'Fantastic Four' death: Human Torch dies

I would agree, except for the fact that Marvel has been issuing wide-scale press releases to all the major news organization before this issue hit the stands.

Money > plot security/reader enjoyment.

((Exactly.

I'd also like to add that if you want to see a *really* well-written comic book, check out Morning Glories from Image Comics. ))

Yes, Morning Glories is flippin' excellent. I've been nerding out pretty hard on that and Hack/Slash lately. I'm looking forward to checking out Twilight Guardian too when my comic shop gets more copies in.

See, the thing is most mainstream comic book readers do enjoy this stuff. They enjoyed Jeph Loeb's run on Hulk too. If you could sit everyone on this thread down in a room and asked those who actually buy comics on a regular basis to raise their hands, you'd probably have a substantial number with their hands down. Then ask anyone who has actually seriously considered even looking at a Fantastic Four comic recently to raise their hands. Odds are you'll only get a couple hands up. People who actually enjoy where comics are going don't usually read threads like this because they know it's going to be all negative.

((When you go to comic cons and hit the question/answer panels with DC and Marvel, you'll get a general consensus around the room that big event crossovers and big event death storylines are not appreciated by the fans in attendance. And if you go over to CBR and read the interviews with comic shop owners, they all agree that while this issue sold well, it wasn't their regular readers who were buying it -- it was people who read about it in the general media and came in to buy this "historic" issue. The shop owners even say outright that these things don't really bring in new readers, that they probably won't see all these new people come back for next month's issue, and furthermore that these people didn't buy other comics while visiting their shops. Obviously, the only winner in this promotion is the promoter -- Marvel. They upped the sales for FF substantially for one month and made a lot of money.

I think most comic readers have severely lowered expectations these days. DC and especially Marvel are working to make their titles more friendly to adaptation to other media formats such as movies and television. It's why costumes are less colorful and capes are no longer in vogue. In the process, we're losing what makes superhero comic books special -- a sense of fun and wonder. Personally? If both Marvel and DC stopped publishing altogether, I think it would be good for the genre. It would let someone else define what a superhero is without fifty years of heavy baggage to drag behind them.

See, I don't buy into any of that. It's certainly not true at either of the comic shops I frequent, and with regards to event crossovers (not sure about death issues) everything I've read and heard suggests the opposite: the core readers eat them up and lose interest without them, while newer readers find them inpenetrable. Marvel's even said outright that they're going back to big event crossovers because while they were laying off of them this year DC and Dark Horse ate into Marvel's market dominance. Meanwhile, they're keeping the first arc of the new Thor series separate from their upcoming Fear Itself event exactly because they want new readers who like the movie to buy it and not be put off by a big crossover. Fans claim they don't like the big crossovers, but fans also talk a lot of bollocks. When it comes down to it, they buy the books. They've been complaining about event fatigue for years, but events still sell and books that aren't tied to events don't.

As for death issues, you may be right about them attracting some new or irregular readers, I couldn't say one way or another. They certainly don't put off existing readers, though. Captain America's death and the stories coming out of that got good reviews and are well-loved by Cap fans, and the same can be said of Dick Grayson's tenure as Batman (Bruce's death not so much, but that likely had a lot to do with him getting two totally different death scenes). Certainly both Captain America and the Batman books do very well at comic shops. When Thor returned from the dead his book did extremely well over time, and Marvel's confident enough to launch a new ongoing around Loki's recent reincarnation. Meanwhile, where is continuity-free, no-event-having Thor: The Mighty Avenger? Cancelled. Didn't sell well enough despite critical acclaim. The same with Nextwave, Agents of Atlas, Manhunter, Simon Dark, The Order, and god knows how many other really good books that were a couple hundred people's favorite books and weren't read at all by anyone else.

Marvel's even come right out many times and said "If you don't like the books, don't buy them. If they don't make money we'll try something else". They keep making money, not just in one month but over the course of months. They'd be cancelled if they didn't. Instead we have something like 8 or 9 Batman books and so far they all appear to be selling better than Scalped. It's a shame IMO, but people like what they like and they let publishers know with their wallets.

I went over to my mother-in-law's house last night for dinner. Coincidentally, Wednesday is also "new comic" day at my comic book shop. (Yes, I picked up stuffs. )

Anyways, the local paper had a half-page spread on the death of Johnny Storm. Same day as the comic came out. I get that it was a slow news day...but a half-page spread on the death of Johnny Storm? He even got a headline.

Jean Grey = The Phoenix!

of course she'll be back! I'd think it a waste if she wasn't! That's the point of the Phoenix!

Now the excuses for the other non-immortals and what have you, no clue. But Jean Grey coming back from the dead should be a given!

According to this interview with Tom Brevoort, Marvel's not downsizing, they're going back to big events. He also has some interesting thoughts on how to get new readers into stores.

I can confirm this. They are ending here and starting a "related" FF title in several months.

Yeah, Image is kicking a$$ these days. They seem to be emphasizing publishing creator-owned work in general rather than focusing on books the Image partners created, which is a good thing IMO.

((I didn't see anything new in his ideas for getting new readers into stores. In fact, I didn't really see any solid ideas presented. And while he says they are still going to be doing big events, he also says it will be downsized from the House of M-Civil War-Invasion-Dark Reign one-after-another-crap that they did for most of the 2000's.

I've read comics for over 40 years, and I've seen a lot of trends come and go. But I can tell you this: the harder they make it for twelve or thirteen year old kids to access and understand their comics, whether because of content or because of the deadly weight of decades-long continuity that is no longer relevant, the more their audience is going to continue to shrink.

The best and most entertaining comics that Marvel puts out right now is their kids' line. And Ultimate Spider-Man, of course. And all of those have a relatively short history in their continuities.))

You just nailed exactly why I never got into DC comics. Even as an adult, I couldn't stand having to drop that kind of money to enjoy comics. When Marvel ran Civil War into World War Hulk and right into Secret Invasion, I started getting mad. When the art style had that fake watercolor look with all of the characters and scenery blending into each other, I wondered why I should keep reading.

Then Nightwing got sucked into the Death of Batman instead of being a really good standalone comic, Batman died newuniversal fell off schedule. I gave up. Ghost Rider, for the most part, did a great job of telling its own stories. Multi-part stories, sure, but in small batches of around 3-5 comics. That was about my limit.

And, yes, the Marvel Adventures are indeed great comics. I used to buy them for my kids and read them as bedtime stories.

If you'll pardon me going off topic for a moment, but... D'awwwww.

(( Ditto. ))