Overall I really like this theme, a game within the game which the artists can do easily or really jump into whole hog...
But I did pm you one suggestion, cause I always have an opinion 
Yeah another long breakdown... what can ya do? 
It's not merely pointing out the issues I see but there is a potential solution offered at the end.
Let me first say this sounds like a very interesting and challenging theme/month Bubba. Good work coming up with something new.
Also your rules are a lot more thorough now and take into account more contingencies.
Couple things I wonder about though in regards to audience participation.
I've left a half dozen easter eggs in my pieces and as far as I know no one has spotted any of them (not seen a post or gotten a PM) yet... I didn't think them that hard to find but maybe no one was really trying. 
So what happens then if no one really takes the time to try and find your secret?
Also 25% of what? voters? people who happen to guess? The less interest in a piece the harder to meet the burden of more than 2 but less than 25%.
i.e. if 20 people guess at mine between 2-5 getting it correct wins 2pts. But say another contestant only got 8 guesses he would have to get exactly two people to guess correctly.
Many people will not tell you if they cannot guess what something is they will remain silent thereby reducing the number of guessers.
Once someone posts what it is won't everyone know it? If you are going to ask people to PM you guesses how do you know they haven't spoken to each other. One figures it out and tells a friend now there are two correct guesses.
An artist could simply make it impossibly obscure and then tell two friends the correct answer and presto maximum points.
****note: I am not suggesting anyone here would do these things just that they are possibilities****
Putting aside modesty for the moment, I can honestly say I am exceptionally good at spotting hidden things in art/text/advertising. It would be right up my alley if the points were earned by spotting others but obscuring my own but in this scenario I could be potentially giving my fellow competitors points by doing so. It would actually be in my best interest to stay silent even if I spot the message in all the entries.
These are a couple of the issues I see possible but having said that I think I know a solution that addresses them all.
Ask for volunteers to PM you. Choose a fixed number of guessers but do not disclose how many there are.
Don't tell the artists who has been chosen and don't even tell the ones chosen who their fellow guessers are.
The day before the reveal of all pieces send all guessers a PM with each of the images submitted and give them a certain amount of time.
Each guesser must give a guess for each of the pieces or say they have no clue.
Tabulate the results and award the points respectively.
It's not perfect but it would ensure that each guesser will not be influenced by the others (they don't know who they are) or by the public either as the public won't have seen any of the pieces yet (and so cannot accidentally blurt out an answer). It also ensures each Artist gets the same number of guessers at the same skill level trying to find the message in each of their pieces so it's a level playing field in that regard too. Finally if anyone was trying to purposely help/hinder a particular contestant they wouldn't know if to guess correctly or not say anything (assuming they solved the puzzle) because they don't know who else is guessing or how many figured it out already.
This seems like a lot of busy work but it's the best solution I can come up with, given the parameters, at the moment.
Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?
I agree, the concept of a "challenging puzzle" is tough to measure, and I trust Bubbawheat to come up with a way to measure that. 25% is good conceptually; in practice perhaps it could mean the puzzles that get figured out last (but do get figured out) once the pictures are posted.
Thinking a bit more - perhaps voters could simply be encouraged to think about the puzzle-ness of a puzzle picture when casting their votes. Perhaps even focus less on 'hot chicks' that seems to dominate scoring on these things. I'm looking at Lousy Day's skimpy loincloth. If I'd only been pandering to my audience...
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
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Quote:
Two thoughts. |
Originally Posted by airhead
I do not think that means what you think that means.
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#1. Love that you are quoting Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride (although the actual quote is "I do not think it means what you think it means").
#2. It means precisely what I take it to mean. Modesty can be loosely defined as having a humble opinion of one's self. Were I to put that aside for the moment (in other words were I to NOT be modest) I could honestly state, what I believe to be, one of my greatest areas of proficiency. That being pattern recognition.
It would be difficult to make such a claim of excellence while attempting even a modicum of modesty.
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Originally Posted by airhead
I agree, the concept of a "challenging puzzle" is tough to measure, and I trust Bubbawheat will come up with a way to measure that. 25% is good conceptually; in practice perhaps it could mean the puzzles that get figured out last (but do get figured out) once the pictures are posted.
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Also basing point awards on a fixed percentage of a variable number can introduce fractions. Without a fixed number (equal for every artist) you could conceivably find yourself hoping that no more than 6½ people figure your puzzle out.
I am not saying I don't trust Bubba to figure something out (I'm actually hoping he already has) but trying to point out what I see as not feasible/workable and suggest what I think might be.
If he has something already planned great, if not, I've given one possible suggestion (and by all means please do point out any flaws in it that you see) for people to refine or disregard if a better solution can be found.
Thanks for the feedback. Here's my way of looking at it for the moment:
1. The "spirit" of the bonus points is to challenge each artist to make their secret message challenging but not impossible.
