lucky purple drop to obtain the cash flow for these IO builds.

Here is what I worked up.

If your not into travel powers. You could at a loss of 1.25% range defense take out hasten and super speed and slot in Aid other and Aid self to supplement your heals for your pets. The stealth in Super speed does allow you to zip around though through missions. It helps on speed runs though sniper and high perception mobs will spot you. I would eat one or two purple inspirations as an example before running to the end of a LGTF mission. Personally though aid self and aid other seem nice even if for such lower slotting I would rather have the Super speed stealth combo. You can buy a jetpack and still have it activated to obtain stealth at flight speed.

Or you can remove Poison Trap and shark skin and pick up aid other and aid self. I really do not see what Poison trap is gonna do with all those pets and AOE madness.


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc(5), BldM'dt-Dmg(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal(37), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(45), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Envenom -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A)
Level 4: Weaken -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(43), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(43), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Cloud-%Dam(46)
Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(9)
Level 10: Neurotoxic Breath -- P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(11), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(11), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(23), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(23), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(25)
Level 12: Call Enforcer -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), BldM'dt-Acc(15), BldM'dt-Dmg(17)
Level 14: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(17), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(21), GSFC-Build%(21)
Level 16: Elixir of Life -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Gang War -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(39), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), BldM'dt-Acc(40), BldM'dt-Dmg(40)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(25), Clrty-Stlth(31)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Call Bruiser -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), BldM'dt-Acc(29), BldM'dt-Dmg(31)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-%Hold(31), Lock-Acc/Rchg(34), Lock-Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(33)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- LgcRps-Acc/Rchg(A), LgcRps-EndRdx/Sleep(36), LgcRps-Acc/EndRdx(36), LgcRps-Sleep/Rng(36), LgcRps-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Noxious Gas -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Bile Spray -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: School of Sharks -- TotHntr-Acc/Rchg(A), TotHntr-Dam%(45), TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob(48), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx(48), TotHntr-Immob/Acc(48), TotHntr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Shark Skin -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A)
Level 49: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50), LkGmblr-Def(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(33)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(7), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(33)

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Poison's poison trap is absolute JUNK. Take anything else, seriously, it could only be better. Take Grant Inviz even its only a LotG mule.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I do think that being out of bodyguard on teams is part of the problem I'm facing, and I have made up some macros that allow me to put some of the pets on attack while leaving the others on bodyguard.

I do think I'll work on increasing my own defenses, likely versus ranged and AoE. Given some of the restrictions I have (keeping Bile Spray, keeping the pet +defense and +resist uniques), I'll likely not be able to softcap either one, but anything more would probably be helpful.

I think you might have misunderstood, plainguy, Poison Trap was one of the powers I didn't want. I wasn't sure if you had included it as a set mule until I saw your last sentence.

I would just be the first in with Bodyguard mode on, Toxic Breath the group and work on debuffing the key hard nut of the group. This may not be good for a Brutes fury, you taking the alpha but its better in the long run for the output of the entire team and certainly Brutes can just from whacking things, taunting after and having their auras on keep fury up easy.

You could stay in the BG mode and just take provoke. That way you can keep the pets attacking and get the benefits of BG mode.

Or, as others have said, partial BG works.

I worked on a new build, just moved a few slots around and looked at the sets. I kept Leviathan Mastery and the pet +Defense and +Resist globals. I ended up with 34.5% defense to ranged, and 34.8% defense to AoE (and 30% to Fire/Cold and 26.7% to Energy/Negative!). Not fantastic, but not bad and much better than I had. I also have over 40% resistance to smashing, lethal, and cold so I'm hoping layered defenses will make a difference. My global recharge bonus is only 28.8%, but I'm not sure how to improve that without losing out elsewhere. I'd like to put in Hasten for Noxious Gas, I would have drop Combat Jumping to do it, but I dunno where I'd get additional slots for it.

Any thoughts on increasing recharge (and/or adding Hasten) without losing defense or gimping my build? Money's not really an issue (except for PVP recipes, which are probably beyond what I can manage). This guy is my villain merit farmer, he's been contributing to my other characters until now.

(I typically slot sets at less than 50 so I have more freedom in exemping down and keeping set bonuses.)

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Doctor Protean current: Level 50 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:35(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:35(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:35(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), BldM'dt-Acc:35(5), EdctM'r-PetDef:30(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:37(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:40(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:37(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:37(9), Dct'dW-Heal:37(11)
Level 2: Envenom -- ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb:30(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg:30(11), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(17), ShldBrk-DefDeb:30(23), Achilles-ResDeb%:10(25), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:50(25)
Level 4: Weaken -- Cloud-ToHitDeb:30(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb:30(31), Cloud-Acc/Rchg:30(31), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(33), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(33), Cloud-%Dam:25(33)
Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I:45(A)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(46), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(48)
Level 10: Neurotoxic Breath -- P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow:38(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow:38(34), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:38(34), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow:39(34), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow:38(36), P'ngTtl--Rchg%:35(36)
Level 12: Call Enforcer -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(13), DefBuff-I:50(15), DefBuff-I:50(15), DefBuff-I:50(17)
Level 14: Provoke -- Zinger-Taunt:27(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg:28(39), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:27(39), Zinger-Acc/Rchg:27(40)
Level 16: Elixir of Life -- RechRdx-I:30(A)
Level 18: Gang War -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg:38(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:38(19), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:38(19), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets):38(21), C'Arms-+Def(Pets):30(21), SvgnRt-PetResDam:32(23)
Level 20: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit:32(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:32(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:32(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:32(50), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:32(50), GSFC-Build%:32(50)
Level 22: Boxing -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:10(A)
Level 26: Call Bruiser -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:38(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:38(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:38(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:38(29), BldM'dt-Acc:38(29), BldM'dt-Dmg:38(31)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- Lock-Acc/Hold:35(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:35(36), Lock-Rchg/Hold:35(37), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:35(37), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:35(37), Lock-%Hold:35(39)
Level 30: Weave -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(43), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(48)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I:45(A)
Level 35: Antidote -- RechRdx-I:40(A)
Level 38: Noxious Gas -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 41: Bile Spray -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:38(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:38(42), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:38(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:38(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng:38(43)
Level 44: Shark Skin -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(45), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(45)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I:45(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Boost
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I:25(A), Heal-I:25(40), Heal-I:30(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(46), EndMod-I:30(46)

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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