Are You A Gamer Addict or Gamer Hobbier

This, was thinking about writing something similar - if you live in a rural area and the only two places in town to meet and hang out with people are church or a bar, and you are an atheist who doesn't drink, you might have trouble getting those social interactions from in-person contact.

What is healthy for one person isn't necessarily the best choice for the next.

Only when MaH is playing you are.

Being a parent or otherwise, those are fair and rational conclusions.

Who are you, or the people you quote, to say what my social needs are? I am not a Rhesus monkey.

He is Tank Washington, Mr. Blue's biggest fan.

He hopes to one day take a long walk on the beach with him.

Or something...

I mean he does go out of his way to troll him........

Human beings are, by their very nature, social animals. While I do think that what those social needs are or how they are met can and do vary greatly, I would argue that human beings need social interaction to function healthily and happily.

I'd be interested in reading the full article if you have a link, Angie. While I don't neccessarily agree with the value judgement implicit in the starvation analogy, I do think the virtual/social interaction topic is interesting.

I think MMOs and online gaming are still a very new (and therefore scary :O) media and so there's a lot of overhyped scaremongering going on. Yes, it is scary that some kid can play for 72 hours straight and then die because they never ate, drank or went to the bathroom. I'd say thats more a failure of the parents than indication of evils of gaming.

The thing is, those stories never talk about the millions of gamers who just, you know, game. Who still eat, drink, socialise and function as human beings. It's not mentioned because its not interesting or newsworthy. Tonight at 11: everything going just as smoothly as yesterday, business as usual. That's not news, unfortunately.

Er, I went off on a bit of a tangent there. What it comes down to for me is that anything in excess can be bad for you. Game all day, drink all day, sleep all day, watch tv all day, whatever. I don't think there is anything about gaming which exempts it from being unhealthy in excess.

Regardless, I think its an interesting topic, just a shame that so much of the information and media out there seems to be scaremongering. It's certainly a topic worthy of discussion and so it was a little disappointing to see some of the dogpiling here.

^This

He is an RP'r and plays WoW. Am I wrong to say that there is a different level of immersion into the game? I do have some friends that play WoW who kind of take it to another level.

They are just using the subject as a worse case scenario, not as an example of the average gamer.

I can't say I disagree with anything stated in the article. It is good advice and it isn't stating that all gamers play to an unhealthy level or lack social interaction.

I don't RP, have no interest in it, and I still don't think it's fair to lump all RPers into a 'more prone to addiction' category just because they perceivably have a greater degree of immersion into the game. There's more to addiction than doing something repeatedly or doing it at a certain level.

As for the article, I find the bias to be overwhelming. After reading it, I'm still not convinced gaming was responsible for certain events in the subject's life. I won't deny the fact he could legitimately have a problem, but I just find the writing to be purposely vague such that certain assumptions are made by the reader. E.g. "He lost a girlfriend, in part, to excessive playing..."

The science aspect of the article is also extremely vague. E.g. "There's a neurochemistry - whether you're gambling, gaming or taking drugs - that is all the same." She then goes on to discuss dopamine. It is true that dopamine is involved in addiction, but that is not all it does in the body. It's not as if dopamine release always ends in addiction and we should be avoiding it. I think it's extreme to say that the neurochemistry between drug addiction and behavioural addiction is "all the same". If addiction really did occur through the exact same mechanism for both drugs and gaming, we should be able to apply the advice for gaming to drugs. E.g. do drugs in moderation to reduce your chance of addiction. Bottom line, there is a lot more to it than what she has described, and I feel her generalizations are misleading.

As for the 'expert' quoted in the article, she is an executive director of an internet addiction recovery program. I have to wonder if she's truly advocating for potential addicts or simply trying to plug her program. The concept of selling illness to people is one that bothers me. Mental health disorders are a lot more subjective than say, diabetes, making them more marketable to people who may not actually have the illness.

