Taunt aura's. Which is the easiest set to manage aggro?
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-11-07 13:59 in Tankers
Willpower does have a taunt aura (rise to the challenge), but it's significantly worse than other taunt auras. Most taunt auras have mag 4 taunt for 13.5 seconds, rise to the challenge is mag 3 for 1.25 seconds. As far as I know the mag doesn't actually make a difference, but the duration definitely does. The total threat generated is proportional to the *remaining* taunt duration on the target, so RTTC's short duration means you're generating *much* less threat than normal aggro auras. On top of that, the duration is short enough that it might expire between pulses on higher level foes, so it's really quite bad at keeping the attention of mobs focused on you.
The extremely weak taunt aura is more or less unique to willpower, however. All the other sets have at least one aura with a taunt duration of 13.5 seconds or more, so any other set will hold aggro much more easily than willpower. If you're really going for hard-core aggro management, though, the best set is generally accepted to be ice. Ice actually has *two* aggro auras - chilling embrace and icicles - and chilling embrace ticks faster and has a larger radius than normal. Chilling embrace also carries a strong debuff effect, and those sorts of effects seem to have a pretty significant impact on the threat totals.
That's only if you really have to have the absolute best aggro management, though. Anything besides willpower will also work well.
@MuonNeutrino
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Inv/ is still actually stronger than Ice/'s aggro aura (Inv, Ice and Dark are considered to be the top 3 as I recall.)
WP's aggro aura is weak because of the short duration, radius and long tick-rate, its possible to slot taunt IOs into RTTC so the duration and magnitude double stack, but WP/'s lack of astrong aura is often considered it's only drawback.
As long as you don't press hand-clap and knock everything out of your aggro aura while a teammate is nuking, you should be applying enough gauntlet due to rage and footstomp to keep most aggro. (The reason why Inv/SS is the king of aggro, great aggro aura, and high damage to sustain enough gauntlet over any other tanker combo, Ice/SS or Dark/SS wold give tough competition though.)
There are ways to improve your aggro control on a willpower tanker, but the majority of them involve pulling in ways to get as much mobs into a tight space as possible (So they can't be knocked out of your aura) and applying enough damage to keep them interested on you.
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Did you mean to say threat, rather than gauntlet? AFAIK, Rage doesn't effect gauntlet, but the increase in damage can help maintain threat.|
Originally Posted by Flints
As long as you don't press hand-clap and knock everything out of your aggro aura while a teammate is nuking, you should be applying enough gauntlet due to rage and footstomp to keep most aggro. (The reason why Inv/SS is the king of aggro, great aggro aura, and high damage to sustain enough gauntlet over any other tanker combo, Ice/SS or Dark/SS wold give tough competition though.)
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What the previous two posters said is true, it's because RttC is a weak taunt aura. However, you shouldn't have too much trouble.
SS is also part of the problem. What level are you? Lacking AoE damage before level 38 will make it a little harder to hold aggro. The lack of a debuff on your attacks means they cause less threat than some other attack sets would.
You should be spreading your taunt and ST attacks around to spread the taunt-love that comes from sources other than RttC. Also, with RttC's weakness in mind, you may slot the power Taunt more than you otherwise would. There's some boss sets that are pretty cheap, so consider investing in it if you haven't already.
I have a WP/DB Tanker, and I almost never had trouble controlling aggro. Even with a duo partner who happened to be a Fire/ Blaster who loved to draw extra groups, I could still hold everyones' attention.
If all else fails, you could pick up Provoke from the presence pool, to have an extra taunt power when you need the extra threat. Since SOOO much of your damage will come from Footstomp and your Epic's AoE, you could easily toss Provoke and Taunt inbetween your attacks without much drop in DPS. However, the only advantage to Provoke over Gauntlet is the larger radius.
@Gilia1
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One thing to note if you're worried about aggro auras is that the damage auras (Blazing Aura, Lightning Field, Death Shroud, and Icicles) have to pass a to-hit roll, so you always have a 5% chance of missing with a pulse. On the upside, you're doing damage as well as taunting. This is less noticeable on Ice and Dark, as they both have multiple auras - ice has an auto-hit debuff aura, while Dark has the two mez auras (which also require hit rolls, but the odds of missing for ten straight seconds plummet).
And, of course, Fire has Burn and Fiery Embrace to keep you top of the "must die" list.
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Willpower has, as has been mentioned, by far the weakest taunt aura of any tanker. It has a duration of only 1.25 seconds and Mag 3 with a tic rate of 1 second... facing +2 or higher mobs it won't even last until the next tic. Anything in melee with you will stick provided a scrapper doesn't steal it but if you or the mob moves out of range it'll forget about you almost immediately. By way of contrast EVERY other tanker aura has a taunt of Mag 4 and a duration of at least 13.5 seconds. Invuln and Shield both have a duration of 16.8 seconds.|
Originally Posted by FaceBreaker
Hmm.. I created a Willpower~SS Tanker not too long ago but I have a hard time managing aggro, the set doesn't have a taunt aura? I spam Taunt whenever I can but I'm finding it quite difficult. I'm looking to reroll for an easier time tanking as it's what I enjoy playing but which set has the better aura?
