Well, the main thing my Stalker ever wants from a tank is... hold most of the aggro. That's really about it. If every enemy's aggro'd on the tank, it means I can Placate and AS mid-battle a lot easier. Don't believe the rumors of squishiness--most Stalkers can survive quite a bit of anger pointed their way--but we do a bit more damage and can spread our Assassination debuff more regularly if nobody notices us. Other than that, Stalkers function pretty similar to Scrappers most of the time.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Stalker is kind of on his own. He can pick and choose his target most of the time and you don't really need to watch out for him unless he does something stupid like opening the battle with AS on a very large team and dies too quickly.
Other than that, Stalker is like Scrapper. Stalker draws little aggro from my personal experience.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
From a tanking standpoint, Stalkers are kind of odd. They don't really need protection like a squishy does, as they can survive in melee just fine, as long as they are ready to duck out at a moment's notice. What a Stalker really needs is an awareness of the situation, knowing where everything that could threaten him is, and if he's a good Stalker he should already be doing that.
What the Stalker needs, though, is someone to pull aggro off so he can make his Assassin Strikes and Criticals. So the tank is there as a distraction. You just need to hold the foes in place, so he can scope out the situation and choose the best target to strike. Plus, because of the secondary effect of an Assassin Strike, if he can hit a Boss or AV while you are holding a lot of Minions around, and he doesn't kill it, those foes will be hit with a -ToHit and Fear effect, which should help keep you alive.
The biggest threat for a Stalker in a group situation is AoEs. If lots of them are being fired off around the tank, it's likely he will be hit and his Hide spoiled. Stalkers get REALLY high AoE defense for this reason, it's something like 35% when they're in Hide. To me, this says that the best strategy for a Stalker is to choose a target, let the Tanker/Brute come in, strike and scrap for a while, then duck out for 10 seconds to let Hide come back up.
It depends on the Stalker, of course, but I would say that what you should probably do is just do as you always would, and let the Stalker act around it. If he's darting in and out of melee, don't worry about it, he's probably thinking like me. If not, try to keep aggro off of him and possibly draw away AoEs as best you can. Take advantage of the Fear from his AS's when you can, and just carry on as normal.
Note that all of the above is totally my own opinion, and I'm not really sure what other Stalkers may have to add. 
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Hopefully no one here would find this a surprise, but the Stalker is pretty much never going to make the opening attack on a team. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Stalker is kind of on his own. He can pick and choose his target most of the time and you don't really need to watch out for him unless he does something stupid like opening the battle with AS on a very large team and dies too quickly.
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He may go into the spawn AHEAD of the tank, simply because he can. But he'll stand there and wait for the tank to make his move. After the tank has aggro and has bunched the group up, that's when you should see the Assassin Strike go off.
Look at it this way:
The Stalker is your hitman, and you're the diversion. While everyone has their eyes on you, the Stalker makes his move and, using his discretion and best judgement, takes out the most important target.
And like hitmen, Stalkers all play different. On my teams, I'm perfectly fine with a Stalker who picks and chooses his targets then preps for the next battle, so long as he's actively with the team and contributes. Other Stalkers will make their big move and then jump right in next to me in battle. It all depends on playstyle.
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Not necessarily true. A Stalker can make the opening move but most of the times, they'll rely on the team to take the opportunity to get in a quick follow-up.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Hopefully no one here would find this a surprise, but the Stalker is pretty much never going to make the opening attack on a team.
He may go into the spawn AHEAD of the tank, simply because he can. But he'll stand there and wait for the tank to make his move. After the tank has aggro and has bunched the group up, that's when you should see the Assassin Strike go off. |
Example: Doms can tank. But tossing out an AoE control, even with Domination going, will 75% of the time result in the dom taking some kind of alpha strike. A Stalker can mitigate that, use their armor to pull themselves back together and either run when demoralize wears or keep fighting if the dom locks everything down.
