If you've only played them to lv 20 and not slotted SOs yet, the brute should probably out damage the scrapper by a pretty fair amount. Pre SOs, a scrapper really is having to rely on about half(?) of the damage enhancements they'll have later. A brute is doing the same, but it's not as noticeable due to the lower base damage and the nice damage buff from fury.
With that being said, KM is probably better on a scrapper than a brute. The damage buff from PS will be more effective for the scrapper and they have the ability to get an instant recharge to PS if they crit with CS. I do have a KM/DA brute around lv 28 that I have a lot of fun with. So even though I said it's better for a scrapper, KM is still good on a brute, it's just not as good.
I have a DM/WP scrapper and a DM/SD brute both around 30ish, but honestly I really don't like DM that much so I don't have an opinion of which it's better on. For the KM vs. DM, I like KM better, but for a /SD I think DM offers better utility and from what I understand, damage wise both are fairly close for ST damage and KM is a little better for AoE damage. For the brute vs. scrapper part, honestly for me I think it's more of fury vs. crits. In general, the scrapper will have a little better damage and the brute will have a little more survivability. If you don't like having to worry about keeping fury high, scrapper is probably the better pick. If you do like keeping fury up, brute is better.
Quote:
You're going to open up a giant can of worms here.|
Originally Posted by Meruru
If you've only played them to lv 20 and not slotted SOs yet, the brute should probably out damage the scrapper by a pretty fair amount.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Darkers
Ok so i have played all four of these builds on scrappers and brutes to 20 now. I simply cannot make up my mind at all, KM/SD vs. DM/SD....from my experience in playing these guys it seems like brutes are a lot better in terms of dmg and survivability does this change drastically once I get to 50 and complete IO a character? (I have many other 50 AT and I have lots and lots of saved up purple IOs, so thats not an issue)
Also it seems like DM is the better choice for a primary as well, but with more accuracy and recharge in my powers complimenting PS does this change? I guess, what I am really asking for is help in making the decision between brute and scrapper, as well as KM/SD or DM/SD for end game content. I plan on soloing AV's and doing lots of TF's and badge collection....I just don't know on which toon yet.....any insight you forum gurus could give me would be greatly appreciated. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
If you are rolling a /SD character, go with a Scrapper. Shield Defense is just so much better for that AT. Against All Odds is far better for the Scrapper AT and Shield Charge does more damage as a Brute is penalized by the 400% pet damage cap, which will often make any +damage from Soul Drain or Power Siphon completely wasted on the Brute.
I prefer to play as Brutes in general, but Shield Defense is something that is markedly superior for Scrappers.
Quote:
IIRC, isn't the Brute's damage modifier higher and then comes down to 0.75 around level 20? If that's the case, then if nothing else we can say that pre-level 20 is not going to give an accurate comparison of post-level 20. SO's only exacerbate that inaccuracy.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You're going to open up a giant can of worms here.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
If you are rolling a /SD character, go with a Scrapper. Shield Defense is just so much better for that AT. Against All Odds is far better for the Scrapper AT and Shield Charge does more damage as a Brute is penalized by the 400% pet damage cap, which will often make any +damage from Soul Drain or Power Siphon completely wasted on the Brute.
I prefer to play as Brutes in general, but Shield Defense is something that is markedly superior for Scrappers. |
The higher resistance caps will not come up often as a Brute (SD is not a resist-based set), they have the same defense modifier so it's just as easy to softcap the Scrapper, so really the only case where the Brute is going to come out ahead is when teammates offer extreme +damage buffs (bringing you to the cap) and the only extra survivability you can reasonably expect is extra hit points.
In my opinion, the extra hitpoints and occasional scenario where you're at damage cap do not out weigh the ridiculous amount of extra damage the Scrapper will do with either of these sets.
I say you do DM/SD. Exotic damage type, levels nicely because the -ToHit stacks with your defense, and with an expensive build, DM/SD is absolutely mind blowing.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
IMO.... I would play the DM/SD if it is a brute... I have one and had fun leveling it. I just liked having darkest night(PPP) on defense based powerset and it is nice to have a small heal in the primary to help a little with SD since that power lacks a self heal. As for a scrapper I played a KM/Elec and it seemed to go well together and the secondary had a heal that made up for not having one in the primary.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Quote:
Yeah, all characters start off with nearly the same (if not exactly the same) AT damage modifier. It gradually levels off as you progress up into the low twenties.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
IIRC, isn't the Brute's damage modifier higher and then comes down to 0.75 around level 20? If that's the case, then if nothing else we can say that pre-level 20 is not going to give an accurate comparison of post-level 20. SO's only exacerbate that inaccuracy.
|
Controllers are the big winners in the lowest level range, because they still get Containment even when their AT damage modifier is artificially inflated.
Quote:
| You can say this about DM and KM as well. Aside from what you mentioned, Power Siphon and Soul Drain put both sets leaning heavily on +dam buffs. For all of these sets, the Scrapper is going to out pace the Brute. Damage buffs for all of these powers are higher on Scrappers on top of the higher base damage Scrappers get, so they offer a lot more damage to the Scrapper. |
Personally, the only Brute I'd play is SS at this point. Then again, I'm mostly a solo player. If you plan to team a lot, the higher caps on Brutes (combined with the inherent pseudo-Gauntlet effect on Brute attacks) might make them better overall.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
 |
Quote:
What's to open? They DO beat the pants off scrappers before SOs.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You're going to open up a giant can of worms here.
|
However, popping build up on a scrapper gives you a ten second taste of things to come post-SOs. During that 10 seconds a low level scrapper will indeed kick the everloving crap out of a low level brute's damage.
Once SOs are slotted brute SO-slotted + fury is roughly equal to scrapper so-slotted. With the scrapper periodically flipping out and doing more spike damage via a crit than a brute could ever hope to reach solo. My sm/wp brute's biggest hit against a smash vulnerable robot is something like 700ish. My bs/regen scrapper's biggest hit against a lethal vulnerable carnie is 1400 ish thanks to a crit.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Ok so i have played all four of these builds on scrappers and brutes to 20 now. I simply cannot make up my mind at all, KM/SD vs. DM/SD....from my experience in playing these guys it seems like brutes are a lot better in terms of dmg and survivability does this change drastically once I get to 50 and complete IO a character? (I have many other 50 AT and I have lots and lots of saved up purple IOs, so thats not an issue)
Also it seems like DM is the better choice for a primary as well, but with more accuracy and recharge in my powers complimenting PS does this change?
I guess, what I am really asking for is help in making the decision between brute and scrapper, as well as KM/SD or DM/SD for end game content. I plan on soloing AV's and doing lots of TF's and badge collection....I just don't know on which toon yet.....any insight you forum gurus could give me would be greatly appreciated.