What primaries go well with Ice Melee?


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

I am thinking of making a new Tanker using Ice Melee, which is a fairly rare set (due to low damage, I imagine). Mostly because it's a Tanker-only set.

I was thinking of going with Shield defense for the primary, since it will give it a little extra oomph through AaO and Shield Charge, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of anybody else who's used it.


 

Posted

I went with Shield but as always Ice primary is very thematic.


The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Ice/Ice is definitely a fun combo, though I might be a little biased there.

However, Ice can go well will Shields, Invulnerability, and Willpower. Why? Because they don't have damage auras, and therefore you can actually use the sleep in Frozen Aura as mitigation against minion attacks, which can be handy.

Fire/Ice can be good, too, since Fire/ will help out /Ice's lower than average damage, while /Ice helps Fire/ with some more mitigation.


I've never seen a Dark/Ice Tanker before, and while nothing would really be a poor combo there, there's also not too much direct synergy going on, either.

I'd say the worst pairing would be Stone Armor, since it generally doesn't need the higher mitigation than /Ice provides, and the slightly lower damage of Ice Melee would be felt more when in Granite Armor.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprintstnyc View Post
I am thinking of making a new Tanker using Ice Melee, which is a fairly rare set (due to low damage, I imagine). Mostly because it's a Tanker-only set.

I was thinking of going with Shield defense for the primary, since it will give it a little extra oomph through AaO and Shield Charge, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of anybody else who's used it.
I'm assuming you have the veteran reward attack powers, you'll be using them a lot. If you want to speed up the low levels, go with an offensive primary.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ice/Ice is definitely a fun combo, though I might be a little biased there.

However, Ice can go well will Shields, Invulnerability, and Willpower. Why? Because they don't have damage auras, and therefore you can actually use the sleep in Frozen Aura as mitigation against minion attacks, which can be handy.

Fire/Ice can be good, too, since Fire/ will help out /Ice's lower than average damage, while /Ice helps Fire/ with some more mitigation.


I've never seen a Dark/Ice Tanker before, and while nothing would really be a poor combo there, there's also not too much direct synergy going on, either.

I'd say the worst pairing would be Stone Armor, since it generally doesn't need the higher mitigation than /Ice provides, and the slightly lower damage of Ice Melee would be felt more when in Granite Armor.
I roled a ice/ice once, and while a very tankable tanker, it was a bit easy. I like for my toons to have a bit of challenges to over come. by that I mean, like stone, has movement issues, and learning how to use teleport in conjuction with well placed taunts and what not to gain/keep agro from multi spawns. I got tons of compliments on my stone/stone/pyre tanker because of it.

Ice/ice is like a melee controler. No damage though, however when I roled one, was before the adjustments to ice melee...

ice melee, as some one said does help the resistance tankers a bit, because of the mitigation in the ice patch, and that very wide cone dot damage slow power. Ice melee would definately add a great amount of mitigation/survival to the resistance sets.

On the flip side ice melee can make defense sets godly with out soft capped slotting because of the perma kd in ice patch, and it is very easy to double to quad stack depending on recharge. so you can actually place one ice patch, then if fast enough recharge, move just out side of first ice patch and drop another. This tactic would help those baddies that have more than 17 baddies to each spawn (council nemisis).

In my tankers I don't really need to deal damage to feel like I am doing my job, but ice melee was more meh for me than it was a WOW. However mine didn't have the upper tier powers either.

If I was to pair something with ice melee I would pair it with something that is uncommon. so my vote would go to either ea/ice, or da/ice.


protector-knight: lvl 50 invun/axe tank
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post

I've never seen a Dark/Ice Tanker before, and while nothing would really be a poor combo there, there's also not too much direct synergy going on, either.
Just one thing to say about this:

Oppressive Gloom + Ice Patch + Death Shroud + Cloak of Fear

Between all those powers you will be virtually untouchable. They'll be stunned, terrorized, and falling down simultaneously, all while taking ticks of damage from Death Shroud. You could pull an agro cap sized group into a corner, put Ice Patch on autofire, and just walk away from the computer, knowing that when you come back that entire group will be defeated. If you slot the Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage proc in Death Shroud, you can make it go even faster.

