Explosions or Self Improvement, a Fire/Rad dilemma


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Posted

My main character, a fire/rad is approaching 30 and he finds himself at a developmental crossroads.

Here is my current build, disregarding slots and some misremembering the order in taking them:

1 - Char
1 - RA
2 - Fire Cages
4 - RI
6 - AM
8 - Hot Feet
10 - Combat Jumping
12 - Flash Fire
14 - Super Jump
16 - Assault
18 - Enervating Field
20 - Hasten
22 - Lingering Radiation
24 - Cinders
26 - Bonfire
28 - Choking Cloud

And here is the plan for the future:

30 - ???
32 - Fire Pimps
35 - ???
38 - EM Pulse
41 - Fire Ball
44 - Fire Shield
47 - Consume
50 - ???

You can see a couple of holes where i'm not sure what direction i'd like to go in. Here is the first.

30 - Acrobatics
35 - Tactics

I suppose this is the "safe" way. Two useful powers that will help me in a number of ways and be available all the time whether solo or teaming. This choice feels prudent and boring... As opposed to my other option...

30 - Mutation
35 - Fallout

...which seems more fun. And it also goes along with the Bonfire, Fire Ball, big explosions, burning alive-feel i enjoy about playing a Fire/Rad. But it would only be useful on teams... and even then only on teams where people are dying and with my playstyle I am usually one of the first to die as I am in the mix with the scrappers and tanks.

Local Man, i've read your comments about Fallout and in them one of the more alarming things i see is that you sometimes never get to use it because you forget it exists. This leads me to believe that A) the power isn't as cool as I think it is and B) It is really that rare to find situations to use it. I also see your other advice that this power is too situational to justify sacrificing other, more useful powers. I understand... but Fallout sounds sooo cool!

So, veterans, your thoughts? Will the Fallout/Mutation combo really be used enough to justify taking them? Is there a happy medium? If I take Fallout, is Mutation required? By going with the explodey option, will my character be badly borked without Acrobatics and Tactics? Should i just take Fallout at 50 as like a retirement present to myself?


 

Posted

If you choose Tactics, you may regret it . . . Tactics improves perception, allowing the Fire Imps to have a larger aggro radius. Also, as a Fire/Rad, you already have some endurance-eating toggles.

One other option you may not have considered: Super Speed with a Stealth IO for full invisibility. It is very handy for running into the middle of a group of foes and hitting Cinders. It also lets you stealth missions, running around to find glowies or find targets in those "find x" missions. If you have the Assemble Team vet power or Temp power, it can be even more handy. (Frankly, I prefer Super Speed + Raptor Pack over Super Jump.)

Mutation is a handy power to have. Certainly not essetial, but nice for teaming. Fallout is kind of fun, but very situational; also, if you have Fallout, not being able to rez a teammate after you have exploded his corpse is kind of rude. Another option, especially if you go with Super Speed + Stealth, is Recall Friend.

I actually have 2 Fire/Rads at 50 . . . both of them have the Psi APP for Indomidible Will. Getting mezzed knocks off your Hot Feet and Choking Cloud toggles, and you can substantially reduce that happening with IW. Plus, Psi Tornado is nice AoE damage with a different damage type than Fire AND some knockup to provide additional control. The Shield, Mind Over Body is decent. You do give up access to an endurance Recovery power, but you can get past that with good slotting. (One of my Fire/Rads has Mutation & Fallout, the other has Mutation and Recall Friend.)

I haven't taken Acrobatics on a character since the -knockback IOs came out (except one, and I eventually respec'ed out on that one). Put a Karma -Knockback in Combat Jumping. I get knocked back once in a while, but not very often. I don't find that it is worth a power choice.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
Mutation is a handy power to have. Certainly not essetial, but nice for teaming. Fallout is kind of fun, but very situational; also, if you have Fallout, not being able to rez a teammate after you have exploded his corpse is kind of rude. Another option, especially if you go with Super Speed + Stealth, is Recall Friend.
Just an aside, but I find this a bit odd. Since Fallout does no harm to the fallen and benefits the team, why would anyone consider it rude that it was used with or without a rez? People certainly don't expect one to have a rez simply because one has Vengeance. Heck, I find it difficult to fire off my Power Boost/Fallout/Vengeance combo before people are picking themselves up despite the fact that I've informed the team I can rez.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
(Frankly, I prefer Super Speed + Raptor Pack over Super Jump.)
Quick off-topic question: Raptor Pack uses one's run speed? I assumed it used one's jump speed due to the character making the "HOO!" jumping noise when Raptor...ing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Demacian View Post
Quick off-topic question: Raptor Pack uses one's run speed? I assumed it used one's jump speed due to the character making the "HOO!" jumping noise when Raptor...ing.
You are thinking of the Zero-G Pack, which does jumping. The Raptor Pack is the Flight pack that you can get at level 5 from the scanner missions, and then buy replacements for in the Shard or Grandville, or you can craft one from a recipe. The Raptor Pack is now just as fast as Fly . . . which are both at capped flight speed with no enhancement whatsoever, not even a Flightspeed in Swift.

