Ice/DB tank


Elaith

 

Posted

i built this. wondering if its any good. any suggestions. and changes. are accepted. thanks for the help


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dual Blades
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Panac-Heal/+End(A), Panac-Heal(7), Panac-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(7), Panac-Heal/Rchg(9), Panac-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Panac-Heal/EndRedux(11)
Level 4: Ablating Strike -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(11), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(13), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(13), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(15), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(15)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 12: Icicles -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Oblit-%Dam(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A), SprngFt-EndRdx/Jump(17)
Level 16: Typhoon's Edge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(45), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(23), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LkGmblr-Def(25)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def(29)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(31), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GftotA-Def(31), P'Shift-EndMod(33)
Level 28: Vengeful Slice -- GS-Acc/Dmg(A), GS-Dam/Rech(34), GS-Dam/End/Rech(34), GS-Acc/End/Rech(37), GS-%Dam(40), GS-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(43)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 35: Sweeping Strike -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 38: One Thousand Cuts -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Taunt -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(42), Zinger-Dam%(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(43), Zinger-Taunt(43)
Level 44: Blinding Feint -- GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-Build%(48), GSFC-ToHit(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Permafrost -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 49: Recall Friend -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run


 

Posted

I don't know much about /DB so I'll ignore that side for someone else, but from what I can see with the Ice/

Chilling Embrace is overslotted, you only really need an end Redux and the chance for -rech proc.

Your defense is too high, you only need 45% to S/L/N/E to survive most things in the game, you can go for that pre-EA or post-EA, thats personal preference, but at the moment with a full EA you're sitting at 70% S/L and 55% E/N, there are guides explaining why 45% is all thats needed if you're unsure.

If you want to cap E/N without EA there are still ways of doing it without all the 6-slot sets.
Try to ED cap the recharge on EA as well, its your only source of end as you haven't taken stamina, and the more its up the more it'll help you.

You don't really need that mez resist slot bonus on LotG as well, you could drop the 3 def/recharges as theres no further benefit, capped def and end redux is fine.

Taunt, some people slot it, some people don't, thats personal preference, but it seems like once again slot bonuses are being wasted where you can get them other places.

With the ice/ armours, CJ, and Weave (And dropping the 3% steadfast IO in either perma-frost or Tough) You can cap the S/L/N/E 45% relatively easy, the only issue then is if you want to cap pre or post EA.

You've also slot one of the most expensive sets into Hoarfrost, ED capping for heal and recharge is fine, and that can be done with about 4 or 5 slots max.


 

Posted

Took a look at your build. It's tough to determine where you are headed with this.

One thing I wanted to point out is that DB looks to be a great set to help with the Psi hole in Ice armor.

You have 3 maybe 4 places to put the Scirooco's Dervish set for +3.75% Psi DEF (I dont know if I'd slot it in Icicles unless my end was doing ok).

You could add tough and 3 slot it with Impervium Armor for +1.875.

Thematically, you could add two blast sets from Ice APP for a +5% (Apocolypse) and + 3.75% Psi DEF Devestation (since you are shelling out the big bucks for PvP sets).

Why not add the +3% def Steadfast....since you have the PvP one too.

And definitely de-slot some of those powers like taunt & chilling embrace + re-slot EA.

One of the other holes in Ice is the fire resistance. You could put 1 LOTG global recharge and 3 Gift of the Ancients in 4 places (Armors, Weave, and CJ). That will net you +30% recharge, 10% fire resistance, and 8% recovery. And all you will lose is a tiny bit of defense (which you can make up to get to the cap easily) and some end reduction on armors, which isn't much AND you'll be adding recovery anyway.

You have peaked my interest now....since the Psi hole is all that worries me now with my Ice toon. May have to start a new one with DB. Thinking of the theme possibilites!


 

Posted

alright guys i made some tweaks. and took advantage of the def to psi. and fire. i 2 slotted nimble slash and taunt with mocking beratment for the 1.8% max end. and im not completing this build to the new i19 comes out so ill have stamina. (inherited) and have 2 slots to slot it with end mods.. so what you think bout it now?


