POWER POOLS ---> Issue 21 ???


Aitchuu

 

Posted

Excellent feedback !

Lots of good things for the Devs to think about.

I really like the idea of protection against your movement style of choice, and actually Leo's idea of "escaping" from an effect is very cool.

So how about "Escape Artist" Click : Free yourself from any Hold/Immob effect which is mag 4 or less and makes you resistant to Hold/Immob/Slow as well as -speed/fly/jump for 30 seconds. Recharge would be 120 seconds (or more).


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I must have gleamed over that point.

Kind of unfair to typed defense sets that this power adds melee defense and no typed defense. Pools should be equally beneficial to these types of things.
Yeah, I did try and add flavor by giving a Ranged +def to flight pool, Melee to Leaping and AoE to concealment. But only added "typed" to the flight pool. I honestly expected alot more issue with adding any amount of defense, such to the point that I almost exclusively suggested resists and resistance.

So a more fair-minded approach would look like this (to me)

Ranged, Fire, Cold, Toxic (Air Mastery)
Melee, Smash, Lethal (Elusive)
AoE, Psi, Energy, Neg (Keen Insight)

??? better


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
So how about "Escape Artist" Click : Free yourself from any Hold/Immob effect which is mag 4 or less and makes you resistant to Hold/Immob/Slow as well as -speed/fly/jump for 30 seconds. Recharge would be 120 seconds (or more).
Back when I was suggesting an Assault/Defence AT, that's the status protection I designed for it... Pretty much. So I'm inherently for this. Allow this power to be used from out of a hold, but give it a low uptime and possibly make it immune to recharge. I'd take it, believe me.

Especially if all pool powers were opened without prerequisites.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Back when I was suggesting an Assault/Defence AT, that's the status protection I designed for it... Pretty much. So I'm inherently for this. Allow this power to be used from out of a hold, but give it a low uptime and possibly make it immune to recharge. I'd take it, believe me.

Especially if all pool powers were opened without prerequisites.
I am sure that I read your ideas on an Assault/Defense AT (Which is a great Idea by the way), but must have missed that form of status protection.

Call me strange, but I kinda like the tier "access" structure to pool powers. I just want there to a be more flexible way to get into each pool, so that we dont get stuck with taking a power like "Boxing" on a Melee AT which has zero use for it when what we really want is Tough/Weave. Each pool should have 2 very different Tier 1 and Tier 2 options to create this flexibility. The ONLY reason I can see for removing the "Tier access" would be in the event that the Developer's were unwilling to address relative strengths of the majority of the Tier 3 powers(or lack thereof).

"Open" access based on level alone would be a "lazy" way out to me

Yeah I know that that comment could be taken as a "throwing down the gauntlet" to our friendly game developers, but only they can decide whether the power pools deserve a make-over or an easy fix.

Come On Devs ! lets see what you can do !
Give us more logical Tier 1 choices !
Turn those lumps of coal powers into shiney Diamonds !
Five.... Five Power... Five Power Pool Choicesssss .....(you know the tune)


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Well, consider the following: That's exactly how our powersets work - you can take any power from either powerset as long as you're high level enough to unlock it to begin with. No power has prerequisites like something in Diablo 2 would have. Pools are, in a way, more restrictive than powersets, and not many of their powers are all that impressively good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Well, consider the following: That's exactly how our powersets work - you can take any power from either powerset as long as you're high level enough to unlock it to begin with. No power has prerequisites like something in Diablo 2 would have. Pools are, in a way, more restrictive than powersets, and not many of their powers are all that impressively good.
Very Good Point !


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggis View Post
As best as I can recall the Devs have said the system can't differenciate between a buff and a debuff so to allow you to remove Buffs they would have to allow you to remove debuffs. Which they won't obviously.
What if certain Buffs, namely buffs which many folks typically complain about getting, could have the Accept/Decline option added to them. They would then function like resurection or the fortune-teller buff.

