Dm/Fire . Scrapper or Brute ?
By
BrandX,
Posted on: 2011-03-27 23:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Since burn's initial tick only hits five targets, I see no reason to assume that its continued damage can apply to more than five targets at once at any given instant. If you have more than five targets within its range it will certainly hit more than five of them, but not, I suspect, at the same server tick. Therefore, without some evidence to the contrary, it seems to me that the solution to the problem of the scrapper's targets running around in fear is to simply ensure that there are enough targets mad at you at any given time that burn will always have five targets within its radius, even if they may be different ones in the process of entering and exiting the patch.
In my experience with my own KM/Fire scrapper, which I created specifically because power siphon, like soul drain, is such a huge boon to scrappers, siphoned burn tends to not only kill minions before they can flee (with blazing aura) but often also lieutenants, particularly in the ever amusing combo of burn + burst. With soul drain slotted for damage I imagine you'd typically clear a spawn with just those two powers.
I don't actually know how much damage scrapper burn does exactly, as the game does not say and I don't use mids, but clearly the answer is at least "plenty!" In any case, how could saturated soul drain possibly not cause its damage to exceed a full fury burn?
Quote:
Well, that's what I was asking.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I don't actually know how much damage scrapper burn does exactly, as the game does not say and I don't use mids, but clearly the answer is at least "plenty!" In any case, how could saturated soul drain possibly not cause its damage to exceed a full fury burn?
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However, you're forgetting, the Brute would have the fully saturated Soul Drain as well.
So Scrappers fully saturated Soul Drain Burn VS a Brutes fully saturated Soul Drain Burn with added FURY LOVE!
Looking at mids, the Brute seems to put out more AOE damage with Burn and Blazing Auras, as Fury effects both those powers (and Fiery Embrace). With Scrappers putting out more ST Damage with Dark Melee.
However, Brutes could be easily on the overkill mark, while Scrappers do just enough to not overkill (or not overkill as much).
In the end, I still stand by my suggestion. DM/FA...from a pure numbers perspective...seems best for Brutes, as the ST DPS may be less than the Scrapper version, it is still more than plenty, and therefore the survival and AOE aspects seem to be good ways to go with it.
Playstyle is another. But seeing as how the OP said either or, I figured they were fine with both Scrappers and Brutes playstyles.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Well assuming nobody objects to Kyria's numbers from the previous page, saturated soul drain and full fury considered the scrapper is doing 11% more damage. This is on smite, which does not have an elevated crit rate, though even if she was factoring in a 10% rate, we can clearly see that 11% is more than 10%. At the very least, burn and blazing aura should break even for the scrapper, yes?
The effect of Fury affecting secondary effects that Scrapper criticals do not is often heavily overstated; In Fire Melee, for example, it amounts to about a 2% deviation in overall damage.
However, BrandX is right about one thing, before I do a full mathematic analysis of AoE - [i]Firey Embrace[i] is not, in Mids, affecting Scrapper Burn and is affecting Brute Burn. I don't actually have a /Fire scrapper; Does anyone know if this is a Mids bug and it actually does boost damage; an in-game bug and does not, or WAI?
Assuming you mean fiery embrace there, it does indeed boost scrapper burn. Power siphon certainly does also so if you meant soul drain, I don't see why that wouldn't.
Quote:
Do you know the amount of base damage Firey Embrace boosts Scrapper Burn?
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Assuming you mean fiery embrace there, it does indeed boost scrapper burn. Power siphon certainly does also so if you meant soul drain, I don't see why that wouldn't.
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No clue unfortunately, and my dude isn't level 50 yet so even if I had the inclination to test it wouldn't work so well right now.
Well thank you all for the input i went with the brute cause you cant kill nothin while dead 
now to figure out how to get massive recharge on soul drain without gimping my res/def. btw any one got numbers on how low i can get souldrains recharge ?
Quote:
I believe most people suggest going for S/L Defense and +RCH.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
Well thank you al for the imput i went with the brute cause you cant kill nothin while dead
now to figure out how to get massive recharge on soul drain without gimping my res/def. btw any one got numbers on how low i can get souldrains recharge ? |
Not really much you can do to get higher Resistance out of base slotting.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I have a DM/Fire Brute and it is awesome here is the build I am working towards at the moment. Beware it is quite expensive though and it can only get about 40% S/L defence
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Thief of Life: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
- (7) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (11) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (11) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (13) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 50
- (13) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (15) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (15) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 50
- (17) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (17) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (25) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
- (27) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
- (27) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (29) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (31) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (43) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (46) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (46) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Flight Speed IO: Level 50
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
- (21) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40
- (31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
- (34) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (A) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
- (50) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (50) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
- (21) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection: Level 30
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40
- (37) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
- (37) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (37) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff: Level 50
- (34) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
- (40) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
- (40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (40) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (42) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Hecatomb - Damage: Level 50
- (33) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (33) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 50
- (33) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (34) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge: Level 50
- (45) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (45) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize: Level 50
- (45) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range: Level 50
- (46) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
- (A) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50
- (48) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (48) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (48) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range: Level 50
- (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy: Level 50
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Flight Speed IO: Level 50
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50
- (7) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50
- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (5) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 11% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 11% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 11% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 11% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 11% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 11% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 11% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 11% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 33.63% Defense(Smashing)
- 33.63% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 6.75% Defense(Energy)
- 6.75% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 26.75% Defense(Melee)
- 4.875% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 60% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 55% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 129.31 HP (8.626%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 17.05%
- MezResist(Stun) 6.6%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 8% (0.134 End/sec) Recovery
- 34% (2.128 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 5.355% Resistance(Fire)
- 5.355% Resistance(Cold)
- 1.26% Resistance(Energy)
- 3.135% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
------------
Set Bonuses:
Kinetic Combat
(Shadow Punch)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 22.49 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
(Fire Shield)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
(Smite)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 22.49 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
(Healing Flames)
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Air Superiority)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 22.49 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
(Siphon Life)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 22.49 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
(Siphon Life)
- 12% (0.751 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Blazing Aura)
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.875% Defense(Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Smashing)
(Boxing)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 22.49 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
(Plasma Shield)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
(Dark Consumption)
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.875% Defense(Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Smashing)
(Temperature Protection)
- 1.5% (0.025 End/sec) Recovery
- 3% Defense(Melee), 3% Defense(AoE), 3% Defense(Ranged), 3% Defense(Smashing), 3% Defense(Lethal), 3% Defense(Fire), 3% Defense(Cold), 3% Defense(Energy), 3% Defense(Negative), 3% Defense(Psionic)
- Knockback (Mag -4), Knockup (Mag -4)
(Tough)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
(Weave)
- 10% (0.626 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 16.87 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Soul Drain)
- 2% DamageBuff(All)
- 1.26% Resistance(Energy,Negative)
(Burn)
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.875% Defense(Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Smashing)
(Midnight Grasp)
- 4% (0.067 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Combat Jumping)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Soul Tentacles)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 1.875% Resistance(Negative)
- 2.5% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Melee)
- 3.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Dark Obliteration)
- 2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
- 1.575% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Health)
- 12% (0.751 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Stamina)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
Scrappers will do more damage, but Brutes will be able to leverage AoE's better because of the taunt aura. If you don't care about AoE damage as much or being able to hold aggro (even if it's just to use your AoE's effectively), then the Scrapper is the better choice. Otherwise, I'd still go with the Brute.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]