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Yeah, the concept of canon in Doctor Who is very... fluid. Just like time itself, wibbly wobbly.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I was just about to laugh like a hyena on nitrous at the first sentence, and then I read the second.
Really, this is just business as usual. Who doesn't even have a defined canon, never mind much pretense towards continuity. |
Eh, given the comment during the End of Time set (with everyone dying and being brought back, over and over - certainly not "until they couldn't any more") I'd gotten the impression that that was more a legal or traditional limit as opposed to 13, then down. (And, as mentioned, The Master had a new set granted, which just reinforces the notion.)
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It was the "End of Time." The discussion was millions dying only to be reborn again to fight and die again and again. That Rassilon bestowed unlimited regenerations would be quite logical.
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Originally Posted by Innovator
I don't think its a rule placed by Rassilon. If it was just a law, the Master would have just kept regenerating as he doesn't really care about Time Lord laws anyway. Rassilon himself was immortal with unlimited regenerations, it was a secret the Master was trying to get back in the 5 Doctors. I'm still going with the theory, that during the Time War the Time Lords were all granted unlimited regenerations by Rassilon (who was woken) to fight the Daleks. How else can you go win a Time War with the Daleks who are easily manufactured/cloned at tremendous speeds. I remember accounts by the Tenant talking about the Time War seeing Time Lords die over and over again during the war (I think the episode was the Doctor's Daughter, I can't be sure).
I expect the glib line in Sarah Jane was just Russell T. Davies leaving something for Moffat to handle..a sorta playful FU. |
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Originally Posted by Sevenpenny
I dunno if this has been mentioned previously, however it is kinda big news in the Dr. Who Universe.
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Honestly, this should NOT have become an issue now. This should have been put off until his "final" regeneration. Or at least been dealt with in an epic manner. They've basically just pooh-pooh'ed several decades worth of canon and left it at that.
Turning him into an immortal now kinda shaves off a LOT of the pathos and impact of death in the Doctor Who continuum.
He's a very British Kenny.
"Oh my! He killed the Doctor!"
"YOU BAD PERSON!" (Pre-watershed, remember?)
And then to ANNOUNCE it ahead of time? And not even in the main canon show?
Why not say "Stop watching now!" already?
Granted, the whole "13 regenerations" thing kinda went out the window after:
- Learning The Master could "steal" regenerations.
- The Time Lords promised The Master a new SET of regenerations.
Le-sigh.
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I'm sure there are a few that might be able to correct me, but as I recall, although stated multiple times that there was a limit of 12 regenerations, it was never stated (that I can remember) is that was an actual physical limit, or some culturally self-imposed limit (There does seem to be a bit more evidence that regeneration is a voluntary thing, at least at times).
Further more, in any case, we seen canon examples of getting around that already, from the Master's various artifical means, to the evidence that the Time War threw those conventions out the window by allowing them to bring back Time Lords and then (again, in the Master's case... as far as we know) give them a new "lease" on life. I don't think we remotely seen all the lingering effects of the Time War on The Doctor yet.
With The Doctor being the "last" of the Time Lords, and the fact that we see the current incarnations constantly breaking the "rules" more blatantly than ever before... it doesn't surprise me if it's simply that he's decided to pitch the whole idea of a limit.
And there's that whole "Other" thing as well. 8D
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I don't think the Master could ever "steal" regenerations just bodies. The bodies he took weren't Time Lords so they couldn't regenerate, though he did attempt a few times to give those bodies the power to regenerate by trying to take it from the Doctor, as well as attempted to take the Doctor's body. He used to do it mentally, and he once took the body of an Alien Symbiotic Parasite, which he used to take over the body of Eric Roberts. From what I gather from what the Master said to the Doctor, during the Time War, the Time Lords didn't promise to give The Master a new set of regenerations, but instead they offered him a new Time Lord body with a full set of regenerations. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
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Before the Time War, there was only one Time Lord that could regenerate an unlimited number of times, and that was Rassilon, and he took the secret to his tomb...well, actually sleeping chamber since he wasn't dead. Then they woke him for the Time War.
Still, I just got into Doctor Who two months ago, so there's not much indignation to which I'm entitled.
Really, this is just business as usual. Who doesn't even have a defined canon, never mind much pretense towards continuity.
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