Any manuals how to make a second floor?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-11-17 09:35 in Base Construction
Whatever you do, ignore what anyone says about using desks to stack desks. Desks can make a floor but do not ever use them as your tool to stack.
If you play around with the floor lamps and floor tiles, you will see that you can "place" the floor tile on about 12 different spots on the pole of the lamp and the lamp itself. You can stack lamps on top of other lamps, giving you literally dozens of options on height. You can stack your lamps to desired heights, then place floor tiles at the desired heights, and place whatever you want to make your floor with on those floor tiles. Once complete, delete the floor tiles and the lamps by going into the sections for current objects in the room.
You can use safes too, but I've found lamps for me to be easier.
As for manuals, I'd like to see one for this. Most of what I have seen has been for basic base building stuff. I'd hope that most could learn all that on their own. I've considered writing an advanced guide on how to do the various forms of stacking (safes, lamps, desks, wall objects, ceiling objects, slanting wall objects, etc.) and just general information on design (aka how to not look like a noob).
I am at work right now, so I don't have time to get the link. Stacker has some excellent training videos on base building on youtube. They include stacking, and alot of other neat tricks used in base building. You should check them out.
The stickied "i13 stacking tools" thread pretty much covers it. Click on the underlined links in ExChamp's posts. The concept is pretty simple.
Stacker's vid is also handy, but I don't have the link off hand.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y6nrpNGCJc
Stacker has a 3 part video series covering this subject.
His fluorescent lamp stairways are amazing.
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I havent tried, but can't you use the desks stacked like that to get the floor where you want it? (ie you want the height to be 3 desks off the ground, so stack 3 desks, then lay the floor tile down and build out the floor from there?)
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Originally Posted by Chant
Whatever you do, ignore what anyone says about using desks to stack desks. Desks can make a floor but do not ever use them as your tool to stack.
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yes you can stack 3 desks and place a tile to make a floor. safes and lamps are another way. I use desks for stacking sometimes just because the tile is big and i need to see from the top down. the biggest piece of advice i can give to new builders is know your grab points. a grab point is the place on the item that your curser points to when you place a item. for example a desks grab point in the lower corner. i talk about it in the videos. look in my sig and im always somewhere if questions need to be answered. good luck and happy building!!
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Desks are flawed because of the following reasons:|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
I havent tried, but can't you use the desks stacked like that to get the floor where you want it? (ie you want the height to be 3 desks off the ground, so stack 3 desks, then lay the floor tile down and build out the floor from there?)
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1. There's only one level on a desk that you can place the tile.
2. If you stack desks, and then want to delete a desk in the middle of the stack, you cannot just delete it, you have to drag it to another room to delete it.
3. Stacked desks causes some texture overlappings. This is that graphical issue you see between the desks that occurs when you move the camera about. This promotes a lot of lag within your base if done frequently.
4. To me anyways, it looks like noob base work. You can do the same thing and have 12 more options with lamps and avoid texture overlapping. When I go into a base, and all I see is stacked desks and no other forms of stacking I either assume the builder is lazy or just does not know the better options.
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I can agree that using desks was the "original" way to stack and that there are now other ways to do it - but I can't really agree with your evaluation that using desks is "noob" or "lazy". I have rooms in my base made by stacking desks that I haven't changed since making them YEARS AGO, because I like the way they look and changing them is unnecessary. I'm not being a noob or being lazy - I'm just satisfied with the way the room came out.|
Originally Posted by Chant
Desks are flawed because of the following reasons:
1. There's only one level on a desk that you can place the tile. 2. If you stack desks, and then want to delete a desk in the middle of the stack, you cannot just delete it, you have to drag it to another room to delete it. 3. Stacked desks causes some texture overlappings. This is that graphical issue you see between the desks that occurs when you move the camera about. This promotes a lot of lag within your base if done frequently. 4. To me anyways, it looks like noob base work. You can do the same thing and have 12 more options with lamps and avoid texture overlapping. When I go into a base, and all I see is stacked desks and no other forms of stacking I either assume the builder is lazy or just does not know the better options. |
And also - stacker stated in his post above that he still uses desks from time to time.
So your statement that using desks is noobish or lazy or "don't know any better" comes off as a bit judgemental and arrogant.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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If you will reread my comment, I stated that if that is all I see then I make that judgement. Of course, there are instances where using desks are warranted. Me personally though, even if I use desks I still stack them with the lamp to avoid texture overlapping.|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
So your statement that using desks is noobish or lazy or "don't know any better" comes off as a bit judgemental and arrogant.
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I'm sure if I saw a room you did, and it was good quality and done before all this other sort of stuff came out, and it was very complex and time-consuming, I would acknowledge why you left the room the way it was. But for NEW base building, I strongly advise against using just desks. As previously stated, if you want to use desks, still stack them with another method to avoid the texture overlapping.
That's my two cents, people can do what they want with their bases and I will just remain arrogant I guess.
Hugs to everyone!
Will watch the video tonight!
Giggles
Stormy
Used to be, desks were the ONLY way to "float" items above the ground. The floor tiles, floor safes, and accent lamps didn't let items stack on them.