So, by taking Super Speed + the Stealth IO and making sure you have a Raptor Pack, you have Super Speed on the ground, Invisibility and capped Flight speed for when it is faster to go over stuff instead of around it -- and you have only used one power.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltageAvenger View Post
My main character, a fire/rad is approaching 30 and he finds himself at a developmental crossroads.

Here is my current build, disregarding slots and some misremembering the order in taking them:

1 - Char
1 - RA
2 - Fire Cages
4 - RI
6 - AM
8 - Hot Feet
10 - Combat Jumping
12 - Flash Fire
14 - Super Jump
16 - Assault
18 - Enervating Field
20 - Hasten
22 - Lingering Radiation
24 - Cinders
26 - Bonfire
28 - Choking Cloud

And here is the plan for the future:

30 - ???
32 - Fire Pimps
35 - ???
38 - EM Pulse
41 - Fire Ball
44 - Fire Shield
47 - Consume
50 - ???

You can see a couple of holes where i'm not sure what direction i'd like to go in. Here is the first.

30 - Acrobatics
35 - Tactics

I suppose this is the "safe" way. Two useful powers that will help me in a number of ways and be available all the time whether solo or teaming. This choice feels prudent and boring... As opposed to my other option...

30 - Mutation
35 - Fallout

...which seems more fun. And it also goes along with the Bonfire, Fire Ball, big explosions, burning alive-feel i enjoy about playing a Fire/Rad. But it would only be useful on teams... and even then only on teams where people are dying and with my playstyle I am usually one of the first to die as I am in the mix with the scrappers and tanks.

Local Man, i've read your comments about Fallout and in them one of the more alarming things i see is that you sometimes never get to use it because you forget it exists. This leads me to believe that A) the power isn't as cool as I think it is and B) It is really that rare to find situations to use it. I also see your other advice that this power is too situational to justify sacrificing other, more useful powers. I understand... but Fallout sounds sooo cool!

So, veterans, your thoughts? Will the Fallout/Mutation combo really be used enough to justify taking them? Is there a happy medium? If I take Fallout, is Mutation required? By going with the explodey option, will my character be badly borked without Acrobatics and Tactics? Should i just take Fallout at 50 as like a retirement present to myself?

1: No to tactics. It's effects on your Imps is detrimental.
2: I'd recommend a -KB IO over Acrobatics.
3: While Bonfire is cool and puts out nice damage, it's KB also breaks up close formations, decreasing the efficiency of holds and immobs.

What I prefer is snagging Maneuvers, Assault, and then Vengeance.
That, together with Fallout makes for a hellacious penalty for anyone dumb enough to kill one of your teammates. Vengeance, Fallout, Mutation a trifecta to ruin an enemy's day.

If you want a TankTroller, look at Stone Mastery. Fissure, Rock Armor, and Seismic Smash are guaranteed to make you feel tanky. If you're more worried about just simple survivability, Fissure, Rock Armor, Earth's Embrace. A nifty little self-heal/+HP going into situations with massive damage output.

Local's advice about the Psi pool for Mez protection is fairly good too.

As is his advice about travel power picks.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketch View Post
Just an aside, but I find this a bit odd. Since Fallout does no harm to the fallen and benefits the team, why would anyone consider it rude that it was used with or without a rez? People certainly don't expect one to have a rez simply because one has Vengeance. Heck, I find it difficult to fire off my Power Boost/Fallout/Vengeance combo before people are picking themselves up despite the fact that I've informed the team I can rez.
Yes but anyone no matter powerset can take vengeance, fallout comes in a powerset with a rez in it. I think what Local means is, if you're going to go to the trouble of 'exploiting by exploding my dead corpse' (quotes for intintional hyperbole) at least have the decency to give me a hand when you're done; you have the options. I think his use of the word rude is intended to be a little more harsh than he really means, but I understand what he's saying.


@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff

 

Posted

Personally, I like having Bonfire. It is a situational control/damage power, but it can be very helpful at the right time. For example, I like to throw it at the feet of AVs with Knockback protection . . . it not only does damage, but also knocks back any foes who decide to gang up on you and your team while you try to take down the AV. Bonfire is great in the STF to throw at the Towers, as it knocks back the repair guys -- just make sure they all die. It is also wonderful to throw at the feet of Aeon and Lord Recluse, knocking back the other spawns while you focus on a beatdown of the AV. Bonfire can be used as a Melee-free zone for ranged characters. It can be used to block doorways and hallways and break up ambushes.

On the other hand, I have teamed with a few Bonfire-happy people who throw it all over the place -- which can be really, really frustrating for any teamates with AoE powers or melee attacks. Hyperstrike's criticism of the power is valid if it is used too much. It is possible to use Bonfire as a damage power by using Fire Cages' 12 seconds of -knockback to turn Bonfire into a pure damage power . . . but only if you don't miss any of the foes.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalMaden View Post
Yes but anyone no matter powerset can take vengeance, fallout comes in a powerset with a rez in it. I think what Local means is, if you're going to go to the trouble of 'exploiting by exploding my dead corpse' (quotes for intintional hyperbole) at least have the decency to give me a hand when you're done; you have the options. I think his use of the word rude is intended to be a little more harsh than he really means, but I understand what he's saying.
Ah, yes, the Internet strikes again. My use of the word "rude" was tongue-in-cheek. If you are going to explode a teammate's corpse, which doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do . . . shouldn't you have the decency to at least give him a hand up with a rez? Just leaving his blown-up body there seems kind of sad . . .


