http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=252688
hopefully it will give you some ideas.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
If you still have missions available from an outleveled contact they're probably part of a story arc. Story arc missions will spawn enemies at the maximum level for that arc (or the maximum level for a given enemy, if lower) so if it's a level 1-10 arc you'll probably get level 10 enemies. Normally contacts will not give missions once you have outleveled them unless you are in the middle of a story arc. Some contacts / missions don't have a max level (like the Midnighter arcs or cape missions) but the "normal" ones do. It can be a good idea to clear outleveled story arcs though, because you have a limit on how many arcs you can have ongoing at once and if you hit it (used to be 2 arcs but may be more now) you can't get new story arcs.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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Just checked combat attributes yesterday, I'm at 53% s/l if my bots bubble me. I'm pretty sure I'm at the cap, which is why I love s/l AVs |
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Joe, whats your total def when you play? I can't see how my Herobuilder is reading things right. 81% def to S/L? I know the bots buff you but I didnt think thats countable. I was looking at your build and comparing it to mine, Your pets have better def but you shouldn't. Other than that you got better rechg and slightly more damage.
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The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
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Just as a note, personal attacks can be a significant fraction of your damage until the Tier 3 bot comes along, so its not a terrible idea to take one (assuming you don't have vet attacks) and respec out of it later when you have the slots to slot up Triage properly. The idea behind Provoke is to focus damage from EBs and especially AVs on you, since you can be well shielded, thus keeping your pets alive. Its more something to take for soloing AVs or GMs, which is interesting as a build test but not terribly worthwhile XP-wise. |
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
personal attacks, provoke and so on. worthless.
P.S. your drones will die anyway, regardless of what you do. stupid AI cause them to run in to melee range, so get used to it. at least they die less then arsonist from thugs or medic from mercs. |
If you spam "Stay" it can help keep the pets from running in, or at least they don't run in very far before you halt them. If they are still in stay/defensive, they still provide Bodyguard mode.
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compared to what you can achieve with secondary skills personal attacks are waste of slots and respecs. i haven't seen a single mm that didn't won a mission because of the lacking of personal attacks. BUT i've seen a lot mms dead because they drew agro by personal attacks and were killed with one-two shots. AND i've seen a lot of mms, that dumped their endurance in to firing pitiful shots and have let half of the team die.|
Originally Posted by Scientist
Just as a note, personal attacks can be a significant fraction of your damage until the Tier 3 bot comes along, so its not a terrible idea to take one (assuming you don't have vet attacks) and respec out of it later when you have the slots to slot up Triage properly.
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personal attacks are a NO GO!!! never ever, under no circumstances they are or will be useful.
mm is a commander/supporter archetype. to learn to be a superior buffer/debuffer is much more then to learn to be a bad gimped shadow of a blaster.
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Originally Posted by Scientist
The idea behind Provoke is to focus damage from EBs and especially AVs on you, since you can be well shielded, thus keeping your pets alive.
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Originally Posted by Scientist
Its more something to take for soloing AVs or GMs, which is interesting as a build test but not terribly worthwhile XP-wise.
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Originally Posted by Scientist
If you spam "Stay" it can help keep the pets from running in, or at least they don't run in very far before you halt them. If they are still in stay/defensive, they still provide Bodyguard mode.
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so either preventing the mob from doing damage or gambling with luck who will be longer enduring the damage.
first is the "true-traps-way", second is for force fields.
to state it clearly, if the bots die than that should be only because caltrops, poison gas trap and seeker drones are still on cooldown from previous fight.
1. AVs are worth alot of xp, so if you can kill one in 10 minutes it is well worth it. GMs not so much.
2. kalashnikow, how are you keeping agg on you and not your bots, especially the *** bot, without personal attacks or provoke?
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Or they chase a foe into another mob so they can hit it with brawl. Or they decided to brawl an AV with a mega aoe attack.
| to state it clearly, if the bots die than that should be only because caltrops, poison gas trap and seeker drones are still on cooldown from previous fight. |
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
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I wasn't saying that taking personal attacks makes a superior MM, just that it can speed things up a bit at low levels, since bots don't have a huge damage output at those levels compared to some other pets. I wouldn't recommend it unless you plan to respec anyway, or if you are mostly going to team. |
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
compared to what you can achieve with secondary skills personal attacks are waste of slots and respecs. i haven't seen a single mm that didn't won a mission because of the lacking of personal attacks. BUT i've seen a lot mms dead because they drew agro by personal attacks and were killed with one-two shots.
