Provoke, plus distractions. granted, i use a bot/traps, and the acid mortar and poison trap hold pretty decent aggro on their own, don't know what to tell ya about /pain.
Grant invis will lower their thread mod, but keep in mind, mastermind pets already have a higher threat mod then you do, so i'm not sure grant invis will really benefit you much, as your pets will just be on equal ground with you, instead of higher. Couldn't hurt any to test it out though, plus the added defense from grant invis will help keep yours mercs alive.
If I'm not mistaken, debuff toggles can act as a minor taunt, like darkest night in /dark secondary. Boxing has has a small taunt attached to it too allbeit single target, but it has a fast recharge (if you can afford to take the fighting pool).
As far as /pain is concerned the only thing I can see that would have a similar taunt effect to, say, darkest night would be anguishing cry with its -res/def effect - I've not really played /pain all that much so I couldn't really tell you if it is effective or not
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
Using the mastermind attacks - especially the AOE each set gets - is a good way to hold aggro. Mastermind attacks aren't the horrible things they're often billed as; the only real downside to a mastermind's attack over another AT is that they have high endurance costs, but overall endurance use for MMs is pretty low, so this shouldn't be too much of an issue. AOE attacks, Provoking, and debuffs do a pretty good job of keeping foes focused on you.
In the case of /pain, healing has a minor taunting effect as well (I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it seems to me that healing someone's target seems to count as if you had damaged that enemy by about as much as you healed) so making sure you keep yourself and your henchmen healed might help with that as well.
If you are not making direct attacks yourself, however, you're not going to hold aggro very well. Taunts are aggro multipliers, and work best if you have some aggro to multiply.
I've said it before it is impossible for a mm to hold aggro 100% of the time when 6 pets are blasting the foes. You have to use a combination of taunt, attacks and buffs/debuffs to survive without regen.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I've said it before it is impossible for a mm to hold aggro 100% of the time when 6 pets are blasting the foes. You have to use a combination of taunt, attacks and buffs/debuffs to survive without regen.
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Thats a little strange, as i can hold aggro on Giant monsters and AVs 100% of the time, and i use basically only provoke, and my traps. Things is, the 'traps' are their own entity, so it doesn't multiply my attacks by any set amount.
I solo the Ghost of Scrapyard daily on liberty, and can hold aggro off not just my pets, by just about any non tanker/brute that joins in.
Quote:
As I said its fine when there are 5 - 8 enemies because I can provoke but when it gets more than that it becomes a problem |
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Thats a little strange, as i can hold aggro on Giant monsters and AVs 100% of the time, and i use basically only provoke, and my traps. Things is, the 'traps' are their own entity, so it doesn't multiply my attacks by any set amount.
I solo the Ghost of Scrapyard daily on liberty, and can hold aggro off not just my pets, by just about any non tanker/brute that joins in. |
But yah single targets are a lot easier with provoke spam and provoke -> revolver combo -> random mace craftable to hold aggro from brutes
Quote:
Oh I see dropping separate entities with aggro + your taunt can draw 1 target away from your pets therefore what I said was wrong and strange.
|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Thats a little strange, as i can hold aggro on Giant monsters and AVs 100% of the time, and i use basically only provoke, and my traps. Things is, the 'traps' are their own entity, so it doesn't multiply my attacks by any set amount.
I solo the Ghost of Scrapyard daily on liberty, and can hold aggro off not just my pets, by just about any non tanker/brute that joins in. |
One thing to do is be sure Provoke is heavily slotted for both taunt and recharge. That lets you keep two or even three applications stacked up, which you can either use on the same foes to avoid losing aggro on things one application misses, or spread around to keep more things taunted. Provoke has a 5 target cap, so alternating it on two groups (or opposite sides of one large group) can increase that.
Also, your AoE attack can help out. I'd skip the single target attacks unless you are /FF, you'll have better things to do and they're endurance hogs. The AoE is pretty weak damage but at least it's AoE damage... you'll probably attract any enemies that are only being tagged by one pet or splash damage.
Finally, you can try going /Storm and blowing everything into a corner with Hurricane on. It doesn't really matter who they're shooting at if they can't hit them... 
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Quote:
Single Targets are very different from groups. Taunt powers basically override other forms of aggro (they don't actually override it but it's very hard to pull aggro from someone with taunt using just damage). Against a single target simply spamming taunt is often enough to hold aggro on it's own. The OPs problem is that he can't hold the aggro of an entire group.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
Thats a little strange, as i can hold aggro on Giant monsters and AVs 100% of the time, and i use basically only provoke, and my traps. Things is, the 'traps' are their own entity, so it doesn't multiply my attacks by any set amount.
I solo the Ghost of Scrapyard daily on liberty, and can hold aggro off not just my pets, by just about any non tanker/brute that joins in. |
I'm a bit puzzled, I thought that a "Tankermind" was to keep aggro off of the team using their pets as one of their tools for aggro management.
Erm..
I could try that but my mercs pretty much get 2-shotted sooo... x.x
Maybe a softcapped bots/traps,bots/ff,thugs/traps,thugs/ff,ninja/ff army umm..would fare better at it buuuutt...yah mine works off me holding the aggro for everything x.x
Quote:
Every MM is technically a Tank. People use Tankermind as a definition of a specific build where the player tries to keep the heat off their pets and rely on bg mode.
