I have them both!
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Wonderful!|
Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
I have them both!
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That puts you in a perfect position to answer my question.
No doubt even now you are composing a response to my query, founded on your detailed knowledge of both powers.
I look forward to reading it with eager anticipation.
In an unrelated note, my first post has been updated.
Mechanically, Hurl has slightly higher DPA (27 vs 24 unslotted at 50), and Willpower isn't going to curse the long animation - it's not like you have click powers to save yourself you wouldn't get to use. Recharge is slightly higher, but you shouldn't be using it enough to notice. The only issue is the KB - almost Mag 8, so expect to see them fly a good way back, though the -fly should help you get up close and personal in some other situations.
Hurl by a hair, purely mechanically. But a lot of people can't stand the animation, and I'm not going to fault someone for taking LBE.
What's your travel power? Hurl can only be used when standing on the ground. If you have hover, take Laser eye beams.
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Wouldn't Foot Stomp also turn off while airborne? I can't see a lot of /SS tanks actually hover-tanking much other than Lord Recluse.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
What's your travel power? Hurl can only be used when standing on the ground. If you have hover, take Laser eye beams.
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but yeah, fair enough. Superman tributes should probably favour LBE, since it actually works in midair.
Well, I have Hurl because Laser Eye Beams does not fit my concept. If Weapons Mastery were available to tankers, I'd have Shuriken.
But the inability to use Hurl in the air comes up when the target is outside of my range when standing on the ground, like some Mitochondria when fighting Hamidon.
I will admit that it isn't a common issue though.
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I use Combat Jumping/Super Jump, so either power would work.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
What's your travel power? Hurl can only be used when standing on the ground. If you have hover, take Laser eye beams.
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Looking at Mids it lists a radius for Hurl. Since the attack seems single target, I'm wondering if the taunt of that attack is AoE, which would allow it to help with aggro.
On the other hand, Mids shows that LBE can be slotted for -defense, and have the Achilles process for possible -resistance, so it could be used as a combo damage/utility power, and perhaps as a ranged single target taunt.
I also wonder if Bruising would stack with the Achilles proc if it fired. That could make for an potentially good combo of LBE+JAB+KO Blow, if the stars all aligned... making KO Blow more likely to hit, and possibly cause much greater damage.
The taunt is an AoE, the damage is single target. Bruising doesn't stack with itself, but it will stack with the Achilles proc. I think I'd do Jab then Laser Beam Eyes, because, if I remember correctly, Laser Beam Eyes does more damage.
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I'm not quite sure what the duration of -resistance for Bruising is, as it seems a bit longer than Mids suggests... but the effect seems a fair amount shorter than that of the Achilles proc if it fires.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
The taunt is an AoE, the damage is single target. Bruising doesn't stack with itself, but it will stack with the Achilles proc. I think I'd do Jab then Laser Beam Eyes, because, if I remember correctly, Laser Beam Eyes does more damage.
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The way I'm slotting LBE in my experimental Mids build that includes it I sacrifice some damage to get the -def to 22% for 6 seconds, long enough to follow up with Jab and KO Blow in that window... with a 20% chance of stacking an additional 20% -resistance for 10 seconds for KO Blow to benefit from.
I think that with Jab first followed by LBE that KO Blow might fall outside the Bruising time window, preventing the potential stack of -resistance in the KO Blow strike.
KO Blow has very good accuracy to start with (1.2 base accuracy, 90% vs +0s). Are you sure you need the defense debuff to be quite so large? With Rage unslotted for ToHit, you only need 35.3% accuracy to be capped against +4s. I find 35% accuracy to be more or less unavoidable if you build for any recharge at all and slot any accuracy in your attacks. With the Kismet proc in Combat Jumping it drops to 21.8%; double-stacked rage and no Kismet needs just 0.2%.
Just an FYI - the Achilles Heel proc in LBE is still a great idea. Jsut don't sacrifice damage to make sure KO Blow lands, because it almost always will.
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Strangely enough, on my tank in game, which doesn't have any set IOs, just generics at this point.. it seems to me KO Blow misses more often than my other attacks. I think, though, that it is probably flawed perception on my part, the long windup before hand making the whiffs that do happen stick out more.|
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
KO Blow has very good accuracy to start with (1.2 base accuracy, 90% vs +0s). Are you sure you need the defense debuff to be quite so large? With Rage unslotted for ToHit, you only need 35.3% accuracy to be capped against +4s. I find 35% accuracy to be more or less unavoidable if you build for any recharge at all and slot any accuracy in your attacks. With the Kismet proc in Combat Jumping it drops to 21.8%; double-stacked rage and no Kismet needs just 0.2%.
Just an FYI - the Achilles Heel proc in LBE is still a great idea. Jsut don't sacrifice damage to make sure KO Blow lands, because it almost always will. |
Part of my rationale for slotting LBE for -def if I take it was to help out all my attacks land if I ran up against an enemy I was having trouble hitting, so it wasn't just for the combo in question.
Perhaps that idea is flawed though, and I'd be better off just slotting it as a conventional attack, as when all the set bonuses come into play accuracy probably won't be a problem, as you say.
It may be beneficial though to have that -def in there until the set IOs are in place. That process is going to take a long time. Until then the -def might be handy every so often, and could be switched to something else when the build matures.
Edit: Actually, looking at it again I think your right. Even with non-set IOs the additional -def is likely not needed, so it's better to slot it more like a normal attack with the exception of adding in the the Achilles Heel proc.
I always get Laser Eye Beams. The animation is quicker and it has a -DEF component. Hurl takes longer (even with the quicker animation) and does knockback. As a melee AT, I really hate knockback effects.
So for me the answer is quite clear. Lasers all the way!
Pew! Pew! Pew!
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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Yes, Foot Stomp doesn't work when flying. Quite annoying, but yeah....
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Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Wouldn't Foot Stomp also turn off while airborne? I can't see a lot of /SS tanks actually hover-tanking much other than Lord Recluse.
but yeah, fair enough. Superman tributes should probably favour LBE, since it actually works in midair. |
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
Hurl gets no competition from LBE imo. -Fly, great damage, good gauntlet area. LBE does -def, SS, don't need that imo, if I wasn't SS then I still wouldn't take it especially as no concept of mine requires eye beams.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Take Hurl. Hurl has -fly. You don't really appreciate it until you start using it on flying mobs. And hell, you rip up a giant chunk of floor and hit someone with it. What's not to like?
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Hurl. It's Haymaker with an 80' range.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
I have decided to go with Hurl, for several reasons:
- I believe the AoE taunt effect of Hurl, and the -Fly will be more useful to me than -def of LBE in most cases.
- Hurl is well-suited to the RPed increase of my character's strength related to his incarnate shift.
- In the end I can't shake the feeling that LBE would make my character closer in feel to Superman than I want, whereas Hurl to me has a more universal feel.
- I think it would give more of a feel of actual super strength than I am currently getting from the set, which I think will make the character even more fun for me.
- If I exemplar down I would be able to keep Hurl to a much lower level than LBE.
Thank you all.
I have a level 50 WP/SS tanker that I intend to set up with IOs. I am deciding between Hurl and Laser Beam Eyes.
From a RP standpoint either would fit the character, so that doesn't serve as a way to make the selection.
From a mechanical standpoint which would you choose, and why?
Thank you in advance to those that respond usefully.