Lack of pets and hard controls, mostly. No pets means it never really gets easier* to solo, as you don't get the boost in damage or bodyguards.
*Your definition of easier may vary.
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I have to assume Mind control was created even before Dominator was created? And Containment bonus was invented after Mind control was created right? |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Lack of pets and hard controls, mostly. No pets means it never really gets easier* to solo, as you don't get the boost in damage or bodyguards.
*Your definition of easier may vary. |
Illusion doesn't have immb but it has two very good pets to make up the lack of damage.
What does Mind control offer that makes up the loss of damage? When they invented Containment, did they do anything special for Mind control on Controller? Because it doesn't look good on paper. In fact, it looks pretty terrible. lol
PS: Oh, I just found out Sleep and Stun give containment bonus too.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Mind/TA looks like could be decent combo..it has immb and a hold.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Mind Control is one of the original powersets for Controllers at COH Launch. Containment appeared in issue 5 as a partial compensation for the Global Defense Nerf and the neutering of controller AOE controls. In the early levels it's one of the most powerful controller sets out there with a strong single target attack chain by level 6-8; it gets steadily stronger into the 20's and then plateaus while other control sets start to take off in the mid 30's.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I have to assume Mind control was created even before Dominator was created? And Containment bonus was invented after Mind control was created right?
Illusion doesn't have immb but it has two very good pets to make up the lack of damage. What does Mind control offer that makes up the loss of damage? When they invented Containment, did they do anything special for Mind control on Controller? Because it doesn't look good on paper. In fact, it looks pretty terrible. lol PS: Oh, I just found out Sleep and Stun give containment bonus too. |
The area where Mind excels is in aggro-free control; confuse, mass hyp, mass confuse can all be used at will without drawing aggro. Mesmerize does draw aggro, but by the time it's sleep wears off so has the aggro, it could be considered a fourth aggro free control. Mind isn't really weak; it's just different. It has very good ST damage with the Dominate/Levitate/Mesmerize chain and a decent AOE damage/control power in Terrorize. It isn't Illusion or Fire but it isn't a wimp either.
My first 50 controller was Mind/Kinetic and while it isn't a killing machine like Fire/Rad or an AV soloer like Ill/Rad (my other two 50 controllers) it isn't bad. Mine has the Master of Statesman's Task Force badge (received twice on that character) and is a great team character.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Yeah, the ST-attack chain seems like it could be decent because the damage applies right away rather than waiting for DoT damage from immb attacks. But without Domination, Mind Control just seems kinda meh in the control department. |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Mind Control is one of the original powersets for Controllers at COH Launch. Containment appeared in issue 5 as a partial compensation for the Global Defense Nerf and the neutering of controller AOE controls. In the early levels it's one of the most powerful controller sets out there with a strong single target attack chain by level 6-8; it gets steadily stronger into the 20's and then plateaus while other control sets start to take off in the mid 30's.
The area where Mind excels is in aggro-free control; confuse, mass hyp, mass confuse can all be used at will without drawing aggro. Mesmerize does draw aggro, but by the time it's sleep wears off so has the aggro, it could be considered a fourth aggro free control. Mind isn't really weak; it's just different. It has very good ST damage with the Dominate/Levitate/Mesmerize chain and a decent AOE damage/control power in Terrorize. It isn't Illusion or Fire but it isn't a wimp either. My first 50 controller was Mind/Kinetic and while it isn't a killing machine like Fire/Rad or an AV soloer like Ill/Rad (my other two 50 controllers) it isn't bad. Mine has the Master of Statesman's Task Force badge (received twice on that character) and is a great team character. |
Do you slot mostly for +damage in your mind control powers or you go for a mix of damage and control enhancements?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
You see so many Mind Dominators because Mind Control benefits a lot from the Dominator's inherent Domination power. That power gives them a bigger Magnitude (6 instead of 3) mezzes. In most sets it works on about 3 or 4 powers, but in Mind Control it works in every power. Among other things this lets Mind Dominators sleep AVs during the Lordd Recluse end game Task Force discreetly.
Is it better on a Dominator than a Controller? IMO, generally, no. I have both a Mind/Cold Controller and Mind/Ice Dominator. The Dominator solos much easier, has sometime-mezz protection, deals better damage, and handles very hard enemies better. But the Controller provides shields for the team, has better stealth, much better debuffs, and provides force multiplication the Dominator lacks. In all neither character is "better," just different.