And on top of that, you had to make "magic" desks that allowed them to stack properly, by fiddling with their rotation until the game bugged and let you stack.
You can imagine how tedious this was, as you literally had to make a stack of magic desks every few feet.
-k
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
Push come to shove you can always ask someone here in Base Builders to show you in person how to stack.
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Originally Posted by Chant
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I'm sure if I saw a room you did, and it was good quality and done before all this other sort of stuff came out, and it was very complex and time-consuming, I would acknowledge why you left the room the way it was. But for NEW base building, I strongly advise against using just desks. As previously stated, if you want to use desks, still stack them with another method to avoid the texture overlapping. That's my two cents, people can do what they want with their bases and I will just remain arrogant I guess. |
i dont know what rooms you have seen with desks flickering because as much as i have used them in my projects i have not had a problem. I understand your point making a second floor by stacking desks now is crazy, but using them in a design or as a tool is still the big core to base building. some counters will not allow items places on them...im not breaking out a tile when a simple desk will do. but i also come from the old school where to make a "magic" desk you had to rotate them so many times before you place them to be able to stack. texture overlaping is going to happen when building...but its all about how you hide it. this was the old school....look what we had to do to stack things. that is a sewer cap and it took 947 desks to get it there.
here is a new school way of stacking and i can tell you there is no flickering
and a look back at the first room finished....all done the old way. No two items intersect.
so to call people lazy that just use desks is just stupid. i use them in 95% of the stuff i do but thats just a noob talking.
AWESOME rooms!
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I would by no means insult the amount of effort you put into your base. I still contend that desks used in every case of stacking is less than optimal. And it seems you misread what I intended as well, as even though desks is your main tool for stacking, even you admit that its not the best thing for every case. I think there are times when desks are reasonable to use, and in your case you may have found those. And just as I said before, if I see a base has nothing but this kind of stacking, then I am inclined to make that judgement. Let me clarify in saying that there are exceptions, but I'd imagine they are few and far between based upon my personal experiences with touring bases. And likewise by my original statement, your work would not be included in that category as 5% of what you do does not include desks, and my statement concerned 100% :P|
Originally Posted by stacker
so to call people lazy that just use desks is just stupid. i use them in 95% of the stuff i do but thats just a noob talking.
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A better way to say what I intended would be to say that in most every case where I have seen someone use nothing but desk stacking, it has for the most part been either very old work or amateur work. Obviously I have not seen every base on every server, this is based on my personal experiences and observations (and opinion).
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I disagree with this as well, by my definition of texture overlapping. I have none in my base. I do have items that touch, but no texture overlapping glitches.
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Originally Posted by stacker
texture overlaping is going to happen when building...but its all about how you hide it. this was the old school....look what we had to do to stack things. that is a sewer cap and it took 947 desks to get it there.
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In no way do i think you are insulting the work of many people that are building. But to use a statement like "Whatever you do, ignore what anyone says about using desks to stack desks" is crazy. Here is my point, to build a entire second with out using a safe/light + tile combo would take forever. yes you are not going to get height adjustments with a desk. but using the desk as a stacking tool for detail work i would use nothing else. to use all these tools safes lamps tiles and desks is the key to great building.
Now using desks as a building block to make things like walls floors ceilings its a big part of building depending on the theme you are going for. overlapping desks does not make them flicker if done correctly. its all about placement and again like i said knowing how to cover up what you do not want to be seen. I get that in your personal opinion that you do not build with desks but you should not discourage people to use them because you haven't figured out how to not make them glitch or found a way to cover it up.
This room has just over 1600 items 1200 of them are desks and there is not one glitch. and this is the New school way of building with safe/lamp and floor tile
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I know there is a way to place desks without glitches, I have done it before. I just find it easier to continue to use lamps/tiles for the kind of building I do. Perhaps this is just a personal flaw of my own, but I think its much easier to avoid desk stacking altogether for various reasons as stated above.|
Originally Posted by stacker
because you haven't figured out how to not make them glitch or found a way to cover it up.
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Covering them up is easy as well. Say if you have a problem with a glitch at the end of a series of desks, and you cannot avoid glitching to make the desks fit a certain way in a certain area. Obviously the solution I have found is to just put something on top of the glitch, or surround that glitch with another object. Maybe you have found a better solution that works for you, I don't know.
I need to find a picture of a base in which I was referring to so you know what I was speaking against. And if you are going to give advice and advocate desk stacking, you should give details to how you avoid the overlapping (this is a general you, obviously you have video links where you try to explain things correctly). I've found it easier to tell new builders to avoid the desks altogether unless really called for, and even if you do use the desks to use the lamp/tile method. I think if you just say "yeah use desks!" then the user will tend to peform the type of building I was speaking against. Obviously you have a completely different approach and one I can respect, but its just not my method.
I also wanted to say that if every base builder that used desks built wonderful rooms like in those pictures then I would retract every statement I made.