2. While this is a competition, it's also for fun, and I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt for the purposes of "gaming the system" I haven't really seen it happening. Even the couple cases where it might have been happening, the situation was remedied one way or another.
3. At the end of the day, it's just 1 point out of an average of 16-17 being given out per month. Also the points don't have a direct impact on eliminations. I fully expect that almost everyone will get 1 bonus point this month.
4. This is also a way to make it more fun for the voters. Every voter will be allowed to take a guess on every piece. It's up to the individual how much they want to play along, or if they want to scroll down and try to cheat off of other's guesses.
This isn't intended to shut down discussion of the rules entirely. I'm still willing to listen to what others say about it.
edit: just to check, this month, there were 26 voters. While every voter might not guess for every piece, I think many will, so let's say there's an average of about 16 guesses per piece. 25% would be 4, so between 2-4 would fall within the guideline. One other possibility I could see working though is to give the extra point to the last one correctly guessed based on posting order. And if say the first person guesses them all correctly, then no one gets the 2nd point.
Quote:
That's why I deleted my comment half an hour before your reply. 'That' referred to the concept of your having just a moment of un-modesty (avoiding the word 'immodesty') and not 'it', the subject, of modesty... and then I realised I was much funnier if I didn't say anything.|
Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
#1. etc #2. etc |
Instead I should be saying thanks for spotting my missed February points CR! After two submissions I see the more time I spend on a piece, the less points I get. So I'm aiming for zero in March, despite submitting!
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
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You're welcome Airhead.
As a sidenote, VexXxa kindly set up a folder for us to use again this year in the deviantArt group #CityOfHeroes. There's currently a bit of a glitch so you can't submit directly to the F-Art 2011 folder, but you should be able to submit your Jan and Feb entries (including Tartyr's late Feb entry if he so chooses) to an appropriate folder and I will get it moved over there as soon as I can.
And of course, just a reminder to not post any full-view March entries there until after the 21st.
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I...really take issue with this, I have to say. So, people who have more points, in a 'competition' with no official judges, can get ever more of a lead on those doing not so well?|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
10. Uses for points: These may be adjusted slightly before June:
15 points: Head Start - find out the next month's theme in advance. 25 points: A Little More Time - Allows an entry to be submitted and/or modified up to 2 days after the deadline. No adjustments will be made for any votes already cast if applicable. 30 points: Overruled! - If your piece is judged as not being within theme, you can overrule the judgement and have your piece placed in the voting thread anyway (This cannot overrule rules #1 or #2) 40 points: Immunity - Grants you immunity from elimination for that month - must be declared before voting begins, and can be declared in private. The top 3 based on votes cannot be eliminated due to a large number of immunity buys. 70 points: Saved - Also grants you immunity from elimination for that month but can be declared after voting is over. You can also declare it before voting begins to avoid elimination due to non-entry. |
Sorry, but that just sits really ill with me. I don't recall the Art Battle last year having this, so why suddenly make the exception now?
As it is, I'm struggling with RL and Uni work, meaning my submissions might not be up to the standard I'd ideally like. If I'm then getting penalised more by lack of points to make use of 'the shinies', then I might as well just back out all together.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Quote:
In all the previous years, the winner of each month was granted immunity for the next month. I wanted to do something a little more different. As long as you participate each month, even if you placed last every time, you would start the month of June with around 65 points which is almost enough for the highest valued option. I'm also offering bonus points each month that can be earned by anyone. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I...really take issue with this, I have to say. So, people who have more points, in a 'competition' with no official judges, can get ever more of a lead on those doing not so well?
Sorry, but that just sits really ill with me. I don't recall the Art Battle last year having this, so why suddenly make the exception now? As it is, I'm struggling with RL and Uni work, meaning my submissions might not be up to the standard I'd ideally like. If I'm then getting penalised more by lack of points to make use of 'the shinies', then I might as well just back out all together. |
By doing this, everyone has the option of using their points on the small perks, or saving them for the big perks. If you are doing well, yes you could have the option of using both, which is why I tried to have the smaller point valued items be relatively small bonuses. Like "A little more time" would allow you a couple more days, but you would potentially lose votes if the voting thread goes up before the piece is done. "Overruled" would allow you to submit something off-theme, but having an off-theme piece would also probably effect your votes negatively for those people who vote on which piece best fits the theme.
If you think any of the point values should be more or less than what they are, I'd be glad to hear it. To give out a few numbers for someone who participated every month: The minimum number of points is 60. The average number of points is about 80. The maximum number of points (excluding bonus points) is 100.