There's actually a LOT of synergy in DA/Ice if you think outside the box about it. I'm leveling one right now in fact. (Which I rolled because I'd never seen one before either)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Just one thing to say about this:

Oppressive Gloom + Ice Patch + Death Shroud + Cloak of Fear

Between all those powers you will be virtually untouchable. They'll be stunned, terrorized, and falling down simultaneously, all while taking ticks of damage from Death Shroud. You could pull an agro cap sized group into a corner, put Ice Patch on autofire, and just walk away from the computer, knowing that when you come back that entire group will be defeated. If you slot the Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage proc in Death Shroud, you can make it go even faster.

There's actually a LOT of synergy in DA/Ice if you think outside the box about it. I'm leveling one right now in fact. (Which I rolled because I'd never seen one before either)
Yeah, as soon as I said it, I thought to myself: now there's something I should play. Making all of the auras as light-white as possible, and you can write it off as frost or something. Now, if only we could make the Ice Melee attacks black (Dev's, there's such a thing as black ice: get on this!).

The only reason I wouldn't think there would be synergy with those powers (at least more so than usual) is that Oppressive Gloom/Cloak of Fear should take care of most minions anyways, so Ice Patch wouldn't be as necessary. Now, if you could get your Ice Patch to only affect the bosses and lieuts, then we'd be on to something. But if it's knocking down something that is stunned already, then it's not working to its full potential like it might with the other sets.

It's certainly not a bad combo of powers to have, I just see the other sets getting more use out of Ice Patch than Dark Armor would.


Now, if you wanted to make a melee Controller, then I'd say that Dark/Ice is the way to go. Once you get Oppressive Gloom, Cloak of Fear, Ice Patch, Freezing Touch, and Frozen Aura, you've got stuns, fears, holds, sleeps, and KD. The only thing you're really missing is an Immob and a Confuse, and you can get the immob and another hold from your APP if you so choose. Heck, go Stone APP and you can get another Hold, a ranged AoE stun, and an Immob. Go crazy and with your three power picks from no longer having to pick up Stamina, and go Presence Pool, to pick up another Taunt, a ST fear, and a PBAoE fear. Doing all that would get you:

2 ST holds
2 PBAoE fears
1 PBAoE stun
1 Ranged AoE stun
1 PBAoE sleep
1 Placeable AoE KD
1 Immob

That's nine control options. Nothing should ever touch you, as long as your endurance holds out.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Just one thing to say about this:

Oppressive Gloom + Ice Patch + Death Shroud + Cloak of Fear

Between all those powers you will be virtually untouchable. They'll be stunned, terrorized, and falling down simultaneously, all while taking ticks of damage from Death Shroud. You could pull an agro cap sized group into a corner, put Ice Patch on autofire, and just walk away from the computer, knowing that when you come back that entire group will be defeated. If you slot the Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage proc in Death Shroud, you can make it go even faster.

There's actually a LOT of synergy in DA/Ice if you think outside the box about it. I'm leveling one right now in fact. (Which I rolled because I'd never seen one before either)
Ive got a Dark/Ice Tanker I am going to start leveling up shortly. I chose this combo because it was two powersets on Tankers I hadn't tried but when I started playing around with it in Mids I thought it did have nice synergy. I liked it because it, in some ways, is a bit like a Pseudo 'troller because of all the reasons Claws describes, plus the slows, plus the ST hold, plus the AoE sleep.

Still haven't come up with a build I am completely happy with (fitting everything I want in basicly!) and can't decide between the Soul PPP or the Ice or Earth APPs.

Anyway - if you didn't go Dark Armour I would definitely suggest what Aett posted about sets with non-damaging Taunt auras.