I do appreciate that the article promotes balance. As others have said, I also think that a balanced social life for one is not the same for another. I have friends that are constantly on their cell phones trying to make plans with people and it seems they are lost if they don't have a social schedule. Others are content with the occasional get together. I don't think anyone can prescribe the proper amount.

I don't have any experience with RP'ing so I wasn't sure if it was actually more addictive. I wouldn't say that the people who play RP games or WoW are more likely to be addicts than others or suffer from some social deficiency. I was more curious if the activity itself was more likely to bring out someones addictive tendencies. Is WoW truly a more addictive game or does it just have a higher rate due to a larger population. If there is a higher sense of immersion is it easier to lose yourself and neglect RL?


I didn't get the sense that they were saying games caused him to lose his GF. More that the subject as an individual isn't able to handle it and that there may be more people like him. It can't be denied that there are some people who become obsessed. I just got the sense that it was a cautionary tale more than anything else. As with anything you can't lump everyone in together. In the end it is a tool some will use to reach out to others and some will use to withdraw. I've used it for both.

As for the science, I don't think we can make any judgements by the article and it definitely does not have all sides of the story there. Just as the recent story of the couple getting engaged in CoH doesnt tell all the stories of romance gone wrong in CoH. If I wrote a story on how gaming can increase social activity and create lasting bonds, I most likely would not include information on gaming addicts to balance it out.

Even the best studies can be manipulated, but it is fact that some gaming companies hire consultants to advise on how to make their games more addictive. So whether we believe the science or not the intent is there is some cases.

I've heard the rumors, myths, legends and such about this as much as the next guy, but I can't say I've ever seen factual proof.

Please provide source material.

You mean actually making the games good instead of sucking? That's an interesting idea.

If the game's good, I'd play it more. Hmmm I'm onto something here...

*Places bid*

So, warning sign number one: Joel Ostean as your avatar pic.

Warning sign number two: juxtaposition of your busy work life and your family outings vs. the dismal abhorant lifestyle of google image search: WoW nerds.

Warning sign number three: you list yourself as 'very casual' and then list 7 level 50s.

Warning sign number four: you list two different home servers.

Warning sign number five: all of your listed 50s are tanks (and one token brute).

I'm not going to make offensive blanket statements about psychological issues that I might presume you to have after reading two posts you've made. I think that'd be rude. Just like I think it'd be rude to claim that people who you know almost nothing about are necessarily unfulfilled and living a life of denial. I think that if you honestly go back and look at what you said, you should be able to see why people might have taken it as a bit offensive... and why "dude, call a mod, I didn't say any names *wink wink*" is a really insufficient defense.

I wonder if the topic had been one of the following, how you'd've responded:
"New study shows, parents are dumb! Parents just don't get enough time interacting with people with fully developed brains, and therefore become stupid"
or "Opiate of the Masses? People who practice a religion clearly have self esteem problems and difficulty coping with real life issues!"
or "Workaholics anonymous. If you love your family so much, why do you keep going on those long business trips? Clearly you're repressing negative emotions while overcompensating at your job."

As a person who deeply loves her family, who has to go away on business trips from time to time, who is actively and deeply involved in her religion, and who enjoys social gaming, I would find all four of these 'studies' to be offensive, and would never think to say "well, yeah, that makes sense, you all are stupid and unfulfilled". Even if I didn't fall into any of those categories, (for example, I'm not yet a parent) I'd still be very reluctant to tell people who found it worthwhile that I know more about their life experiences than they do.