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dual Blades
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Rchg+(5)
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(15)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal(9), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11)
Level 4: Ablating Strike -- UndDef-DefDeb(A), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg(11), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(13), UndDef-Rchg/EndRdx(13), UndDef-DefDeb/EndRdx(15), UndDef-Rchg(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 12: Icicles -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Oblit-%Dam(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Typhoon's Edge -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(45), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(45), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(46), Sciroc-Dam%(46)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LkGmblr-Def(25)
Level 20: Boxing -- Stgr-Acc/Rchg(A), Stgr-EndRdx/Stun(42), Stgr-Acc/EndRdx(42)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ImpArm-ResDam(43)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def(29)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- S'dpty-EndRdx/Rchg(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(31), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(31), S'dpty-Def(33), EndMod-I(50)
Level 28: Vengeful Slice -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 35: Sweeping Strike -- Sciroc-Dam%(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(36), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: One Thousand Cuts -- Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dam%(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Blinding Feint -- GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-Build%(48), GSFC-ToHit(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Permafrost -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 49: Recall Friend -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayanKoroon View Post
alright guys i made some tweaks. and took advantage of the def to psi. and fire. i 2 slotted nimble slash and taunt with mocking beratment for the 1.8% max end. and im not completing this build to the new i19 comes out so ill have stamina. (inherited) and have 2 slots to slot it with end mods.. so what you think bout it now?
I'll be honest. I wouldn't touch it. I'm guessing from your reg date that you haven't had much experience in the game, or maybe with tanking. Correct me if I'm wrong. The build you've provided looks like it's gimped its usefulness in favor for its survival, when in reality, both are necessary. You're over/under slotting a lot of powers because you've focused so much on your weaknesses and forgotten your strengths.

While I commend you for obtaining so much defense for Fire and Psi, 25% def on an AT that gets so much attention from NPCs isn't going to last very long. [see Dechs' thread explaining the softcap]

This very, very recent thread here, brought up Ice Armor suggestions. One concern in the thread was Fire and Psi damage. Basically, it boils down to using your strengths to help circumnavigate these weaknesses. You have a -rech & -damage aggro aura. This aura alone increases your survival. When you take into account that you can raise your Max HP with Hoarfrost, therefore effectively raising your resistance, these two things can help buy the time you need eliminate nearby foes. And if you're in a team, there should be plenty of help in taking them down. And if things get bad, well, there's always Hibernate. And if there's still more to worry about after Hibernate, you can always drain their endurance with another hit of EA.

Your main focus should be on hitting the S/L/E/N softcap outside of Energy Absorption. Most fire attacks will have another damage component in them, and if they do, they have to check against your capped defense to land a hit [again, see Dechs' thread]. Hitting the S/L/E/N cap is extremely easy to do. There's a build I posted in the Ice Armor thread that shows how few slots you really need to use to achieve that goal. This allows you to put a good amount of resources into +HP and rech bonuses. In that order. If you focus on those three things (in that order), you'll be sufficiently hard to kill in most every situation.


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

Rylas makes some good points.

I mentioned the Psi hole just b/c I'm IOing my Icer now and could have used some of cone attacks. But it looks like you need to get a handle on the basic powers first. And I mentioned Fire resistance I think, not def.

I've never used a DB toon so I cannot comment what powers to get and slot.


 

Posted

the build does have soft cap in s/l/e/n 45.8% in all three. im new to tanks. yes, not really to sure how to build an ice tank. but i think my def is pretty good for him. and my dam and rech is enough. my EA comes back every 22 seconds. its enough to hit it twice and sap all groups end. and not have to worry about much. for av's and eb's thats a different story. but still can be done with this build i believe. Just has to be played right. I believe anything could be good with the right player.. just have to know your guys limits.


 

Posted

I'll echo what Rylas said. IMO, the danger of Psi, and to a lesser extent, Fire, is not that significant to a well-built Ice tank. You can build mitigation against Ice's 'holes' if you like, but it will come at the expense of bonuses that I think are overall more useful for most of the game.

And other than the Psi issue, the build you posted leaves a lot to be desired. For instance, you’re using primarily positional sets for a typed defense build. For an Ice tank that can soft-cap so easily, that's a complete waste of slots and influence. Obliteration is a particularly poor choice for Icicles because even 6-slotted the set is underslotted for end reduction. In addition, you can get an equivalent or greater S/L def bonus with far few slots. (4 slots of Kinetic Combat gives the same bonus as *12* slots of Obliteration!)

