Advice needed: Dark Armour

On my never ending quest for the 'perfect' endgame soloer for regular content I've been considering Dark/Fire/Pyre (based largely upon community suggestions), however I've never handled Dark Armour before so I have no idea what to slot for or even how most the powers work. Questions:

1) The 'mez toggles' show a mids cast time of 1.17s, does this mean their mez effect procs every 1.17 seconds?

2) Do the mez toggles override their own mezzes, or stack i.e the duration of a 'Cloak of Fear' mez is 13.6 seconds so with a 1.17 second proc that'd either override its own mez 11 times (13.6/1.17) resulting in a continuous uninterrupted, but not aggregating, 2 mag fear, or it would stack to a 22 mag fear (11 applications of +2 mag). Which is it?

3) What should my slotting look like here? What are Dark's weakest points and how should I use incarnate/IOs to overcome them?

4) Does anyone have a build they're currently running/have run and feel comfortable with solo? May I see it?

5) Does anyone have a build they're currently running/have run and feel comfortable with as a main tank? May I see it?

Thanks guys and girls!

Thanks a lot guys, very helpful posts there.

It seems my quest for the ultimate solo build must strive onwards.

I have a question, I teamed with a Spines/Dark scrapper a few nights ago on an ITF who took almost no damage almost the entire way throughout the TF, yet from reading both of your posts and playing with Mids I don't really understand why this would be the case. Given that the mez toggles do not stack from the same caster (thanks for that), surely a 2 mag mez would be too low to actually mez mobs into being unable to damage you? Or is mob mez resistance/protection a lot lower than I'd presumed?

She also had no endurance issues, but given that she was a scrapper with the body mastery APP that's unsurprising.

IOs do make Dark Armor really nice. My Dark/Dark tank, while not fully IOed runs 10 toggles and rarely uses Dark Consumption for end recovery. And that was before she got her incarnate slotted.

Once I get the tank fully IOed I'll be soft capped to S/L and in the 30's on E/Neg. Even currently with s/l defenses in the upper 30s I can survive quite nicely.

First advice is to get Dark Regeneration and slot in the Theft of Essence; Chance for End proc. I've had the proc go off on multiple targets and not only fill my green bar, but my blue bar as well.

Second bit of advice is go find Dechs Kaison's "Dark Armor sucks" thread. It was pre i19 if I recall, but he's got a Dark/Fire tank soft capped to S/L/E/Neg build in there that you can take a look at.

Thirdly, if you haven't already read Jebe the Pirate's dark armor guide. He also has some very nice pointers/suggestions there.

Fourthly have fun with DA. It's not as bad as some, cough, cough, cough, (Je_Saist), thinks it is.

Just to add my own two cents to the mix, I have a Dark Armor/Elec tanker who's become probably my favorite tanker to play and among the most powerful (if not the single best) in my library. This may be a bit of a long post. You've been warned.

While Je_Saist makes some good points, I have to categorically disagree with the assessment of Dark Armor in a tanking role. As Dechs_Kaison humorously demonstrated in his satirically titled "Dark Armor Sucks" thread, suck it most certainly does not. In all the traditional measures of the tanking role - survivability, aggro management, manipulation and control of mobs (be it herding or simple grouping up of enemies) - Dark Armor performs nicely.

I certainly wouldn't categorize its weaknesses as "everything". In fact, I'll give you a brief rundown of specifically what they are as I see them. Incidentally, the link provided by Je_Saist is not one I would recommend taking at face value. Many of the statements in that guide are poor choices or outdated information. When any player writes a guide it is important to present what the choices are and why the choices were made as they were and in this case several key elements (most notably the Theft of Essence proc) were overlooked entirely while in other cases the power descriptions were actually just wrong. I recommend reading Dechs_Kaison's posts for a better treatment of the strengths of the powerset.

The guide linked by Je_Saist (I believe I read it was Jordan Yen's guide?) seems to have attempted to take a high-recharge or perhaps a hybrid soft-cap/recharge approach to the Dark Armor build rather than building to directly address the set's shortcomings. Also, as I noted above, the guide author does not use the Theft of Essence proc at all and actually advises against the set in favor of Touch of the Nictus. While some +recharge is certainly advantageous for a Dark Armor player - I have Hasten for just this reason - it should be a tertiary goal well behind the more pressing matters of plugging KB holes, addressing the high cost of Dark Regeneration and building for soft-capped Defense. While some elements of that soft-capped Defense may be expensive on the market (Kinetic Combats especially), relatively speaking they are not in the same range as purple IOs or PVP IOs and should be within the grasp of most players with a bit of effort. Pricey, yes, but not as unobtainable as one might surmise from reading that guide.

