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Insert shameless plug for sonic resonance (as well as forcefield) improvements here. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Sonic has major problems against Psi damage. It offers zero defense or protection and can't heal the damage back. Force Field is vulnerable to a subset of Psi (derrived from Mind and Illusion Control mainly) but Sonic gets absolutely destroyed...
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I might have to try this. If I can play a ninja/poison then ninja/sonic should be a piece of cake. Violent, bloody, high dps cake, admittedly.
It's probably not going to be as good on MMs as /traps or /dark, but what is, really :P
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As a counterpoint though a /Traps MM can reasonably softcap all positions and take an Epic Shield to get more resistance to S/L/Something than the /Sonic MM.
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Originally Posted by Lobster
I have a /son controller that I was able to defcap S/L on. Pair that with tough + sonic resists and I think it will be pretty solid.
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Won't the ally debuff draw aggro to the MM, also?
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No that was changed ages ago.
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
Won't the ally debuff draw aggro to the MM, also?
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The more I think about it, the more I think /Sonic is going to be pretty bad on MM. /sonic offers no healing and aid other has its limit.
With Mastermind's buff value, sonic shields' buff value is even less than Corruptor's. The only set that may work is with Demon or maybe Thug.
I rather get Cold Domination than /Sonic. I've tried /sonic on Corruptor and I almost deleted him at lvl 42. I am really not thrilled about a resistance-based set with weaker buff values and no aoe healing to back up. /Thermal makes sense but not /sonic.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Cold Domination would own. Straight away it would be right up there with traps, dark, or thermal. Perhaps even better... Rad would also be bad to the bone. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
The more I think about it, the more I think /Sonic is going to be pretty bad on MM. /sonic offers no healing and aid other has its limit.
With Mastermind's buff value, sonic shields' buff value is even less than Corruptor's. The only set that may work is with Demon or maybe Thug. I rather get Cold Domination than /Sonic. I've tried /sonic on Corruptor and I almost deleted him at lvl 42. I am really not thrilled about a resistance-based set with weaker buff values and no aoe healing to back up. /Thermal makes sense but not /sonic. |
I agree though, sonic looks like meh.... No heals. No Regen Debuff for AV stomping. Resistance < Def. Yea, I won't be rolling one...
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Even though I agree with everyone, I want to be fair when responding to your post. Cold also has no heals, and sonic probably has the most -resist than any other set in the game, plus acc is usually not an issue later on.
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Originally Posted by Crazyfist
Cold Domination would own. Straight away it would be right up there with traps, dark, or thermal. Perhaps even better... Rad would also be bad to the bone.
I agree though, sonic looks like meh.... No heals. No Regen Debuff for AV stomping. Resistance < Def. Yea, I won't be rolling one... |
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But if they follow debuff modifier for MM, /Sonic debuff value won't be that high. That's the problem. Freezing Rain is a "pet" so the debuff value is at 30% which is the same value for defender, corr and troller. |
Originally Posted by JayboH
Even though I agree with everyone, I want to be fair when responding to your post. Cold also has no heals, and sonic probably has the most -resist than any other set in the game, plus acc is usually not an issue later on.
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But again, I don't know if they are going to follow MM's modifier this time because the resistance will be quite low. I am thinking they'll keep sonic shields at corr's value but the resistance debuffs are lower. That's my guess.
In fact, looking at MM/thermal, the two fire shields have the same 15% resistance buff which is the same as Corr's. Forge buff value is less and Heat Exhaustion debuff value is less (as it should be on MM). Melting Armor is interesting because the -defense value is less but -resistance value is the same as Corr's at 22.5%.
Cold Domination has defense which fits better for pets that have low HP and lower resistance. It's better to avoid hits than to "resist" it if you don't have healing or higher HP to back it up. Cold Domination also has "Sleet" and "Heat Loss" which debuff 30% resistance because they are "pets". Frostwork can be applied at least on two pets all the time and that's +HP, which is like "Resist to All Damage Type".