Cheers.  |
By the way, an Invuln or Shield scrapper has a pretty decent aura as well... in fact last I looked they had tanker numbers for their auras so they WILL steal aggro from you.
Now an aura isn't the only tool you have for aggro control, a secondary with strong AOE like /Fire Melee will mask the extremely poor aura of WP since the Gauntlet effect of your AOE attacks will last 13.5 seconds. Unfortunately /SS is exclusively single target focused until level 38 so that coupled with the poor (in my opinion virtually useless) aura is why you're having so much trouble.
If you want to control aggro easily the top choices, in my opinion, are:
1 - Ice Armor, Chilling Embrace is the fastest activating autohit aura in the game (0.5 second tic rate) so it grabs aggro instantly and coupled with Icicles it adds a damage aura that makes mobs stick like glue. Be aware that Ice will be somewhat squishy until it's defenses mature however. When it comes to aggro however I know of no set that does it better.
2 - Tossup between Invuln and Shield; they both share the longest duration of any aura, are both autohit and they tic reasonably quickly (1 second). Both of these primaries work very well, they're both highly durable (Invuln early, Shield when it matures) and neither has any problems. If you're after damage Shield is the king, but a mature Invuln will be a bit tougher. In the early going Shield gets it's aura at level 8 and Invuln has to wait until 18.
3 - Probably Dark since it has 3 auras to stack; they do have to roll tohit however so they may be problematic with certain mobs.
4 - Most of the other sets would fall into this category without any real difference in their aggro abilities. Although Stone armor is unrivaled in durability and has a decent aura I wouldn't suggest it as a first tanker due to the mobility penalties it has.
8 - And finally we get to Willpower... if you want to control aggro this is by far the worst set for the job. With the right secondary and with a skilled tanker player behind the controls it can do the job but it's MUCH harder.
Now you didn't ask but as a FYI tanker durability would fall something like this:
Stone Armor - post 32 and Granite armor
Invuln (moderate IO bonuses and softcapped)
Shield, Willpower
Invuln (basic performance, no IO bonuses)
Ice (soft cap it defensively with IO bonuses and it moves up a notch)
Electric (with IO bonuses it may move up some)
Stone Armor pre 32
Dark (I know it gets godly with a lot of IO bonuses)
Fire (again with massive IO bonuses it gets good)
You'll find different opinions of course but in general and excluding a highly optimized IO build I think most would agree with most of these placings.
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Agreed with Stone, Invuln and WP being top 3|
Stone Armor - post 32 and Granite armor Invuln (moderate IO bonuses and softcapped) Shield, Willpower Invuln (basic performance, no IO bonuses) Ice (soft cap it defensively with IO bonuses and it moves up a notch) Electric (with IO bonuses it may move up some) Stone Armor pre 32 Dark (I know it gets godly with a lot of IO bonuses) Fire (again with massive IO bonuses it gets good) |
I would put fire and electric equal for durability and mitigation because of BU/FE +Burn and 13 second Healing Flames against the +8% Resist and 37 second Energize + 190% regen. They both need the exact same IO’s for Def caps and over 40 seconds Fire’s kill speed +HF = Elec’s +resist/regen. I would even lump Dark in there too if you average out their extra mitigation from low ACC Fear / OG and end usage plus targeted / opponents needed heal.
Maybe even add Ice and Shield in the same group, since with IO’s sets Fire/Elec/Dark can soft cap s/l just like them and still have 70 – 80% resist to add to it.
P.S. I have seen Ice and Shield tanks horribly fail on STF / LRSF and Fire, Elec and Dark breeze through it with out even a sweat. It’s the “total” package of resist/def/hp's and mitigation not just s/l def
As for the taunt auras , I agree 100% with your list.
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Agreed, Ice/ is king.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Willpower has, as has been mentioned, by far the weakest taunt aura of any tanker. It has a duration of only 1.25 seconds and Mag 3 with a tic rate of 1 second... facing +2 or higher mobs it won't even last until the next tic. Anything in melee with you will stick provided a scrapper doesn't steal it but if you or the mob moves out of range it'll forget about you almost immediately. By way of contrast EVERY other tanker aura has a taunt of Mag 4 and a duration of at least 13.5 seconds. Invuln and Shield both have a duration of 16.8 seconds.