Maybe I've just seen too many bad designs that desks have left a bad taste on my tongue. For example, buildings where the knobs of the shelves on the desk are visible in what is supposed to be a wall. I see that you have avoided all of that.
In the few times I have built modern rooms, I have tended to use counters instead of desks myself for walls, etc. I have felt that it gives viewers on my server something more unique to see. Maybe you disagree, but I just find lamps/tiles not only more liberating, but just easier.
I don't think I'm missing anything from not using desks, but I guess thats easy for me to say since most of what I end up doing is archane anyways.
As for Fergie's statement about joined dates, my vet badges would reveal I have been a much longer player than since 2009. I just avoided the forums for a long period of time, and I'm starting to remember why. Please, if you disagree with me that's fine, but stick to the issue and not make a personal attack.
But I respect Stacker not just for his work, but his patience enduring the magic desk method. I was around back then, and I tried it some and honestly I gave up. I guess in Stacker's book that would make ME lazy.
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Originally Posted by Chant
Desks are flawed because of the following reasons:
1. There's only one level on a desk that you can place the tile. 2. If you stack desks, and then want to delete a desk in the middle of the stack, you cannot just delete it, you have to drag it to another room to delete it. 3. Stacked desks causes some texture overlappings. This is that graphical issue you see between the desks that occurs when you move the camera about. This promotes a lot of lag within your base if done frequently. 4. To me anyways, it looks like noob base work. You can do the same thing and have 12 more options with lamps and avoid texture overlapping. When I go into a base, and all I see is stacked desks and no other forms of stacking I either assume the builder is lazy or just does not know the better options. |
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Originally Posted by Chant
Please, if you disagree with me that's fine, but stick to the issue and not make a personal attack. ...
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But your 4th reason is not a support for the argument that the desks are flawed, but that you find flaw in the PEOPLE using those desks. That was an unnecessary comment and was indeed unkind and judgemental toward those in the community who still like to use the process, flawed or not.
You really could have made your case without that 4th "point"... ya kinda shot yourself in the foot with that.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Never in a million years would I think that anyone that ventures in to stacking in a base would be lazy. now I do believe that base building in general takes patients, and the bigger the project the more you need. |
Originally Posted by Chant
I guess in Stacker's book that would make ME lazy.
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In what I do it needs to look good in my eyes and if that means rebuilding a project from the ground up thats what I do....but thats just me...Im a bit of a freak when it comes down to it. with any project you have to have a basic idea and I will lay out a outline on the floor in a room to see if it is going to work before I get to stacking it up in the air. all you need is to be off on one thing and well things wont line up. Looks like I have a topic for a new video.
Just because you dont use desks does not mean you do not know how to build. its all about what end goal you are looking for. in a arcane style base yes you may not use desks at all, but all my point has been is not to say they are completely broken and you shouldnt use them when its more about learning how to work around the limitations of the desk and making it work.
To look at the big picture the base building system flawed in itself not desks. face it what we do is just a big glitch in the system. the devs did not intend to make stacking with desks safes lamps or any other item in the game, its just a bug that they have over looked and let stand. Yes its a awesome bug that we all use and love....well most of us.
There are three types of desk counters of each texture, one with a sink, one plain, one with drawers.
The plain one and drawer one will not cause texture flickering if overlapped. I alternate them in rows to avoid the ugly flickers.
-k
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Well, to use a political cliche, I would say that my fourth statement is a "mistatement." I'd agree that I could have just stuck with the first three and avoided most of the backlash. With that being said, if someone was offended for an honest reason, I regret that statement. It was indeed "unnecessary." In other words, I apologize.|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
The problem is, Chant, in your first post you give reasons why you believe using desks is a flawed process. Your first 3 reasons are logical and well presented.
But your 4th reason is not a support for the argument that the desks are flawed, but that you find flaw in the PEOPLE using those desks. That was an unnecessary comment and was indeed unkind and judgemental toward those in the community who still like to use the process, flawed or not. You really could have made your case without that 4th "point"... ya kinda shot yourself in the foot with that. . |
As for Stacker, I'd agree the whole base building system iteself in inherently flawed, and while I have my personal preferences, in reality every design is flawed due to the fact that it's a flawed system in the first place. I guess that brings us all back to what we can agree on, and that is that base building is the most neglected feature of the game. We shouldn't have to stack to create second or third floors, or combine random items together in the hopes that it looks like a toilet in a bathroom or whatever. We should have those options in the first place. I don't think those opinions would offend anyone here in this section of the forums :P
I also think that if I saw bases like stacker's base I would have not been quick to say that. My server in general is very dry of decent base builders, and the few of us who take it seriously tend to build with the same methods. I have visited other servers and seen some very amazing stuff though. Likewise, I am fairly new to the forums and to this section especially, so I am sure I have a lot to see. I know base building is undervalued across the game, but it seems to be especially the case on my server. If anyone here has anything unique that they would like to share with me in-game, I'd love to see it.
Hi...
I seen some posting about "staking" desks, safes, lamps, floor tiles, and what not... But how do you stack them?
Are there any manuals out there that can teach me or tell me how step, by step?
Hugs
Stormy