As for good secondaries for Mind, pretty much anything will work, depending on what you're trying to do. I actually think a Mind/Empathy Controller is more the kind of character many Empathy Defenders were hoping to play. Debuff sets are more popular pairings than buff ones, but anything will work if you team. For soloing Mind/Rad sticks out as particularly capable.
The only thing you should be aware of is that Mind Control on a Controller sucks horribly at soloing Elite Bosses and AVs. But there are a few other sets in that boat too. I guess the other thing to know is that getting AoE Containment is harder than some sets; whether this bothers you will depend largely on how much you team.
Because people sorely underestimate Mind. I prefer to keep it that way, makes my Mind/Kin feel special knowing that i'm only one of like, 3 on the entire server.
The reason people play mind DOMS and not mind TROLLERS is because Mind is an attack set, wheras many people have a vision of controllers as characters that don't do much besides stand back, buff/debuff, and let their pets/teammates do everything.
If you're willing to treat your Mind controller like a Blaster-with-mez, it becomes a very good character. It DOES have its weak spots... I hate Immob as a mez in general, but i have to concede that getting unbreakable AoE containment that's up every fight (that many AVs also have very little resistance against) is a strength that Mind lacks. Sleep breaks, TD isn't up every fight (unless you have a ton of recharge!), and Mass Confusion doesn't give containment. Looking at it that way, the only reason to roll a Mind character would be for concept.
Which is what I did.... and yet, I'm also the one who tanked a psi-clockwork AV when the Tank face-planted, held off Reichsman single-handed by spamming Mesmerize, and oh yeah, since Mind Control's attacks are UN-TYPED, I can hurt anything that relies solely on positional defense (Like hami mitos and anything using SR).
I've never seen a Plant or Fire controller do those things. Just sayin'.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Until very recently the lack of pets wouldn't have mattered in Siren's Call as it capped at 30. Prior to that Mind hardly lacked control especially against player targets. A few armor sets were vulnerable to Confusion and Fear or both. I13, however, replaced all protection with resistance and Mind lost the advantage of somewhat exotic mezzes. |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Lack of pets and hard controls, mostly. No pets means it never really gets easier* to solo, as you don't get the boost in damage or bodyguards.
*Your definition of easier may vary. |
I would say at some points Mind was a good set for pvp, however, it has suffered from some changes. TK, once a very good pvp power, was choked by limitations; more and more knockback protection has limited the usefulness of Levitate; as previously mentioned, changes in mez mechanics made Mind's unique mezzes less appealing. The rise of Fortunatas and Widows with their high Psi defense also chipped away at an advantage Mind control once held, that is circumventing most defenses.
I occasionally take my Mind Controller into Bloody Bay for Shivans. I certainly don't start marauding across the zone, but it does disrupt attackers well enough let me escape and go about my business.
Oops missed that this is a PVP question. I don't PVP at all so I can't really talk about it.
I run a Mind/FF, and yes, I do PvP him some. Mind is woefully underrepresented, and is quite powerful if in the right hands.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Is Mind control basically very underpowered on Controller?
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Maybe in PvP, I have no idea, but in PvE Mind Control is one of the most powerful sets in the game.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Yeah, I've only seen one higher level Mind Troller, which is Mind/FF in Siren Calls or maybe RV but that's it. I rarely rarely see a Mind Troller. I thought maybe Mind control on Troller is different from Dominator's somehow.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Apollon
I run a Mind/FF, and yes, I do PvP him some. Mind is woefully underrepresented, and is quite powerful if in the right hands.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Hmm, I've never pvp'ed much on the Dominator side of things, but a little research seems to indicate that Domination makes all mez durations unresistible. This could give a Dominator a significant edge as a disruptor. Mind could take a distinct advantage of this with the fact the holds, confuse, and knockback all suppress on different timers. A controller may have a more difficult time leveraging this as their controls would be resisted.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yeah, I've only seen one higher level Mind Troller, which is Mind/FF in Siren Calls or maybe RV but that's it. I rarely rarely see a Mind Troller. I thought maybe Mind control on Troller is different from Dominator's somehow.
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Just curious (yes, bored at work) but why is it that I have only seen one Mind Controller in Siren Call (Mind/FF) for 4 years of playing Cox on Virtue/Freedom? I see Mind Dominators everywhere but I can only count ONE Mind Troller at higher level. I don't really count characters before lvl 20.. but after lvl 20, I've only seen one.
I see Mind control doesn't have a pet and doesn't have immb to setup Containment easier.
Is Mind control basically very underpowered on Controller? It looks that way to me but maybe some of you can enlighten me.
Does Mind control on Troller have higher base damage due to the lack of containment damage potential and lack of pet damage?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.