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
Ah, yes, the Internet strikes again. My use of the word "rude" was tongue-in-cheek. If you are going to explode a teammate's corpse, which doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do . . . shouldn't you have the decency to at least give him a hand up with a rez? Just leaving his blown-up body there seems kind of sad . . .
Aye, my Plant/Emp/Primal will rez and buff the poor unfortunate up once I've Vengied the entire team from their sorry hide.

The way I see it is if Mr Vengie-bait gets a taste of godmode for 90 seconds after they rez it encourages them to get themselves killed more often, hence more Vengie goodness for me.

"Whose a good boy getting themselves all deaded in order to buff the team? You are! Yes you are! You're the best boy/girl/fearsome-entity-from-beyond. Have a Power Boosted Fortitude and an Adrenaline Boost as a reward"

I'd go with Mutation and Fallout for levels 30 and 35. Not sure what to take at 49. Vengeance isn't opened up in that build as-is, otherwise I'd be going for that.

Agree with Hyperstrike on the APP as well. Stone works well with Fire because you can follow up Flashfire with Fissure and have a 50% chance of stunning any bosses in the bunch (and if that fails just Seismic Smash them).


 

Posted

The Tactics thing seems overblown. Sure, your imps will pick up some extra aggro; BFD, you're a Fire/Rad, suck it up. I'd rather just never miss (nor have my teammates miss), even when RI's not on. Plus it's a great place to slot Gaussians, and that extra perception will also help you when you get smoked/blined/etc. Sure w/proper slotting & IOs, you can have accuracy through the roof, but your teammates won't always, plus there are enough problem mobs for which Tactics is a godsend.

If you're going for the Fallout > Mutation route, you'll also want Veng in the mix (and TP other if you can possibly squeeze it in). Fallout + Veng is a mighty good rationale for suicide in this game. Having said that, I'd skip Fallout (might still take Veng if you have room).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
The Tactics thing seems overblown. Sure, your imps will pick up some extra aggro; BFD, you're a Fire/Rad, suck it up. I'd rather just never miss (nor have my teammates miss), even when RI's not on.
Never had a problems with tactics on my Fire/Emp. Of course, that was one of my "50 and done" toons, so perhaps had I played it more I'd have seen something.

But even if there is a problem with it, I'd think you'll have to learn to deal with it anyway, if for no other reason than you'll eventually team with people who have it.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
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Posted

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess one of the great things about this game is being able to respec so i'm probably going to forgo my head and go with my gut and take Mutation and Fallout. I'm by no means a roleplayer but i like to consider this character to be a representation of myself in the game. And i think it would be cool to be able to do these things. Choking Cloud would be useful at my job for instance... on the minions at least. The bosses would obviously need a little more. And my choice of Fire Mastery is along the same lines of character concept... although you are right Local Man as I would really like some mez protection. It is VERY annoying to have everything up and working nicely, people burning all around you, and to suddenly have everything just stop.

I've also noticed with CC i don't really use Cinders all that often. I like having it but I rarely use it so it might be respecced out for a utility power like Recall Friend. Bonfire however has made me find ways to use it, like in corners or in low level zones where i can go to a roof top and blast people off. That always gets a good laugh.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post
Never had a problems with tactics on my Fire/Emp. Of course, that was one of my "50 and done" toons, so perhaps had I played it more I'd have seen something.

But even if there is a problem with it, I'd think you'll have to learn to deal with it anyway, if for no other reason than you'll eventually team with people who have it.
Dealing with 1 extra x8 mob? Do-able. Dealing with 2-3 extra?

Uhm. No.



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Posted

I guess I'll buck the trend a bit; I do have Assault/Tactics on my Fire/Rad and I haven't had all that much problem with wandering monkeys while it helps considerably on the accuracy of Cinders and Cages.

My normal MO is to nail the next group with Flashfire followed by Cages, run into melee and Char anything still active then Cages again followed by Bonfire. I keep spamming Cages every 5-10 seconds to maintain the -kb so Bonfire doesn't send stuff flying. Once that group's down I move on to the next and nail them with Cinders followed by Cages. I never drop Bonfire until after the second application of Cages as insurance, and I rarely loose more than one or two mobs to the KB.

Power wise like Local I have the Psi epic for IW and Psi 'Nado. I don't have Mutation or Fallout, while I wouldn't mind having Mutation I just don't see enough benefit to Fallout to justify the power selection and the slots to make it useful.

Hmm, looking over my build I see that I definitely need to respec; I'm still operating on a pre- issue 19 build. That'll open up room for Mutation and probably Maneuvers. That's one of the problems of having large numbers of alts, some of them tend to sit idle for extended periods.


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