Nevertheless, on to the specific weak points: out of the box, there are several obvious weaknesses of Dark Armor. This is without a doubt a set that dovetails nicely with Inventions since its shortcomings are all addressed in some way by Set Bonuses. But what are the weaknesses? First and foremost, the lack of knockback protection. Dark Armor is not the only Tanker powerset that has this lack, but it is significant and potentially incapacitating and should be addressed with IOs as soon as possible. Second, Dark Armor lacks any significant amounts of Defense and its levels of Resistance while significant are not comparable with those possible with other powersets such as Invlunerability or Stone Armor's Granite. This means you get hit a lot and you take a lot of damage, forcing you to rely on Dark Regeneration to keep you standing. This brings us to the third problem - Dark Regeneration is a monster on endurance. Again, this can be largely remedied with the Theft of Essence proc and obtaining one should be top priority for any Dark Armor player.

Another supposed weak point I've seen brought up (both in the linked guide and elsewhere) is the concern that some of Dark Armor's powers may interfere with a Tanker's role in gaining and maintaining aggro or in keeping enemies tightly grouped for AOE destruction purposes. The usual powers singled out in this way are Cloak of Darkness (stealth), Oppressive Gloom (aura stun) and Cloak of Fear (aura fear). Firstly, the stealth. This is also your immobilize protection, so unless you're running Combat Jumping you'll want to have this on. It provides a little extra Defense which helps you with softcap. It does not significantly hinder your ability to attract and hold aggro. It just doesn't. I've never had a problem with it personally nor seen it cause an issue in-game, ever. On a more general note, stealth on Tankers has never really been the problem it's been made out to be. Unless you're foregoing Taunt for some reason, there's no reason the small reduction should make any amount of difference given the immense increase you get when you use Taunt.

Then there's the auras. Cloak of Fear's fear effect isn't really a problem. Mobs cower in place and get off an attack or two when they take damage - which, given that you're running or should be running Death Shroud, is all the time. So the fear effect effectively is a recharge debuff on them for all intents and purposes, limiting how often they can attack you. It doesn't disperse the enemies or interfere with aggro unless you are trying to relocate mobs (as the cowering ones may stand in place cowering rather than follow). But that's about it. The real problem with Cloak of Fear is the high endurance cost, but you don't have to run it all the time - some Dark Armor tanks don't run it at all. It's a nice extra layer of mitigation but it's not essential. Then we come to Oppressive Gloom, the stun aura. Stunned mobs will stagger about drunkenly and this may cause them to wander away from the Tanker. Very slowly. If anyone on the team has an AOE immobilize, this is a complete nonissue. If not, the power can easily be turned off and used situationally if the Tanker or the team has a concern about it interfering with tight aggro control. Personally, I do not think this is a major issue but I can see how it might appear to be one on paper. Many Tankers take either Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom anyway, so if this is a concern one might simply opt for Cloak of Fear instead.

By using specific IOs (-KB and ToE proc) and by using Defense bonuses from Sets, it is possible to address all of Dark Armor's shortcomings. If you add softcapped Defense to the set's moderate levels of Resistance, with a powerful heal in Dark Regeneration that is now affordable in terms of endurance, you have the makings of a juggernaut. This only improves once you become an Incarnate and gain access to the Cardiac tree which further streamlines your endurance usage and provides additional Resistance. It is this triple-protection that has earned Dark Armor the "stupid-hard to kill" label from many posters. Given the abundance of Defense bonuses available and the IOs which exactly address Dark Armor's shortcomings, the set has the potential to be among the strongest of the Tanker sets despite its numerous problems at baseline. I would encourage the OP and anyone else to look at Dark Armor carefully before accepting the judgment that it 'sucks'.

A Dark Armor Tanker improves by leaps and bounds as you put work into the build - with just a few relatively inexpensive IOs (a few Knockback Protection IOs and a Theft of Essence proc is where I would begin) you see a huge leap in effectiveness. With the addition of significant amounts of Defense set bonuses, the build again improves dramatically. My final build now routinely serves as main Tanker for task forces and Master runs. It is indeed stupid-hard to kill.

In terms of soloing, your secondary is probably going to matter more, since the more AOE you have the faster you're likely to move solo. My Dark/Elec does very well in this regard. Of course, Dark Armor isn't as aggressively designed as, say, Fiery Aura or Shields, so those might be better picks with an eye towards soloing speed, but personally I think the Dark is the best of both worlds. I may be biased, however. YMMV.

Thanks everyone, for jumping on this before I had the chance to get here. Really warms my heart to see so many people mention me, let alone in such high regard. All I did was make a silly video...

Anyway, here's the latest build I have posted. That's my main tank build, and it's Dark/Fire/Earth. With inherent stamina I've since picked up teleport, oppressive gloom, and quicksand (all one slot wonders).

My solo build is Dark/Fire/Pyre, and trades in hasten and build up for some things. It relies a little more on oppressive gloom because that build doesn't really have any sets. It farms freakshow on -1/x8 well enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect Just wait til Dechs comes along, he'll set you straight.

Claws, I wish I could. I have tried, several times, to get je_saist to see the light. I did a quick search and there are three topics in Tanker discussion alone where I have personally corrected her.