By the way, an Invuln or Shield scrapper has a pretty decent aura as well... in fact last I looked they had tanker numbers for their auras so they WILL steal aggro from you. Now an aura isn't the only tool you have for aggro control, a secondary with strong AOE like /Fire Melee will mask the extremely poor aura of WP since the Gauntlet effect of your AOE attacks will last 13.5 seconds. Unfortunately /SS is exclusively single target focused until level 38 so that coupled with the poor (in my opinion virtually useless) aura is why you're having so much trouble. If you want to control aggro easily the top choices, in my opinion, are: 1 - Ice Armor, Chilling Embrace is the fastest activating autohit aura in the game (0.5 second tic rate) so it grabs aggro instantly and coupled with Icicles it adds a damage aura that makes mobs stick like glue. Be aware that Ice will be somewhat squishy until it's defenses mature however. When it comes to aggro however I know of no set that does it better. 2 - Tossup between Invuln and Shield; they both share the longest duration of any aura, are both autohit and they tic reasonably quickly (1 second). Both of these primaries work very well, they're both highly durable (Invuln early, Shield when it matures) and neither has any problems. If you're after damage Shield is the king, but a mature Invuln will be a bit tougher. In the early going Shield gets it's aura at level 8 and Invuln has to wait until 18. 3 - Probably Dark since it has 3 auras to stack; they do have to roll tohit however so they may be problematic with certain mobs. 4 - Most of the other sets would fall into this category without any real difference in their aggro abilities. Although Stone armor is unrivaled in durability and has a decent aura I wouldn't suggest it as a first tanker due to the mobility penalties it has. 8 - And finally we get to Willpower... if you want to control aggro this is by far the worst set for the job. With the right secondary and with a skilled tanker player behind the controls it can do the job but it's MUCH harder. |
I'd have Invul/ right behind it - strong enough that the scrapper aura can slide aggro away from tanks that take their own aggro auras for granted.
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Lots of the sets can get pretty close together in durability, especially when you take IO sets into consideration. My personal experience is with Stone, Invuln and Shield tankers... all three are very capable. My Shield/Fire tank hit 49 last night on an ITF and I found it quite durable... just a notch below my Invuln's durability. I had softcapped def to all positions and right around 45% res to S/L so I did have something to fall back on. I admit that there was a time or two when I really wished I'd picked up One with the Shield... issue 19 will be a huge buff for that character since there's 3 powers I just couldn't squeeze in.|
Originally Posted by Brakner
Agreed with Stone, Invuln and WP being top 3
I would put fire and electric equal for durability and mitigation because of BU/FE +Burn and 13 second Healing Flames against the +8% Resist and 37 second Energize + 190% regen. They both need the exact same IOs for Def caps and over 40 seconds Fires kill speed +HF = Elecs +resist/regen. I would even lump Dark in there too if you average out their extra mitigation from low ACC Fear / OG and end usage plus targeted / opponents needed heal. Maybe even add Ice and Shield in the same group, since with IOs sets Fire/Elec/Dark can soft cap s/l just like them and still have 70 80% resist to add to it. P.S. I have seen Ice and Shield tanks horribly fail on STF / LRSF and Fire, Elec and Dark breeze through it with out even a sweat. Its the total package of resist/def/hp's and mitigation not just s/l def As for the taunt auras , I agree 100% with your list. |
My only direct experience with Electric was in the closed beta when the set was ported over playing a level bumped tanker on SO's; it struck me as generally squishier than an equivalently slotted Invuln tanker but tougher than an equivalent Fire tank. I'll admit I'm extrapolating somewhat on what I'd expect them to do with IO bonuses added in.
One huge benefit of IO sets is with a good enough build all tanker sets can get really good so the order of just how good is a bit subjective past the "big 3". I have seen some WP tankers who seemed pretty squishy in the late game though... I've no idea what their builds looked like though.
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Originally Posted by Chyll
Agreed, Ice/ is king.
I'd have Invul/ right behind it - strong enough that the scrapper aura can slide aggro away from tanks that take their own aggro auras for granted. |
Of my tanks there's not really any difference I've noticed in the Invuln vs Shield on the aggro front, both grab it and hold on tight. Frankly I look at them as a tie in aggro abilities. Neither will have any problems with aggro, although if there's an Ice tank on the team good luck getting aggro away from him. Frankly as long as the Icer was running both auras I've never managed that trick. A lot of that of course is due to taunt mechanics, the first one to get aggro usually keeps it... you need to generate DOUBLE the taunt/threat in order to steal it away. That's part of why Ice is so good, with the tic rate of it's aura it gets aggro faster than anything else.
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For more than 2/5ths of their levelling careers, most tankers will not have auras. The damage auras eat fairly whopping amounts of endurance, so for most primaries I'd suggest postponing taking them anyways. This will probably remain true even when Stamina goes inherent, since you're still going to want to get it slotted with at least SO level enhancements. |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
And finally we get to Willpower... if you want to control aggro this is by far the worst set for the job. With the right secondary and with a skilled tanker player behind the controls it can do the job but it's MUCH harder.
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This is when you should already be learning to tank. Take Taunt. You don't have to control all the mobs; you just need to control the right mobs, and learning to recognize the right mobs is important.
If you start trying to tank in these levels, Willpower's a breeze. Just pretend that you don't have a taunt aura, and play like you would if you knew you didn't have one, and you will do fine.
But no, this is not the easiest way to manage aggro.
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Hmm.. I created a Willpower~SS Tanker not too long ago but I have a hard time managing aggro, the set doesn't have a taunt aura? I spam Taunt whenever I can but I'm finding it quite difficult. I'm looking to reroll for an easier time tanking as it's what I enjoy playing but which set has the better aura?
Cheers.