[snip] i've killed bunch of AV and even tanked 3 super robots on first mission of apex tf. without provoke. is it surprising you? [snip] to state it clearly, if the bots die than that should be only because caltrops, poison gas trap and seeker drones are still on cooldown from previous fight. |
I've also killed a number of AVs without Provoke, a good bots/traps can do it on SOs, so I"m not at all surprised, its arguably the best combo in the game for that (though a very good case can be made for Ill/Rad controllers). There were definitely cases where it would have been easier with Provoke, as I couldn't keep the AVs from launching ranged or AoE attacks at the bots once in awhile. I've never taken it, since as you say against normal spawns the rest of the traps toolkit pretty much keeps either you or your bots from getting scratched.
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I was going to say you must be running with SOs or on a semi IO build with some of the comments your saying. Because without a doubt IOs can crush SOs when slotted properly. IO set bonuses just give you too many things that SOs cannot. |
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
no worries, some day i'll be killing AV alone.
some of my comments: personal attacks, provoke and so on. worthless. seriously. traps is all about mitigation of agro, not building it. toss 2 patches of caltrops and watch them running in wain. and btw, check the numbers of damage a caltrop patch can do, especially with damage procs, thats a nuke quantity. way more your personal attacks can do. so tackle/slow them with web grenades/web envelope, toss caltrop patch after. thats the proper way to prevent your bots from being smashed in to smithereens. thats the way of traps. full tactics buff line is strongly recommended. scorpion shield with +def, web envelope and web cocoon are MUST HAVE powers. my bot/traps mm has about 50% defense on smashing/lethal WITHOUT tough/weave, only with tactics. tripmine - is meeehhh. stand your ground and repel of anything incoming is WAY better then running after enemy and hoping for being NOT interrupted. 3/4 of time you will loose your bet. only exception of the rule is poison gas trap, -reg is the best in game available AV killer, no kidding. normal rotation is: start all the tactics, seeker drones from maximum distance, web envelope+web grenade on boss, caltrop patch. spawn is dead. may be you need to refresh the web grenade on boss, depends on how tough he is. big groups, elite bosses or AVs - acid mortar + poison trap to kill them faster. P.S. your drones will die anyway, regardless of what you do. stupid AI cause them to run in to melee range, so get used to it. at least they die less then arsonist from thugs or medic from mercs. |
But then it dawned on me, your verbiage sounded familiar to me.
I remember you.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...66#post2963666
Provoke isn't useless. Web isn't a must. Though if your running on SOs then I can see your point. Your not capped so getting aggro would be doom for you. I can also see why getting Scorp shield would be important.
Spawn isn't dead in those few moments you mentioned. Unless your running -1/1 or fighting green or gray con mobs. It just really takes a few attacks from your pets unless your helping out with Trip mine.
I would just take what this guy is saying with a grain of salt.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I figure the Knockdown proc in Caltrops would help with mitigation. However, if you use Electrifying Fences (to stop knockback from Assault Bot and Trip Mine), does this also stop knockdown (thereby making the proc in caltrops useless)? Just wondering.
Thanks
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
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If they've got sub-par builds and are leaving their pets in aggressive mode, sure. With my bots/traps, I've got 41% resistance to S/L/E and I'm softcapped to all positions and most types. With my bots in bodyguard mode and Triage Beacon out, I've got more resistance than a stone tank in Granite, better defenses than a forcefielder, and regen to rival that of a Regen scrapper, but only if the attacks are focused on me.
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
compared to what you can achieve with secondary skills personal attacks are waste of slots and respecs. i haven't seen a single mm that didn't won a mission because of the lacking of personal attacks. BUT i've seen a lot mms dead because they drew agro by personal attacks and were killed with one-two shots.
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Katie, |
Originally Posted by Katie V
If they've got sub-par builds and are leaving their pets in aggressive mode, sure. With my bots/traps, I've got 41% resistance to S/L/E and I'm softcapped to all positions and most types. With my bots in bodyguard mode and Triage Beacon out, I've got more resistance than a stone tank in Granite, better defenses than a forcefielder, and regen to rival that of a Regen scrapper, but only if the attacks are focused on me.
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This is a bit cryptic to me. Are you saying that you take personal attacks for the MM (which may be from the primary and/or PPP) to draw aggro on yourself, or just that you run in BG mode? (or both?)