Lets make a List:

Speed Boost
???

hmm short list

Anyone have others that could be added?


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Eh, if it were me, I'd make elusive basically an exact clone of combat jumping. Only, on auto and was able to be stacked with the other jump powers.


 

Posted

I happen to come across this old post.
I may not agree with some of these suggestions. But the epics got a 5th power. Power pools could use the same love. Especially Presence. The devs have gotten better at revamping powers that are extremely rare for people to pick. The presence pool should definately be looked at if nothing else.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
Afterburner - Max flight speed for 2 minutes. (The arguements against this consisted of the ability for everyone to reach the speed cap easily enough with slotting and the fact that it can't be increased past what it's capped at currently due to engine limitations.)
No, actually engine limitations were the argument against Super Speed being made faster. Currently, Super Speed gets you moving about as fast as the game can render terrain. Any faster and you could quite literally run off the map.

The argument against faster flight was usually based in the fact that flight is already the safest travel power by far, in that you can go from point A to point B without ever being in danger of being attacked. You can also travel anywhere the game will allow you to go using flight. The cost of those advantages is it being somewhat slower than other travel powers. If it were just as fast as Super Jump or Super Speed, it would have advantages over both of them, and no downside. I think it's actually pretty fairly balanced the way it is.

Quote:
Vertical Speed - Ability to cling to vertical surface while running at SS (Arguments vs this consisted of the fact that it's not possible with this engine.)
You have to admit, being impossible to do is a pretty good argument against it. And we were told it was impossible by the devs themselves, so there's no question about the veracity of the argument.

Edit: I REALLY need to pay more attention to post dates on OPs. Didn't realize this was necro'd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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I would be happy with revamp/update/power customization of the pools.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
You have to admit, being impossible to do is a pretty good argument against it. And we were told it was impossible by the devs themselves, so there's no question about the veracity of the argument.
I would normally agree with this logic, except that we had many many years of the devs telling us that power customization was impossible, and even those rare times where BaBs would admit that it was possible he would follow it up with a very certain "It's never going to happen!". So now I have a hard time believing that anything is impossible with regards to this game.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaloopa View Post
i would normally agree with this logic, except that we had many many years of the devs telling us that power customization was impossible
This was never said.

To clarify, it was always said "we can't do that.... unless we revamp the whole power system." Guess what they did to make power customization work? They revamped the whole power system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
Apostrophe guidelines.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaloopa View Post
I would normally agree with this logic, except that we had many many years of the devs telling us that power customization was impossible
This is false on its face. The very first official mention of power customization came from Positron quoting a developer who had no red name at the time (who I assume was Bruce before he got his BABs persona), which explained what was possible to do with power customization, what would be needed to achieve that and what amount of work it would consume. Even from the very first mention, it was made clear to us that this was possible, and indeed desirable, but time and resources did not permit it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
This is false on its face. The very first official mention of power customization came from Positron quoting a developer who had no red name at the time (who I assume was Bruce before he got his BABs persona), which explained what was possible to do with power customization, what would be needed to achieve that and what amount of work it would consume. Even from the very first mention, it was made clear to us that this was possible, and indeed desirable, but time and resources did not permit it.
Ah, well, I stand corrected. However I do remember them saying it will never happen several times.

In any event, my point was that being able to superspeed up the side of a building is probably just as impossible as power customization was, meaning that it will probably never happen because it wouldn't impact as many people as power customization did. If you think about it almost anything is possible with enough work, we just shouldn't expect it to happen if that "work" is a total engine rewrite.



 

Posted

Grant Flight has been suggested before, and I find it a great idea. What has been missed about the idea is that it represents a temporary power - just like buying a raptor pack or any other temporary power. When you craft/are granted the power, you should receive an icon in an empty tray slot. If you choose NOT to use it, nothing happens.

