To kill all or not...

I just wanted to tell some folks that I'm sorry for the way an ITF turned out last night.

I joined a team for a kill-all ITF. Because the team recruiter wasn't level 50, I was asked to be the leader.

People are people. At the end of one mission, someone exited instead of remaining to "kill all". Others soon followed suit, leaving me and the recruiting toon with 25% more of the map to go.

If I had been the initial recruiter and team leader, I'd have just exited. But, the recruiter was and is a global friend and was very clear before we started - a kill - all, which is not easily confused with kill-most or kill some or speed.
So, I stayed to help clear.

To be brief, another player whom I have a great amount of respect for asked if it was possible to turn it into a kill most, rather than all.

I said it was okay with me - but it wasn't my call.
To make a long story short - the whole thing was a waste of time for me. No notice of the well, no completion. After two members quit, the others soon followed. I can't really blame them, even though they knew going in it was a
kill all.
I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm sorry things turned out so lousy.

Not your fault Rex.

I actually hold the team members responsible for that failed ITF. If a player understands that they are in for a scorched earth/ Kill all Task Force then it it up to them to understand that it will add at least another hour or two to any tf.

You have been on a few of my scorched earths I announce them that way and I recruit them that way. There are several players who know not to accept and there are several others whom I don't invite because fo the seceniro you talked about. It is not fair to them or the team if they cann't or won't do as asked. I'm sorry your experience was bad.


AV

Valor has nailed it on the head. Now usually if it is getting longer than expected and the team asks to speed it up I never have a problem with that. But if the team doesnt like the decision made (if it was the original focus of the TF) then they should suck it up for 30 to an hour and make sure they dont ASK to be on a TF that is being ran that way again.


But at the end of the day thats exactly what it is, they ASKED to be a part of it. If someones asks you, "Would Pepsi be ok" when you asked for coke, do you flip the table up and scream "TO HELL WITH YOU!"


No and if you do then you need to come to my restaurant and try to pull that garbage.

I think kill all is a little misleading honestly. It needs to be emphasized. This is a kill all. Kill everything. Kill every last one of them. Then there's no misunderstanding. Ask everyone on the team to acknowledge the fact that they understand that every last enemy must die.

Kill-all is almost synonymous with kill everything in the way and not kill everything and if I was reading it and wanted to join an ITF I might miss the fact that it's a kill everything and not kill everything in our path just because that's what I'm used to and my guess is a lot of others are in the same boat. I've never been part of or run a kill everything ITF.

Were they wrong to quit, ***** and moan? Yeah. But did they join and try to grief the kill everything ITF? No. They just assumed it was a kill most.

I think your friend should've compromised and did a kill most. It's still XP and rewards and he can learn from it when he recruits next time.

As for the other 2 responses -- Don't go pointing fingers you goody-two-shoe-wearing meatheads!!!

Regards,
Fitz

Fitz, I actually agree with you, hence the reason for my post. I think there should have been compromise as well - but, I felt that the terms were laid out, so if choice A - I offend a stubborn friend, if choice B, I offend the rest.

Heh, what I should have done was just log and claim d/c so that I no longer had the star.

Please make note that I'm not apologizing for anything I did or didn't do. I just regret how things panned out. Some folks have a block of time to play, and once a fraction of it is gone, they can't accomplish that one objective they set out to do. I feel badly for those folks.

Is it just me or do ITFs seem to have this problem more than other TFs?

Was on one the other day. Right up front, before actually starting, the Leader asked if we wanted speed run or shards. Most of us said we didn't care, two people wanted shards, Leader suggested a 'kill most' with a decided emphasis on 'Not a Speed Run' and then waited to see if anyone wanted to leave. I will add, this was like Wednesday, there were at least two other ITFs gearing up at the same time and lots of folks around so anyone who wanted to leave was not going to have a long wait for a new team.

So, we get going and this one scrapper goes off on a speed/stealth run to hit the mission objectives in the tunnels. Our Leader called him on it several times, without ever getting an answer. After freeing all the oracle ladies, Scrapper goes outside and waits. Eventually he quits when no one rushes out to join him. I'm confuzzled as to why he stayed at all when there was a very clear discussion about not speed running it before we started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ukaserex People are people. At the end of one mission, someone exited instead of remaining to "kill all". Others soon followed suit, leaving me and the recruiting toon with 25% more of the map to go.

My only question here was, did they mean to leave? I have accidentally hit 'exit' at the end of a mission when I had mean to stay and finish clearing the map. It's sort of a Pavlovian reflex. That 'Mission Complete Bugle' sounds off and I hit exit. And once one person leaves, others may have followed out of the same sort of reflex. Or did the others say they didn't want to stick around any longer?