MM can tank. But unless they do a 'Go To' command to initiate, it might result in the spawn spreading (some staying behind to shoot while others run in to hit the pets). A Stalker can mitigate that by striking first and being the focal point of the enemy's attention for a short time at the start.
For a Tanker, well there's no reason to take the first strike. Tankers like taking their alphas probably as much as a Brute does so my Stalkers will work with those teammates and just wait.
If you want to work with the Stalkers on your team as a Tanker, my suggestions to you are:
-Don't bother 'herding'. Unless that's what the whole team wants, it's a waste of time and resources for a Stalker as they cannot set up for AS.
-Don't be a strict 'leader'. Leader, meaning the need to dictate which group to go to next, which path to go to, etc. Stalkers can't be seen (most of the time), so they can be looking through areas a spawn ahead (maybe even two if they're fast). I wouldn't label it scouting, but it can be a help to find mission objectives quickly.
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Oh believe me, I've seen plenty of Stalkers going off on his own and starting to AS and then either run away or die.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Hopefully no one here would find this a surprise, but the Stalker is pretty much never going to make the opening attack on a team.
He may go into the spawn AHEAD of the tank, simply because he can. But he'll stand there and wait for the tank to make his move. After the tank has aggro and has bunched the group up, that's when you should see the Assassin Strike go off. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
As a stalker who has teamed fairly regularly with a tanker, I'd like to point out one role that is something that's almost exclusive to the tanker/stalker relationship: short range scouting.
Good communication is key, and it takes some education on the part of the stalker before he/she knows what you as a tanker need to know in terms of spawn placement.
The way it works is this: The stalker breaks off as the team is mopping up a spawn and runs into the next room. There, the layout of the spawns can be assessed and any surprises communicated. Otherwise, the stalker picks the best place to start the fight and you go to him/her.
Okay, nothing special that anyone with invisibility can't do. What a stalker can do differently, however, is direct the tanker's taunt. If you - as the tanker - select the stalker's name in the team window as you're heading to the next spawn (where the stalker is already) the stalker can go ahead and unleash the AS as you taunt. The spawn will fire their ranged attacks first, and then the placate/follow up attack can generally take another one down before you get there.
Now if you haven't taken taunt, it can still work if you - and your taunt aura - arrives as the AS goes off. The placate/follow up attack is easy then.
Things to know, however: If the stalker has /nin as a secondary, caltrops can be tossed out as you arrive too. Blinding powder can also be used without the stalker breaking hide or drawing aggro.
If the stalker is /dark, then you need to be aware that any fear/stun auras will take effect after hide is broken, so you'll have to plan accordingly.
Now the case arises that there's a room with deadly spawn placement that risks a tpk if anyone but the stalker enters. Get within range, taunt/pull through the stalker and let the stalker follow the mob to you. Then the caltrops/blinding powder/fear auras/AS demoralize can help you keep better control of the mob.
Yes, the stalker can and will put a serious dent in that boss's hit points for you, but there's a ton a stalker can ALSO do for you on the way to the victim that you can benefit from. The important thing is that the two of you coordinate. Every situation is unique.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Well, yes, but the "die" part doesn't exactly make that seem like a very clever strategy, does it? |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Oh believe me, I've seen plenty of Stalkers going off on his own and starting to AS and then either run away or die.
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Honestly, I actually tanked once, on a Stalker, when I duoed with a Dominator. It took some teamwork and strategy, but it was actually quite managable. Basically, I took the aggro to start, and let the Dominator start laying down his AoE controls. As he started grabbing aggro, I fired off my Placate and let him take the hits, while I criticalled. Then I used the extra damage to get aggro back and keep them off him while he backed away.
The issue is that a Stalker, by virtue of his abilities, intentionally throws off aggro. There really isn't any other AT that can do that. He can hold aggro for a short time, but he really is diametrically opposed to the concept of tanking.