Group Flight and Teleport should be heavily reduced in endurance cost but then applied 'per teammate' in radius, who accepts its use. This yeilds a power with speed somewhere between the tier 1 and 2 when used solo. In the case of group teleport, my feeling is the interrupt time should be significantly less than normal teleport. Used solo, this faster activation, shorter range, and heavy endurance use becomes a combat significant teleport, which is acceptable since it's the top tier power for the pool.

I suggested Escape Artist years ago when trying to split the invisibity/intangibility pool apart. The ability to slip out of handcuffs and similar binding effects is a ready made tier 1 alternative to intangibilty.

I'm all for customization - particularly the ability to set your default fly pose!

I continue to argue for Whirlwind offering a small amount of AOE and/or Slow(movement) defense. I'm a spinning mass of cyclonic energy and your plan is to toss caltrops at me? You honestly feel that should work?

And I'm even going to go against my own previous post where I said that Sprint (effectively the tier 1 running power) should behave like all other tier 1 movement powers - namely it should shut off when the tier 2 (Superspeed) is activated. Instead, I'm going to offer up that all other tier 1 movement powers should behave like sprint (though the tier 2 animation wins out). That's right, I'm suggesting the tier 1 and tier 2 can be active at the same time. Let's bounce off those speed caps and jam the endurance use throttle wide!

I continue to advocate the Swimming Pool (snicker) along with the inability to use Rest while underwater unless you take the tier 1 power Water Breathing (or equivalent temp power). If we ever want to explore the world of the Coralax, this sort of pool is a prerequisite.

I suggest the Medicine pool be retooled as the Inspiration Pool (cause really, what you're doing handing is out wakies, breakies, and greens to your teammates).

I'm all for expansion of the Pools - senses pool, manuvers pool, origin pool, ally pool, wildcard pool, growth pool, and shrinking pool. I've posted these all before and been hammered for it, but I totally agree with the initial sentiment that the Pools flesh out our characters in a way the Sets do not. In game terms, what's the difference between the Hulk and Power Man? One's green?!? NO - one superleaps and the other... wears a blouse.
And the more Pools there are the more diversity will exist.

And I don't mean to hijack the thread by mentioning Growth, so please if you wanna toast my ears on it just send me a message and allow this thread to continue on its true topic. Atlas, Talos, and Giant Monsters are proof that growth powers exist in the game mythology that the Devs themselves created. Every day we have to look at those statues and be reminded of it is another day they need to be reminded as well.


Just call me "The Pool Guy" - cause I believe that power pools are the ultimate in powerset proliferation. Fewer powers to develop and available to all.
"ADVERBS - we define action!"
"ADVERSE - we are action!"

 

Posted

I'd love for Hasten to be nerfed but it will never happen. Making hasten a tier 1 power was a bad idea from the developers but its essentially too late to change it now. The player base has become so use to it being tier 1 that it would require a really brave soul to change it now.

I simply wanted it switched with Whirlwind.. but that will never happen either.


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

Posted

Well since discussion is starting up on this again...

For the new power in speed pool 25% +recharge is too high as Quickness and Mental Training only give +20%. A Pool Power should not be stronger than a Primary/Secondary automatically.

I would reduce this to 10% maybe 15% then add the leftovers back into Hasten.


As for the Placate it wouldn't do much for most AT's in general.
I'm thinking either no Kmeter setting(Hidden) or have it cost end and require a to-hit check as Stalker and SOA Placates are Auto-hit with no end cost.Alternatively it could have an especially low duration maybe 5secs instead of the 10 the Kmeter AT's get.

this way it would be desirable for Kmeter AT's but not required.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
Call me strange, but I kinda like the tier "access" structure to pool powers. I just want there to a be more flexible way to get into each pool, so that we dont get stuck with taking a power like "Boxing" on a Melee AT which has zero use for it when what we really want is Tough/Weave.
Melee AT's really shouldn't need Tough/Weave unless you're obsessed with def/res capping. (Mine survive perfectly well without either.) Forcing them to take another melee power seems a good way to maintain game balance to me.