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
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Yes, both. It's a deliberate strategy because of the way damage is shared. First, the attacks have to hit you through your Defense. Then the damage gets reduced by your Resistance. Then the damage gets reduced further as it's spread out to your pets within Supremacy range (2 shares for you, 1 share for each of your pets, which means the damage you take is reduced to 25% of the post-Resistance total if all of your pets are out and in range).|
Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Katie,
This is a bit cryptic to me. Are you saying that you take personal attacks for the MM (which may be from the primary and/or PPP) to draw aggro on yourself, or just that you run in BG mode? (or both?) MT |
The upshot is: personal attacks and Provoke are great, at least as long as you've been building for Defense and/or Resistance, stay near your pets in bodyguard mode and don't order them to focus-fire on an enemy (since that drops BG mode for a while; with Bots/Traps I'd edit your focus-fire macro to only send in the Drones & Assault Bot so that the Protectors stay on Defensive/Follow and you get a 50% reduction to damage)
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I suspect that the OP is saying they draw aggro onto themselves via using a "Taunt" power from the Challenge Pool, and leave their henchmen in bodyguard mode. Combined with the mitigation from defence/resistance/regen this enables MMs to effectively Tank an AV. |
Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Katie,
This is a bit cryptic to me. Are you saying that you take personal attacks for the MM (which may be from the primary and/or PPP) to draw aggro on yourself, or just that you run in BG mode? (or both?) MT |
This would be the standard Single-Target soloing Tactic used by "Tankermind" builds, which usually works wonders (barring any interference from the current stupid, stupid ignore-follow-or-goto-orders-and-run-into-melee-PBAoE-attack-range-of-my-target pet AI)
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Maybe I was a little unclear too haha. I completely understand defensive mode, BG, etc. I am softcapped to all but Psi in my build and use the MM commands, etc. |
Originally Posted by MaelwysAlts
I suspect that the OP is saying they draw aggro onto themselves via using a "Taunt" power from the Challenge Pool, and leave their henchmen in bodyguard mode. Combined with the mitigation from defence/resistance/regen this enables MMs to effectively Tank an AV.
This would be the standard Single-Target soloing Tactic used by "Tankermind" builds, which usually works wonders (barring any interference from the current stupid, stupid ignore-follow-or-goto-orders-and-run-into-melee-PBAoE-attack-range-of-my-target pet AI) |
I was wondering for Katie specifically whether she was using JUST attacks (perhaps the AoE attack from the Mu PPP), or JUST Provoke? Or both? I guess I was asking more on a playstyle/"attack chain" and not so much the concept behind it (which I completely understand and use myself currently)
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
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I can say this you cannot do enough damage alone to take aggro away from your pets on a consistent basis, you need Provoke. Luckily Traps has enough that it will help you do this with Provoke. But other sets you really should take some sort of attack from one of the PPP or AP sets, EG fireball to help build up that aggro. As an example I have the holds from Soul mastery. But I am thinking of going back to Fireball. Though the hold and immobilize is nice, there is something about fireball and bonfire which is really great.
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Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Maybe I was a little unclear too haha. I completely understand defensive mode, BG, etc. I am softcapped to all but Psi in my build and use the MM commands, etc.
I was wondering for Katie specifically whether she was using JUST attacks (perhaps the AoE attack from the Mu PPP), or JUST Provoke? Or both? I guess I was asking more on a playstyle/"attack chain" and not so much the concept behind it (which I completely understand and use myself currently) MT |
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Both. Provoke is nice for drawing aggro, but sometimes you need to apply damage or debuffs to magnify your threat level, and sometimes you need to draw aggro from multiple places at once.|
Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Katie,
This is a bit cryptic to me. Are you saying that you take personal attacks for the MM (which may be from the primary and/or PPP) to draw aggro on yourself, or just that you run in BG mode? (or both?) |
(And sometimes you just need to get that half-dead minion out of your hair, while the bots are busy elsewhere.)
Thanks, for some reason though, it won't load for me? I've searched in on Google too and still won't load. I'll try again later, maybe they're having some type of maintenance at this time?
For the contacts, I can still see contacts from mercy island. If I were to do these, will they scale to my level? Can I do them through Ouroboros and get new contacts that way? But I'd rather not do them through that cause I'll lose some of my skills.
Thanks again, you guys are very very helpful. Currently lvl 34 as of last night. I was surprised. I thought I would get a new power but I got another 3 slots instead, which isn't really bad.