What I find most amusing, though, is her name. "Je sais" is French for "I know," which clearly conveys her overly arrogant attitude. If you'll notice, the correct spelling is "sais," not "saist." To my knowledge, "saist" is not a word.

So it is clear to me that "je saist" doesn't know anything, and admits it freely.

Here's a Dark Armor tip you don't hear every day: Get the Kinetic Dampener temp power. It covers your weaknesses(+30% energy resistance anyone?), lasts 30 minutes, and is dirt cheap.

Dark Armour? Is that the European Server version of Dark Armor?

From a brute standpoint, playing my "SMASHtroller" character that can stun a crowd of minions and up to three bosses at a time, fury is not a problem. If it is, you are not chaining your attacks as well as you could.

As to dark armor: I love the set. I tried to love it back when the sounds didn't suppress nor the toggles stack, but lost interest with time. Once they removed those and put it on brutes, I never looked back. Some call it 'weak,' but you have to take the set where it's at- it's a non-conventional set. This is not invulnerability or stone armor.

The set is at its heart a heal/resistance/mez set. It has enough resistance to slow incoming damage, then mez to slow even that. This can slow damage to a trickle, allowing you to pace your healing. Dark armor offers strengths in areas that are usually achilles' heels. Incidentally, it is weaker against the most common damage types. This makes players used to the common strengths of melee to see it as weak, as they often play around the unconventional way dark armor handles itself, rather than to it.

Mez toggles=oddball melee resistance/defense. You are slowly, and measurably decreasing damage you take by making foes tremble and waddle. While the mez weakens against higher foes, it still has a very distinct advantage- attack prevention. This is similar to the way defense profits against debuffs and nasty secondary effects, but better, as you can prevent yourself from being hit and don't risk bad luck runs on lucky shots. Even if they don't self-stack, preventing hits is far more powerful an ability than many give it credit for.

The weaknesses of dark armor are often easier to plug than the weaknesses of other sets, and the strengths of dark armor are hard if not impossible to replicate elsewhere. Psychic/dark damage is not a problem. The smashing/lethal can be boosted through the pools. The KB by pools/IO's. Common damage types that give troubles can be negated through defense bonuses. Endurance costs via smart slotting and/or IO's. Endurance drains are far less potent against dark armor.

What starts as a strong set that can heal itself to full, reduce damage, shrug of psychic damage, and incapacitate foes can become a beast that can heal itself to full, take even less damage, still incapacitate foes, shrug off psychic damage, and avoid the attacks that might get through all of those layers.

My advice is to not think of a Dark Armor tank as a 'tank'. Think of it as a Melee Controller. Most of your mitigation is not from your armors, it is from debuffing and status effects on the enemies around you.

This is easiest to achieve with a secondary that has reliable mitigation in its attacks -- /Ice, /Dark, /Axe, /Mace, or /Stone. (I probably forgot one or two.) /Fire is not one of those secondaries. There's nothing wrong with a Dark/Fire tank, it's just not as controller-ish as other Darks.

The purpose of Dark Armor (and all armors, really) is to reach what Arcanaville called the 'Immortality Line', where the damage coming in is not enough to balance the healing you get off of Dark Regen and your natural healing. Once you hit that point, Dark Armor is the best ever, anywhere, period, because by definition It Cannot Die. But it takes some effort to reach the Immortality Line.

Tough gets you near the S/L hardcap, and a Cardiac boost and/or some IO slotting will cap you. Kinetic Shield and the Wedding Ring will give you super-tanking powers for short periods of time. Grab all the +endurance and +recovery IOs you can find -- Numina's, Miracle, Performance Shifter, Theft of Essence -- you will need them. I've heard good things about the Stupefy: Chance for Knockdown IO in Oppressive Gloom, but I haven't tried it yet myself.

And aside from all that, you have to be patient. Dark/* will take a while to mature, and it will cost a lot in IOs to make into a real monster tanker. I think it's worth the trip, but it's not an easy road.

@Remus: I think you're misquoting Arcanaville there. Everyone has an "immortality line", even the level 1 blaster. It's the amount of incoming damage (before applying mitigation) that will eventually kill you. The goal is to get your immortality line as high as possible. Arcanaville also looked at 30-second, 60-second, and 180-second survival times, which are noticeably higher for most armor sets as dropping a player from full to zero in 30 seconds takes a lot of damage. But for Dark Armor, it isn't. 30-second survival is the same as the immortality line, since Dark Regeneration is back up (if you can manage the cost, which takes a bit of work but is very doable) and it will heal you to full.

I'd agree with Seldom's approach - Dark has some glaring weaknesses to common problems combined with solutions to some very esoteric problems. Pools and IOs are able to solve those common problems fairly easily, while the IO sets and pool powers that fix the corner cases (Psi, toxic, endurance drain, -Perception, etc) are fewer and not as effective. So for similar investment, Dark Armor gives higher returns, though it's some time before Dark makes up for lagging behind in some other areas (Energy damage, knockback, endurance consumption etc).