There's a couple reasons why I wanted to keep this competition going for this year. To give the forums more art, and to allow artists to challenge themselves. They're challenged each month with a theme and a deadline. I added the points to try and make it more fun. Instead of just awarding immunity to the winner each month, every participant has the option to increase their chances in whichever ways they decide. Those in the lead have more options, but that doesn't change how people vote, and when it comes time for the voting, everyone's in the same boat. If you don't like the points system, feel free to ignore them, ensuring you'll have enough points to use the "saved" option if you ever need it - which reminds me one of the other reasons why I put that in, I understand that some months are busier than others, and this allows you a freebie later in the year if you are so busy that you have to miss a month.
As with most new game designers, you've forgotten the importance of K.I.S.S. By adding more rules, you've drastically increased the entropy in the system and the opportunity for people to find fault in it.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
*cheers happily* I've finished my piece for the March FArt Battle! That was exhausting!
*waves*
DeeDee
CoH Fan-Art Sale still several slots open!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
gah, well done DD, not even started mine yet. To be honest i've no clue how to do this 'secret message' theme, plus i've just got no time at the moment, not looking good :/
Thanks Henri. I thought this to be a very hard one too... but 2 nights ago I suddenly had an idea... So yesterday at 9 ish in the morning I started drawing... then scanning, colouring, editing and editing and editing...and just finished it at 16.15 today (european time ) Yes, I did sleep and eat and watched a few episodes of Bones in the mean time .
I thought about putting up a "teaser" but I changed my mind. (So Bubba, no need to answer that question ).
Hang in there Henri! It will come to you!
*waves*
DeeDee
CoH Fan-Art Sale still several slots open!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Quote:
Allow me to play devils advocate for a moment TBA. The vote leader in the past always had an advantage (immunity) but no choice of when to use it.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
.............................As it is, I'm struggling with RL and Uni work, meaning my submissions might not be up to the standard I'd ideally like. If I'm then getting penalised more by lack of points to make use of 'the shinies', then I might as well just back out all together.
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Everyone else had nothing.
Now under Bubba's system everyone gets access to some advantages and everyone gets a choice of when and how to use them. I'm not saying I agree with the system 100% as it is but if the above quoted bits correctly reflect your situation and you envision that you are not going to be leading the votes (due to RL time constraints etc) then shouldn't you actually prefer the new system? You have advantages and a choice whereas under the previous system if you aren't in the lead you've got nothing.
You are actually getting penalized less because you are guaranteed to have enough points to save yourself in a couple ways whereas before (the first time you missed the deadline for submission or got the least amount of points) you would just be out of the contest. How can you get penalized more than that?
Am I misunderstanding something?
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Originally Posted by DarthDelicious
*cheers happily* I've finished my piece for the March FArt Battle! That was exhausting!
*waves* DeeDee |
Quote:
And it looks great too. I went ahead and put a little more "tease" in the teaser you had in mind, and here it is:|
Originally Posted by DarthDelicious
*cheers happily* I've finished my piece for the March FArt Battle! That was exhausting!
*waves* DeeDee |
Thanks Bubbawheat!
I'm quite curious what people came up with for this month ^^.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
Wow gratz DD I also have yet to start mine (though I do have a good idea I am in the usual position of wondering if I can effectively pull it off or not).
Ah yes... there's always the question of being able to pull off an idea...
I know all about that!
Having a great idea..and putting it to life are two complete different things.
But...the month hasn't passed just yet .
Though, knowing you...I bet you'll pull it off even beyond your own expectations .
Which btw is the best way to do it if you ask me! It gives the ego a huge rush *looks delighted* .. hey.. atleast I don't smoke!... or drink... or do drugs.. let me have this at least!
*waves*
DeeDee
CoH Fan-Art Sale still several slots open!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Quote:
Lol we'll see. |
Originally Posted by DarthDelicious
...................Having a great idea..and putting it to life are two complete different things.
But...the month hasn't passed just yet .Though, knowing you...I bet you'll pull it off even beyond your own expectations .................... |
I'm off to a good start surprising myself this year already.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DarthDelicious
......................hey... at least I don't smoke!... or drink... or do drugs.. let me have this at least!
*waves* DeeDee |
I don't smoke, drink or take any kind of drugs either.
...wait does steak count? I do love a good steak.
Quote:
haha you too ! |
Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
Congratulations!
I don't smoke, drink or take any kind of drugs either. ...wait does steak count? I do love a good steak. |
About the steak... Well.. let's see... you're a **** sapien... which means you're an omnivore...which means you are aloud.. hell.. it's your nature to eat about anything that's eatable.. including steak! Sooooo..... Nope! That doesn't count!
.Edit: Hmm... seems like a sertain word is not aloud.. homosapien then (which is misspelled though)?
CoH Fan-Art Sale still several slots open!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Yeah you had it right the first time the genus and species are two separate words but the former is being bleeped by the curse filter
because it's also a derogatory slang term for gay (which used to just mean happy) in this country... etymology is funny like that sometimes. 