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Remember that +hp is not healed, it just raises their cap and they need to heal that up first before it is useful.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Even though I agree with everyone, I want to be fair when responding to your post. Cold also has no heals, and sonic probably has the most -resist than any other set in the game, plus acc is usually not an issue later on.
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Again I think the issue is going to be Psi damage...
With Cold and Force Field you get only low Psi defense, but you can also deflect with Ranged or AoE protection. A few powers from the Mind and Illusion set will bypass this, but mainly these are risky for their mezzes more than their damage. (Force Fielders hate Mezmerize especially).
With Resistance, 100% of the Psi damage rips through at full effect.
It was very noticeable for me on my various Sonic characters. I think on Masterminds Thermal is just tooooo much more attractive for Sonic to compare to. And then Thermal gets -Regen and a fairly large -Damage power for the hard targets, and huge run speed and recharge debuff resistance. I also am curious how compliant Mastermind pets will be about using the Sonic debuff ring intelligently.
I guess Sonic gets Liquefy, but I've never been impressed with it.
Because the Sky is blue and the devs hate Master Minds.... >.>
Just hasn't happened. Give it time, it will happen eventually, maybe they will even buff Sonic in the process. [Sonic Repulsion] anyone? Who in the world thought that was a great power?
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
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Uh, we are getting Sonic. You might have missed the memo. It comes with the next issue.
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Originally Posted by _Pine_
Because the Sky is blue and the devs hate Master Minds.... >.>
Just hasn't happened. Give it time, it will happen eventually, maybe they will even buff Sonic in the process. [Sonic Repulsion] anyone? Who in the world thought that was a great power? |
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Sonic, as it stands now, is going to be a pretty terrible MM secondary. Sonic is already limping way behind the other buff sets. I'll lay it out for you.
Sonic buffs have the same numbers as force fields. But resistance is only half as good as defense since 1 point of defense brings you a lot closer to the 45% soft cap (which means only 10% of damage reaches you) than 1 point of resistance who's soft cap is 75% and that's still 25% of damage getting through. AND it has a psi damage hole. So Ice and Force fields leave it in the dust already.
All other resistance sets have healing to make up for resistance being generally pretty crappy. Anyone who has rolled a Thermal MM know you need to heal your pets constantly to keep them on their feet. Sonic has no heals at all. Dispersion will allow you to give pets more resistance than Thermal can but it's still not going to make up for Thermal's heals.
Now let's look at the debuffs. Disruption Field is going to cost and unGodly amount of endurance for MMs to run and it left in the dust by the -res powers in thermal, ice, and weather who all have better -res and have -defense as well. Syphon means that sonic comes out on top for single target -res but still no -defense or any of those other debuffs ice and weather get with their rains. Not to mention you need a meleer to make Disruption work.
Let's forget Repulsion and Cage. Someone will argue that they know of a situation where these are useful. I prefer powers that are useful all the time, not just in one specific mission. So sonic is saddled with two completely skippable powers.
The only thing sonic has going for it is Liquefy. And if it were up as often as Freezing Rain, Earthquake, or Sleet is then I'd say it almost saves the set but Liquefy's recharge is FIVE TIMES that of those other powers.
No. The buffs and debuffs are rendered obsolete by other sets and its only crowd control has a ridiculous recharge on it. If they're going to port over Sonic then they really need to spend some time and do a LONG over due revamp of the set.
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My thoughts exactly. Like I said, I am already not too thrilled with my Corr's /sonic. I still need to use aid other/self to back up resistance shields and Corr's version is supposed to be stronger. Pets have low health so even if you have extra 15% more resistance from Dispersion isn't not going to make any meaningful difference when they get hit by something +2 or +6 on minions.
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Originally Posted by Mid_Boss
Sonic, as it stands now, is going to be a pretty terrible MM secondary. Sonic is already limping way behind the other buff sets. I'll lay it out for you.