I would also suggest Electric Armour. Not for any particular reason except it is one of my fav armour sets


Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Yeah, as soon as I said it, I thought to myself: now there's something I should play. Making all of the auras as light-white as possible, and you can write it off as frost or something. Now, if only we could make the Ice Melee attacks black (Dev's, there's such a thing as black ice: get on this!).

The only reason I wouldn't think there would be synergy with those powers (at least more so than usual) is that Oppressive Gloom/Cloak of Fear should take care of most minions anyways, so Ice Patch wouldn't be as necessary. Now, if you could get your Ice Patch to only affect the bosses and lieuts, then we'd be on to something. But if it's knocking down something that is stunned already, then it's not working to its full potential like it might with the other sets.

It's certainly not a bad combo of powers to have, I just see the other sets getting more use out of Ice Patch than Dark Armor would.


Now, if you wanted to make a melee Controller, then I'd say that Dark/Ice is the way to go. Once you get Oppressive Gloom, Cloak of Fear, Ice Patch, Freezing Touch, and Frozen Aura, you've got stuns, fears, holds, sleeps, and KD. The only thing you're really missing is an Immob and a Confuse, and you can get the immob and another hold from your APP if you so choose. Heck, go Stone APP and you can get another Hold, a ranged AoE stun, and an Immob. Go crazy and with your three power picks from no longer having to pick up Stamina, and go Presence Pool, to pick up another Taunt, a ST fear, and a PBAoE fear. Doing all that would get you:

2 ST holds
2 PBAoE fears
1 PBAoE stun
1 Ranged AoE stun
1 PBAoE sleep
1 Placeable AoE KD
1 Immob

That's nine control options. Nothing should ever touch you, as long as your endurance holds out.

Dark/Ice is my next lowbie project. Night-Shivers is sitting comfortably in Praetoria at lvl 2 waiting for me. I'm working on getting my Shield/SS tanker to 50. He's 47 right now and can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

What Aett mentions above sounds like fun. I've never played Dark/ or /Ice to any significant level so it'll be a learning experience as I level him. Thanks goodness for inherent fitness.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post

Now, if you could get your Ice Patch to only affect the bosses and lieuts, then we'd be on to something. But if it's knocking down something that is stunned already, then it's not working to its full potential like it might with the other sets.
Not true.

When a minion gets stunned the first thing it will do is start wandering away from you. Speaking from my experience with a Dark Armor scrapper, minions will quickly scatter and leave the radius of Death Shroud. If the Ice patch is knocking them down while they are stunned, they are going to stay nicely clumped around you, and completely unable to do anything at all while taking the damage from Death Shroud consistently.

The biggest problem I have with Oppressive Gloom is that anything stunned by it will wander away from you, and turn around and shoot you after the stun wears off. Using Ice Patch to keep them right there next to you will ensure that they will not only keep taking damage, but the stun from OGloom will keep stacking and keep the stun from ever wearing off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

I'll agree with Claws and Effect. I'm still leveling my Da/Ice tank (27 at the moment), but he's pretty survivable so far. /Ice doesn't seem to do a whole ton of damage at once, but I can definitely survive to grind things down. It's all a matter of whether (first) my red and then blue bars can let me last long enough to do it. I don't have OG yet, but I do have CoF (took it because I'd never used it on my /DA scrappers and figured that the tohit debuff could make for a bit of nice layered mitigation against the bosses/lts). CoF and Ice Patch lower the incoming damage quite a bit. Taunt, Gauntlet, and Death Shroud all pull things in closer, right onto the Ice Patch.

While I may take more damage per hit than a pure resistance set and get hit more often than a defense set, the combination of moderate resists, some debuffing / fear, knockdown on Ice Patch, slows in my attacks, coupled with a MASSIVE heal makes for a sturdy character. He has a few weak spots to be sure- ranged attackers with slows (Council Marksmen, I'm looking at you!) or the ever popular tohit debuffing enemies (Tsoo Sorcs, Storm Shamans). It's a combo that works better than I hoped it would (I chose /Ice mainly because I had never played it before and I figured the slows would add a bit of mitigation to DA).