No worries, I understand what you meant to say.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
Yeah you had it right the first time the genus and species are two separate words but the former is being bleeped by the curse filter
because it's also a derogatory slang term for gay (which used to just mean happy) in this country... etymology is funny like that sometimes. No worries, I understand what you meant to say. |
In my dictionairy gay still means happy... The slang language is all wrong! *waves fist*
CoH Fan-Art Sale still several slots open!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Read my in-game stories and check out my DeviantART page.
- coXso - It was a memorable time filled with art!
Only one more day to get your early bird entries in!
And the next entry is from Henri, here's the teaser - cropped and slightly edited by me.
And PS Henri, the only clues to go on are in the piece itself (including the title if applicable) though I did decipher it myself before reading the entire explanation.
I'mma backin' out I'm afraid, certainly for this month.
*Alert! Red Spy is in the Base!*
Uni's sappin mah creativiteh!
I may well drop in to pick up any theme I like the look of, though
Best of luck to those still in the running!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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After being taken through fire and ice, and with plenty of drama to boot, it's time to quiet things down and send out a secret message.
March's Theme is Secret Messages
Rules
All types of visual art are acceptable for this month's theme. Screenshot manipulations, sketches, graphic design, etc. So long as they incorporate this month's theme into the work. See #4 for more details.
1. Use City of Heroes/Villains Characters- This is, afterall, a CoX Fan Art competition, so I expect you guys to keep that in mind. If there's nothing relating to City of Heroes/Villains in your entry, you will be disqualified.
2. Keep It PG-13- All entries this month must be postable to these boards without a 2 click.
3. Deadlines- All entries MUST be submitted by Monday March 28th by Midnight Eastern US time. Anyone participating who DOES NOT have an active account on these boards may note me via deviantArt at Bubbawheat. Voting will begin by Tuesday, March 29th, held here on the CoH boards. The pieces that I put up for a vote have been personally verified by me, so if you disagree with their qualifications, please take it up with me rather than the artists.
4. This month's theme is Secret Messages, and to qualify for this theme, your entry must include a secret message. You can create this secret message any way you see fit, whether it is a rebus, small print hidden in the details, body shapes that suggest a hidden picture, even something involving the title of the piece.
5. Secret submissions - to get into the spirit of this month's theme, I ask that you do not submit your full piece until after March 21st. You may post a teaser here in this thread that does not include any part of the message. You can then send me the full image by e-mail (my screen name @ msn.com), or PM me a link to an image hosting site (not deviantArt, as most people here frequent that site). Include what the secret message and how to find it in your message to me. I can also create your teaser image for you if you ask when submitting your full piece to me.
6. This is the last month for open submissions. Anyone is still allowed to enter.
7. There will be no eliminations until June. Each month artists will accumulate points that will be used to help avoid elimination, or grant other benefits. There will be one chance for one artist to win their way in (or back) to the contest in August.
8. Points- Entry points: Artists gain 10 points each month where they submit a piece. Any artist not submitting a piece will be disqualified.
Early bird points: Artists gain an additional 2 points each month where they submit a "finished" piece before the 15th of the month - for this month, the finished piece should be submitted to me via PM or e-mail to qualify for the early bird points. Finished pieces can still be modified, but any major additions after the 15th will negate the early bird points. Major additions include adding color, or adding an elaborate background.
Place points: After voting, each artist will gain points based on how they place in the final standings. 1st place gains 10 points (plus 2 bonus points for winning), 2nd gains 9, 3rd gains 8, etc. Ties each gain the amount of points for that place. Places after 10th gain 0 points.
Bonus points: If voters are correctly able to interpret your secret message, you get 1 point (total, not per person). If at least 2 people, and less than 25% of people correctly guess the message, you get 2 points. This does not stack with the 1 point for correctly guessing this message. In other words, you get an extra point if you make it hard enough that most people can't find it, but not so hard that nobody finds it.
9. Prizes- The artist with the most votes each month will receive 10 million inf sent to them through in game E-mail. The overall winner of the year will receive 50 million. Thanks to Draggynn for his donation to the prize fund.
10. Uses for points: These may be adjusted slightly before June:
15 points: Head Start - find out the next month's theme in advance.
25 points: A Little More Time - Allows an entry to be submitted and/or modified up to 2 days after the deadline. No adjustments will be made for any votes already cast if applicable.
30 points: Overruled! - If your piece is judged as not being within theme, you can overrule the judgement and have your piece placed in the voting thread anyway (This cannot overrule rules #1 or #2)
40 points: Immunity - Grants you immunity from elimination for that month - must be declared before voting begins, and can be declared in private. The top 3 based on votes cannot be eliminated due to a large number of immunity buys.
70 points: Saved - Also grants you immunity from elimination for that month but can be declared after voting is over. You can also declare it before voting begins to avoid elimination due to non-entry.