Has anyone else here every made a game? I mean really really made a game. Like, tried to ship a product, or at very least made something somewhat complex that you intend to have some replayability. "Addiction" is part of game design. Honestly. Happy neurochemical responses from positive outcomes of risk-reward scenarios -is- gaming. Why do we get loot in random drops? It's because random reward stimulus is more bodily impacting than fixed reward stimulus. From rats up to humans, we get more out of a reward if it's random. Game theory isn't just applied to games either, why do minimum wage employees sometimes get a quarterly bonus check if the store did well, or if they performed their job adequately? Why not just give them that money on their paycheck? It's because when they 'don't know if they're going to get it at all' and then they do, they feel special, and feel a stronger sense of duty and loyalty to the company.
Has anyone ever been addicted to tic tac toe? Probably not. Why? Because it's solvable. There's nothing fresh to it; you know what the outcome will be. Proper reward stimulus is one of the most important aspects of game design, and yes, any group making a game needs to consult with someone who understands the psychology or neurophysiology of pleasure stimulus if they want their game to succeed. This isn't really ground breaking, or devious. Entertainment seeks to keep you gripped to it. Which is more fun, a predictable movie in which nothing exciting or surprising happens, or one that keeps you guessing with a riveting moving plotline? Which tastes better: candy (or bacon) or white rice? This is no different than game companies trying to make their games 'addictive'. All else being equal, people would rather do a pleasurable thing than a neutral or unpleasurable thing.


But, I've rambled for far too long, and I have to get back to work now. I'd love to hear more thoughts on these topics. Tata for now.

We all make assumptions, both good and bad.

Take this homes
He reads mmo addict in a post and assumes the conversation's about his buddy, while his friend is bewildered
And rightly so because it wasn't about him.
In this case the assumption was not so flattering.


I'm black, I don't like fried chicken and I don't like watermelon and I actually stayed with my wife to raise my boys, what number warning sign would you attach to that, while you're wearing that internet psychologist jacket? I mean help a brutha out.

This.

I think it is more accurate to say that anyone who seeks to entertain others wants to make their product pleasurable or enjoyable, rather than addictive. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the word 'addictive' is a word we should use synonymously with 'enjoyable' when we talk about the intent behind games. Sure some people may use 'addictive' to describe how much they enjoyed something and want to keep doing it, but they don't mean it in the true sense of the word. However, it gets thrown around in an article like Angie posted in conjunction with comments like "drugs affect the same brain chemicals" and suddenly a company trying to figure out how to make their product more appealing becomes this underhanded, devious, manipulative act.

Not that you are suggesting that loot as a random reward stimulus is the entirety of a game, but it seems to be what people focus on when they talk about why games potentially could be addictive, or at least the psychology behind why people want to keep playing them. I think this is part of why people continue to play games, but when I think about why I continue to play, drops are at the very bottom of my list. I'll hazard a guess and say that I am not the only one who feels this way.

I haven't had a chance to comb through this, but a poster from another thread made mention of the following:

Link to full post. He goes on a bit further and provides a link at the end that might be worth looking into.

Realistically, I think it's utter BS. How is this different from someone who goes out clubbing EVERY ****ING NIGHT? You can't tell me that interactions in scenes like that aren't every bit as shallow. And don't give me this BS about face-time being a massive differentiating factor.

Addiction is addiction. Period. Whether it's to a drug, a game, or some other social outlet, it's still a problem.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Well, here's some safe assumptions about WoW...
*If you're a RP'r (especially as a troll or something else big or dumb), that explains ALOT
*If you've still stuck it out with WoW though each update totally makes the previous epic items obsolete w/ ineffective level scaling, you're an ADDICT
*If you bought into the game because of the MoHawk hand-grenade, everyone on CoH thanks you for doing so and keeping out of CoH (you friggin lemming)
*If you havent been able to progress from the swords'n'sorcery Everquest platform thats been OVER-REPLICATED by a zillion other games, and STILL play WoW, you're a crackhead AND a lemming...
*If you can tolerate asian gold farmers spamming the channels and continue to exploit the game mechanics w/o the company doing much about it, you are obviously a WoW addict AND a lemming

Maybe its because your posts here on the server have always been 'bout the same thing; you don't like so and so or someone within this so-called 'clique' or 'crowd' or 'cool kids clubs' or whatever terminology that the same players have used over the years to vent about some mythological transgression by. Color me unconvinced.

No one cares what ethnicity you are, so don't attempt to make it about that, and thereby make it an uncomfortable taboo subject as so people don't reply to your post. The only person that listed the racial stereotypes here is you.