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I'm a bit puzzled, I thought that a "Tankermind" was to keep aggro off of the team using their pets as one of their tools for aggro management.
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Quote:
Actually, that's essentially the exact opposite of the Tankermind strategy. The Tankermind basically uses Bodyguard and concentration of aggro on the Mastermind to manage the damage the MM and his henchmen take, and keep it off of his teammates. The idea is for the henchmen to take no damage on their own. (It should all come from Bodyguard)|
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I'm a bit puzzled, I thought that a "Tankermind" was to keep aggro off of the team using their pets as one of their tools for aggro management.
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Using the pets to tank I variously refer to as "pet tanking" and "meatshielding". It's not as reliable as Tankerminding as you have no way to taunt foes onto a henchman. The exceptions are Thugs, who have Taunt built into the attacks of the Posse of Gang War, and Necromancy, which has a Taunt built into all their henchmens' Life Drain.
I typically am able to do a halfway decent job of tanking with my Bruiser, as long as everyone else stays out of melee, and they let him go in first. Without Taunt, though, it's not reliable enough to be called true tanking. I can essentially tank for a few seconds when a teammate gets in trouble, but it's difficult to maintain it without Provoke.
Also, to the OP, closing with a Boss and hitting him with Sands of Mu or the Nemesis Staff can draw a lot of aggro onto you when stacked with Provoke. You do not necessarily have to make a large investment in attacks to be a Tankermind. (Although it helps)
This is what I'm looking at, but I am not crazy about the endurance ratio..
Pretty much everything is capped except for Psi. You do have Positional Ranged capped which much Psi attacks are, so it works out. You do have Numina slotted so that is where the price for the build is gonna come from. Hero / Villain merit will help supplement that. I would do them ASAP so you can build them up for when your ready to slot Numina
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (7) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (11) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (21) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (5) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (37) Explosive Strike - Damage/Knockback
- (48) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
- (50) Explosive Strike - Accuracy/Knockback
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (5) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
- (11) Harmonized Healing - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (9) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (9) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (17) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (13) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (13) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (15) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (15) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (25) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (17) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (19) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (23) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (31) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (31) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (21) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (23) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (34) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt
- (25) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge
- (34) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range
- (39) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range
- (46) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (27) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (27) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (29) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (29) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (31) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (40) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (34) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (36) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (37) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (37) Red Fortune - Defense
- (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (40) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (42) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense
- (48) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (45) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (45) Red Fortune - Defense
- (46) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 6: Ninja Run
Code:
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1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Interesting build... I wouldn't have considered trying to softcap Demons/Pain. It's a lot easier to make a tankermind with a set that provides defense, like /Traps, /FF, or Bots. It looks like your heals are a bit underslotted and you skipped Enforced Morale, so I'm assuming this is primarily a solo build? If you plan to team I'd try to fit one more slot in at least Nullify Pain and drop a heal IO in it.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
How on earth do you guys hold aggro?
My Merc/Pain MM is now level 34 (thankfully) and Im soloing +2,x4 missions and I can never increase the number of players because taunt can no longer keep aggro from all of the enemies. I can push to x5 but I occasionally have problems with that so I toned it down.
So...How do I keep aggro aside from provoke? Should I get the M40 grenade? I thought about getting that (especially after reading that taunt actually gives a giant bonus to threat for attacks you do to tauntedenemies) but then I thought it would be bad because Id be scattering big groups around more.
I planned on taking Soul Mastery for the 2 cone attacks it would give me along with maybe oppressive gloom(not sure about that) OR Mu Mastery for 3 aoes but longer recharge on 2 of them (also electric fences stops kb which would allow me to take the m30 grenade)
So what do you guys think I should do? And also is there some magical aggro getting ability I have that I havent thought of?
Also! Is it true that if I use grant invisibility on my mercs, their threat level will be reduced?
Edit :
This is my build plan that I will respec to at 50
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Mercenaries
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Soldiers -- BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(A), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(3), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(5), LdyGrey-%Dam(5), Achilles-ResDeb%(7)
Level 1: Nullify Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Burst -- Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), LdyGrey-%Dam(11), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(13), Ruin-Dmg/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Share Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17)
Level 6: Equip Mercenary -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Soothe -- H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(15)
Level 12: Spec Ops -- BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(A), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg(19), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(19), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(21), EdctM'r-PetDef(21), LdyGrey-%Dam(23)
Level 14: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 18: M30 Grenade -- KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(A), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 20: Suppress Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(25), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(27)
Level 22: Tactics -- AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTgt-ToHit(27), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(29), EndRdx-I(29)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(25)
Level 26: Commando -- SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(31), BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SvgnRt-PetResDam(33), ExStrk-Dam%(33)
Level 28: Provoke -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(A), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(34), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(34), Zinger-Taunt(36), Zinger-Dam%(36)
Level 30: World of Pain -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RechRdx-I(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(36), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Tactical Upgrade -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 35: Anguishing Cry -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(39), Acc-I(39)
Level 38: Painbringer -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Static Discharge -- Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(A), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(42), Posi-Dam%(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(43), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dam%(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Thunder Strike -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(48), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(48), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Enforced Morale -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 4: Ninja Run