A good leader (imo) always does whats 'best' for the team. If the majority of the team is leaning one way then the team should go that way. A stuburn leader has resulted in more than a few failed TFs/Mishes...

It's like in the movie A Beautiful Mind... If we all go for the blonde we all lose... By no one going for the blonde we all win... which is what we want... to win...

The leader seemed to have wanted XP since he wasnt level 50... So in his stubborness he missed out on the end of TF bonus XP and all the XP that would have come with a kill most...

The team missed out on shards/merits/incarnate component by quitting after making a commitment to the TF.

I'm a fan of the 'Kill Most' or 'Kill what is in our way' style... However, even those two can be ran more quickly than some on the team anticipate.

Whenever I see an ITF LFM I simply asking in channel or in /tell to the one recruiting how the mission is going to run... If it is something I feel comfortable with and have time for, or think I would enjoy, I ask for an invite... If the TF sounds as if it will be something I don't want to do, I simply thank them and move on...

Communication is the key IMHO... I also know a lot of the people that lead the ITF's and I understand their play style... But again, never assume... ask!

As far as characters joining the team and 'not' following the guidelines as announced... I ask the leader if this is acceptable and then decide for myself if I want to stay or not... If the whole team (minus 1 or 2) is expecting a shard run and 1 or 2 others are making it a speed run... I think all just need to wait it out because eventually they will either slow down or quit... If you're a mission or even two into it and the team disbands... What is wrong with regrouping, dropping the TF and starting over... It certainly wont take any more time.. will it?

Just random thoughts from the ol' Dragon

I think the reason this happens with the ITF more than others is because if you don't "speed" through - simply killing what's in the way can last quite a long time, particularly with the plentiful ambushes. The last two missions have a vast number of bad guys.

See, I had the star, but I wasn't the real leader of the team. I was just appointed the star because I was level 50. I didn't want to offend my global friend by simply changing objectives mid-course, not when it was emphatically stated before we started it was a kill-all.

With some toons, I prefer a "speed-ish" - but I'm sorry - only needing 20 minutes to finish a tf is ridiculous. It concerns me that in the future, data mining may result in this tf giving only 9 merits instead of 26. (Honestly, I don't even know for sure if they data mine such things but I'm thinking they must.)

I think a team leader should be flexible - to a point. Real life issues do occur! A sick kid is all the reason I need to change from kill most to speed run. When I recruit and lead, I like to speed through the first 3 maps, then kill all on the last one - AFTER the mission objectives are met, so those that want to leave can do so. It also makes sense to ensure you can actually deal with Romi successfully before you waste your time dealing with the rest of the traitors. I've been on a couple of teams that simply didn't have the stuff to deal with Romi.

But, please rest assured, if I recruit, I am not stubborn - I am flexible and if circumstances change, I'll let the team express their preference and then do what I think is right for the team as a whole. But in this case, I didn't think I was in a position to do the right thing without offending a friend.

To be honest, even if the leader announces a plan at the beginning and people don't follow it, you can't completely blame them if the leader doesn't say or do anything to stop it. Sure, they didn't listen in the beginning, but this is the Internet...people are stupid. Wel, people are stupid outside of the Internet, but you know what I mean.

I also want to point something out from Wendy's post which I am too lazy to quote and cut out sections. It's not just the "Tanks/Brutes/Scrappers/etc" that can speed, and it's not just "smart" squishies that sit at the door. I have played and seen many Defenders and Controllers and the like through speed runs without issue...squishies huddling at the door to avoid deaths during speeds is a harsh generalization.

In the end, my opinion is that it really doesn't matter. So I get 26 merits and some kills in 30 minutes, or 26 merits and a bunch of kills in 40-50 minutes. Who cares? I'm still getting shards, merits, xp, etc. If taking 20-30 extra minutes for a few more shards is really the most important thing you have to do that day, you probably have bigger things to worry about. Although I'm probably not one to talk, CoH is most of my day....

Someone help me, but I agree with Camo. It's a well known fact that some people are just stupid and you really can't fix it.

If someone runs off on their own and I'm leader, I might not kick them but I sure will be one starring them and adding a global note why. Same with someone that is known to afk. I wanted 8 people on the team doing team stuff, not 7 people and a body.

The best thing to do is what you already are doing, make it clear how you are running the tf and getting rid of the people at the start that arent of the same mind set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn Hazy is right