Your DB attacks are also a problem. DB is one of those sets where you really need to take everything, because otherwise you'll be locked out of one or more of the combos. And tanks don't even have the choice to skip the first two combos because they have to take Nimble Slash. Specifically, you'll need to take Power Slice if you want to have the most powerful combo, Sweep, available to you. Sweep also needs One Thousand Cuts, the level 38 attack, so you can delay PS until late if necessary. However, I would take Blinding Feint earlier since it serves as the Build-Up equivalent in the set.

I also have to wonder why you've used a super-expensive PvP IO, since it's completely unneeded. You can get the Steadfast Protection +Def IO at a fraction of the cost, which has the exact same defense bonus.

Other issues:

The fifth LotG slot in your defense powers is completely unneeded since you're well over the ED cut-off for defense. Drop the Def/Rchg IO from all of them.

You do not want to slot attacks with just a non-attack set like Mocking Beratement or Undermined Defenses, they won't adequately slot them for Accuracy and Damage. As I mentioned above, there are far better ways to get the defense you need.

Slotting the Numina and Miracle uniques in click powers like Hoarfrost and Hibernate is a bad idea; they will only be active when the powers are. Put aside a slot for Health and slot them there instead.

EA needs three aspects enhanced to as close to the ED cut-off as possible: defense, end mod, and recharge. I suggest 3 IOs each from high-level end mod and defense sets, heavy on the recharge.

Here’s what I would do with your build; I dropped Recall Friend for Power slice, but you could drop Permafrost and move the Steadfast +def to Hoarfrost if you prefer. I also reordered the powers a bit so you could take Taunt and Blinding Feint earlier. The three extra slots in Brawl and Sprint are to be used in Health and Stamina; remember, the Numina and Miracle uniques should be slotted in Health. My build does have lower Psi defense, but in most other ways I think it will work a lot better for you than the second one you posted.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dual Blades
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3), LkGmblr-Def:50(5)
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(7), Dct'dW-Heal:50(9), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(9)
Level 4: Ablating Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Ksmt-ToHit+:30(33)
Level 12: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(17), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(19), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(19), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(21), Mocking-Rchg:50(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Typhoon's Edge -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(45), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(45), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25)
Level 20: Blinding Feint -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam:50(27), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), RedFtn-Def:50(31), P'Shift-EndMod:50(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(50)
Level 28: Vengeful Slice -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), LkGmblr-Def:50(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(40)
Level 32: Icicles -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(40), Erad-%Dam:30(43), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 35: Sweeping Strike -- Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(36), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(37)
Level 38: One Thousand Cuts -- Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(40)
Level 41: Power Slice -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 47: Hibernate -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 49: Permafrost -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A), Empty(17)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A), Empty(50), Empty(50)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run

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My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

actually that is a nice build.. if i can i'll try out both builds. see what i like better personally. by playing it.. thanks Finduilas


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayanKoroon View Post
actually that is a nice build.. if i can i'll try out both builds. see what i like better personally. by playing it.. thanks Finduilas
Please don't. At least swap out the PVP Def IO for the Non-PVP version. For the Inf it would take to buy it, you could adequately IO many, many toons. If you do want to play both, do take Fin's advice on attack slotting. You're damage will be horribly sub-par if you don't. Sure, you'll survive as a tank, but you'll bring hardly anything useful to a team. Solo, you'd move through content at a snail's pace.

Just trying to save you from learning the lesson the hard way.


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

Just to add a little food for thought, from experience with my Ice/DB/Ice.

DB can provide some pretty decent additional mitigation via knockdown, plus theres the slows, damage debuffs, and sapping that all boost mitigation without being directly defense based. Without any special effort towards my psy defense, my ice/DB has succesfully tanked/fought psychic clockwork (memorably, as my settings were cranked up to x8 and I had only 1 teammate who then ate a few too many AoEs) and carnies/arachnos (in a more standard setting) succesfully. While you will be eating a lot of mind bullets, ice armor can be completely slow immune, so you don't have to worry about them slowing down your hoarfrost/hibernate recovery buttons like most tanks with psy holes do. The fire hole I don't find to be a huge problem because, as mentioned, fire attacks usually come paired with a damage type you CAN defend against, and while they aren't exactly great there are non-negligable amounts of fire resist within the set. KoA and their caltrops annoy me more then CoT and their firebreathing demons.