Of course, the OP's post was in regards to how best to tank for a Stalker, and I think that's the POV I was really coming from. The Stalker will be throwing off aggro, and it'll be up to the tank to pick it up so it doesn't go somewhere unexpected.
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I like all of this.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Yes, the stalker can and will put a serious dent in that boss's hit points for you, but there's a ton a stalker can ALSO do for you on the way to the victim that you can benefit from. The important thing is that the two of you coordinate. Every situation is unique.
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cool.i only heard when ether its
A) easy map. so just heard whole mape and **** in a group.
B) thare a brute or 2 i use ice melee to slow a few minnions break them off group let brute get them for fury then stop and tank the rest.
cool i figered stuff like hit hardest target with first attack to give the stalker a nice -20 res on it so his first attack hits even harder. then move to next hardest and so on well mob is dead little u guys have a nice even bigger number.
as for /dark stalker i treat them like /dark brutes. sence i am a dark/ tank are fear/stun aura stack(? i think) so it ends up being a mag stacking effect. alwasy good in my mind.. as long as its not knockback....
noone knows how they work. they're like made of magnets or something
they just do stuff
Stalkers are interesting... And there is a large difference to team contribution between experienced/good stalkers and inexperienced/bad stalkers.
If you're rolling with a stalker who knows what they're doing and how to play their character, you probably won't notice them much as they will most likely be taking out (or taking chunks out) of the hardest or most annoying/dangerous targets and letting the team aoe down the trash mobs. It does vary by situation, of course, but if you see big things dropping out of nowhere, you can be confident that whatever it is you're doing, the stalker is playing to complement it. (to me, the best thing a stalker can do is play to complement the team, so discussing tactics beforehand is key to getting the most out of any stalker that joins a team)
If the stalker isn't so good at the archtype, you'll see them rush off into the next spawn much like a scrapper or brute, not waiting for hide, not using placate much if at all, and generally faceplanting a lot. (not discussing tactics, or a stalker that doesn't play like a stalker, will lead to lots of waiting around time and hospital runs)
Keep in mind these are general descriptions, not concrete. Every fight's different.
A lot of times a team leader can quickly find out what brand of stalker has joined, just by sending a tell or two to talk about fight tactics before the fighting starts.
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
Love my stalker always go for the toughtest enemy in the mob also very handy it the team want to get thru missons quick run thru map on hide tp team smack the big guy then onto the next misson,there are good and bad in all AT sets,and a word of advice from the team captain will put people on the right track if they don,t mind a little advice 
always welcome it myself otherwise how do I know I,m not up to scratch.
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The fun thing is that this can apply to a number of powers that don't require line of sight, such as Wormhole.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Okay, nothing special that anyone with invisibility can't do. What a stalker can do differently, however, is direct the tanker's taunt. If you - as the tanker - select the stalker's name in the team window as you're heading to the next spawn (where the stalker is already) the stalker can go ahead and unleash the AS as you taunt.
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With Burst doing 100% critical, I like how anyone on the team can group the mobs tight.. the tighter, the better! :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Basically, what you want to do here is tank, and tank hard. If you're engaging new mobs, keep a close eye out for anything that screws up your tank, and make sure your stalker knows about it.
In a duo, you're giving the stalker a free pass to placate at will, which is like giving candy to an impoverished orphan.
Often, it's not the biggest target you want the stalker to take down for you, it's the most annoying. Stuff like malta sappers, healer minions, anything that summons anything else, longbow nullifiers, you get the idea.
With a proper feeding and care your stalker can be trained to eliminate these and other problem targets as soon as you get your taunt on, making you both much faster and more efficient instruments of mayhem.
trying to be a good tank(dark/ice) by knowing my felow ATs i understand all off them but stalkers.. thares the blacksheep in many ways to me.. can someone kinda give me an idea of how they work in general and what i can do as a mian tank to help them do all they can do in a team/duo setting.