 

Posted

I went with shields. For 2 reason. One being I was making "elemental" warriors wanted an Ice melee guy but hated how ice armor looked. So, Shields, with the ice shield, worked thematicly for me. Second, Shields adds +dmg and aoe to a set that's light on dmg in general.

He's 50 and tough enough to, last i checked, tank pretty much anything. I haven't played him in a long time, and he'd need an I19 respec at this point... if i get around to it... to many alts i have...


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Posted

First, please see my Ice Melee guide if you think Ice Melee is really "low damage", unless you mean low ST damage, which it fully is. AoE-wise, it's actually one of the better secondaries for tankers, behind SS, Fire & Elec (possibly Mace too depending on how you play). It has of course one of the best mitigation of all tanker secondaries (Stone Melee fans often think it's the best--I think it's a tossup bet the two).

Second, Claws makes a great about about the DA/Ice combo that I hadn't though of before. I still think Stone/Ice (which is what I run) is the ultimate defensive force in the game, but if you want more offense, SD/Ice & Fire/Ice are also excellent alternatives. Once you pick up & slot FA, AAO + SC (or FE + Burn) + FA + Frost will absolutely wreck things in your path.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
First, please see my Ice Melee guide if you think Ice Melee is really "low damage", unless you mean low ST damage, which it fully is. AoE-wise, it's actually one of the better secondaries for tankers, behind SS, Fire & Elec (possibly Mace too depending on how you play). It has of course one of the best mitigation of all tanker secondaries (Stone Melee fans often think it's the best--I think it's a tossup bet the two).
So it's got bad ST and it's tied for 4th in AOE but isn't "low damage"? I kid, i kid. (kind of.. i'm being playful atleast. heh) It's a good set, don't get me wrong. Had alot of fun with it. But it is one of them sets that really doesn't have alot to offer other then thematic or nitch appeal to tanks. It's got low ST damage, slightly better then avg aoe, maybe the best midigation, but with some primarys, that's really a moot point.

Ice is one of them sets you take for concept or you take to stand out.


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@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...

 

Posted

Well, I always believed there were 3 pillars for melee secondaries, ST damage, AoE damage & mitigation. Of the three, I think ST damage is the least valuable for a tank, so having a very high mitigation and high AoE damage puts Ice Melee towards the top overall sets in my book, even w/pi** poor ST damage. Also, cold damage is less resisted than, say, smashing, so IM has that going for it.

True that a good enough primary leaves mitigation not as important, but that mitigation also helps your team, even if you're perfectly fine (and as a Stony, I'm usually perfectly fine). Of course killing things faster also helps your team, which is why I also love Fire Melee & SS.

I will say my least favorite tanker sets are ST-oriented sets. EM, SM, DM all do little to excite me, despite having decent-to-great mitigation (and my first 50 tank was a Fire/EM). Slightly different priorities for scrappers, and likely brutes too, though I still like AoE damage best.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
I will say my least favorite tanker sets are ST-oriented sets. EM, SM, DM all do little to excite me, despite having decent-to-great mitigation (and my first 50 tank was a Fire/EM). Slightly different priorities for scrappers, and likely brutes too, though I still like AoE damage best.
When i play a tank, i tend to envision myself as a classic comic book "strong" man on the team. So, i tend to prefur what i'd call high impact sets. Superstrength, Stonemelee, War Mace/Axe, stuff with a CRUNCH to it. A little shacking screen, a little knockdown... a big tud, and i'm usually happy with it. (I'm easy to please. LOL)

Ice never really had that. And that's ok, different strokes for different fokes. Maybe that colors my judgment a bit. *shrug* having Shield Charge on my ice build did help... heh.


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My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...