Sonic buffs have the same numbers as force fields. But resistance is only half as good as defense since 1 point of defense brings you a lot closer to the 45% soft cap (which means only 10% of damage reaches you) than 1 point of resistance who's soft cap is 75% and that's still 25% of damage getting through. AND it has a psi damage hole. So Ice and Force fields leave it in the dust already. All other resistance sets have healing to make up for resistance being generally pretty crappy. Anyone who has rolled a Thermal MM know you need to heal your pets constantly to keep them on their feet. Sonic has no heals at all. Dispersion will allow you to give pets more resistance than Thermal can but it's still not going to make up for Thermal's heals. Now let's look at the debuffs. Disruption Field is going to cost and unGodly amount of endurance for MMs to run and it left in the dust by the -res powers in thermal, ice, and weather who all have better -res and have -defense as well. Syphon means that sonic comes out on top for single target -res but still no -defense or any of those other debuffs ice and weather get with their rains. Not to mention you need a meleer to make Disruption work. Let's forget Repulsion and Cage. Someone will argue that they know of a situation where these are useful. I prefer powers that are useful all the time, not just in one specific mission. So sonic is saddled with two completely skippable powers. The only thing sonic has going for it is Liquefy. And if it were up as often as Freezing Rain, Earthquake, or Sleet is then I'd say it almost saves the set but Liquefy's recharge is FIVE TIMES that of those other powers. No. The buffs and debuffs are rendered obsolete by other sets and its only crowd control has a ridiculous recharge on it. If they're going to port over Sonic then they really need to spend some time and do a LONG over due revamp of the set. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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What he said. Also, don't forget that there is no -regen in the set for "hard" target smashing. Although not as big a deal as the obvious pet insta-splat factor that this crappy 2ndary has going on, the lack of -regen is just icing on the cake.
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Originally Posted by Mid_Boss
Sonic, as it stands now, is going to be a pretty terrible MM secondary. Sonic is already limping way behind the other buff sets. I'll lay it out for you.
Sonic buffs have the same numbers as force fields. But resistance is only half as good as defense since 1 point of defense brings you a lot closer to the 45% soft cap (which means only 10% of damage reaches you) than 1 point of resistance who's soft cap is 75% and that's still 25% of damage getting through. AND it has a psi damage hole. So Ice and Force fields leave it in the dust already. All other resistance sets have healing to make up for resistance being generally pretty crappy. Anyone who has rolled a Thermal MM know you need to heal your pets constantly to keep them on their feet. Sonic has no heals at all. Dispersion will allow you to give pets more resistance than Thermal can but it's still not going to make up for Thermal's heals. Now let's look at the debuffs. Disruption Field is going to cost and unGodly amount of endurance for MMs to run and it left in the dust by the -res powers in thermal, ice, and weather who all have better -res and have -defense as well. Syphon means that sonic comes out on top for single target -res but still no -defense or any of those other debuffs ice and weather get with their rains. Not to mention you need a meleer to make Disruption work. Let's forget Repulsion and Cage. Someone will argue that they know of a situation where these are useful. I prefer powers that are useful all the time, not just in one specific mission. So sonic is saddled with two completely skippable powers. The only thing sonic has going for it is Liquefy. And if it were up as often as Freezing Rain, Earthquake, or Sleet is then I'd say it almost saves the set but Liquefy's recharge is FIVE TIMES that of those other powers. No. The buffs and debuffs are rendered obsolete by other sets and its only crowd control has a ridiculous recharge on it. If they're going to port over Sonic then they really need to spend some time and do a LONG over due revamp of the set. |
I think /Sonic would work out fairly decently for Robotics, Necro and Demons.
-regen isn't as important as -res imo
I think a Thugs/Sonic would be pretty useful for farming, its a shame that /Kinetics isnt on a MM secondary, a Thugs/Kin MM would be TO SICK!
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Would be glorious to have disruption on a brute thug or even on ninjas, although they would benefit more from ff.
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