Why no Super Group in new area?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-09-27 21:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Neither Cole nor Scott allow independant groups of organized people running around away from their respective leashes.
Quote:
The canon lore reason is that players are already part of a SuperGroup in Praetoria: The Powers Division.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am sure this has been brought up before but what's the real reason for not allowing Super Group invitations in the new starting zone?
My friend made a new SG but he is quite pissed that he can't invite his new toons that were created in the new area. When we are in SG, we normally stay in SG Mode from lvl 1 to 25 but now we are losing 1-20 prestiges. Is this the reason? Or there's more? |
From a story-standpoint, Cole and his lieutenants as well as Calvin Scott and the Resistance, would not accept the player's character actively joining in a group that is un-related or un-affiliated with their own movements. The storyline of Praetoria is about how the player, through the Powers Division, deals with the various factions of Praetoria.
Introducing the ability for players to join existing Groups, or form their own groups, would in effect be saying the story content doesn't matter. Sorry. It does.
The canon lore reason isn't the only one, since not everybody cares about the story. There are several technical problems, such as the player's ability to change factions at the drop of a hat in Praetoria. Changing factions in Primal Earth is a huge deal, with players loosing access to their bases, and effectively being put on probation from their group.
Going back to the story, by the time the player completes any one of the 4 faction arcs, they'll have good reasons to go to either the Rogue Isles or Paragon City. How exactly would a Hero Super-Group handle somebody who is playing a Resistance Warden deciding to go to the Rogue Isles and becoming a villain? How exactly would a Villain-Group handle a Loyalist Power guy out to advance their own self deciding they could get bigger press in Paragon City>
This is just one of the massive technical hurdles that stand in the way of giving SG access to a Praetorian. How does the system handle somebody who changes sides?
And now, like the Nostalgia Critic, I guess it's time to say hello to that big elephant just sitting in the corner. I'm going to try to be as polite as I can when I say this:
If your character not earning prestige from 1 to 20 is such a really big deal that you feel you have to make a forum thread complaining about it: You have officially crossed the line of what is right and what is wrong to complain about.
Get Some Perspective Please.
Players still keep earning Prestige at level 50. Players still keep earning prestige while exemplared. Missing the prestige gain from 1-20 is not, in any way shape, form, or mental construction, a big deal.
Okay. Elephant dealt with, onwards!
Quote:
| Actually, what happens if I switch from Villain to Hero while I am in a SG? Does it mean I am kicked out? Maybe this is the reason why you can't invite people to SG because they haven't chosen a side yet? |
If you change alignments back without quitting your Group, all of your prestige, as well as rank, should still be same.
You cannot join an Opposite Group during an alignment change. If you are in a SuperGroup and you change alignment to Villain, you cannot join a Villain-Group until you quit your Supergroup.
* * *
The developers did state at the last event (PAX I think) that Cross-Faction groups were something being tabled. Implementing cross-faction groups requires massive amounts of data-base work, as well as complete rewrites to several existing sections of code. The amount of work needed means there is no schedule on when Cross-Faction groups will be implemented, and a strong emphasis needs to be made that Cross-Faction groups may never be implemented due to the work required on the current system.
You answered it yourself, Jibikao.
Characters in Praetoria havent chosen a side yet (Hero or Villain), they're effectively a third side - undecided. If supergroups were allowed in Praetoria they'd be sort of undecided groups (or Resistance/Loyalist groups or something) which everyone would leave when they left at level 20.
Ok cool thanks.
I am going to forward this thread to my friend. He was just frustrated. I guess he likes how he can find teams so easily in the new area and he is used to earning prestige from lvl 1 to 25 something.
But I can see why there's no base. Story wise it makes sense.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Ah. Hadn't thought of it that way in my focus on the Power arc. Much obliged for the explanation.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
The canon lore reason is that players are already part of a SuperGroup in Praetoria: The Powers Division...
The developers did state at the last event (PAX I think) that Cross-Faction groups were something being tabled. Implementing cross-faction groups requires massive amounts of data-base work, as well as complete rewrites to several existing sections of code. The amount of work needed means there is no schedule on when Cross-Faction groups will be implemented, and a strong emphasis needs to be made that Cross-Faction groups may never be implemented due to the work required on the current system. |
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
I think the thing getting him is less of a rp issue and more of thats 20 levels of waisted prestige his friend could have goten from his preaetorian. They should make SG/VG
1. neutral in the new system,
2. let people check boxes as to permitions
3. base it on leader alignment
(hero- good =hero/vig
villian- bad = vill/rogue
rogue/vig/prae- neutral = vig or rogue
Quote:
I believe it is the problem that, for now, SGs are either Hero only or Villain only that means we are stuck with no SGs in Praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Vr2LRose
I think the thing getting him is less of a rp issue and more of thats 20 levels of waisted prestige his friend could have goten from his preaetorian. They should make SG/VG
1. neutral in the new system, 2. let people check boxes as to permitions 3. base it on leader alignment (hero- good =hero/vig villian- bad = vill/rogue rogue/vig/prae- neutral = vig or rogue |
Since making SGs neutral makes a helluva lot of sense, hopefully it is on the future agenda.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I also suspect there may be a practical reason. The system may not (yet?) be able to keep someone who's neutral from using a Primal Earth SG's base telepads to leave to a Primal Earth zone, and thus exit Praetorea entirely prior to level 20.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Extra! Extra! Read all about it: Not everyone plays the exact same way or is under the same circumstances! Don't ask that others get some perspective and then comment from a position of a singular perception.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
If your character not earning prestige from 1 to 20 is such a really big deal that you feel you have to make a forum thread complaining about it: You have officially crossed the line of what is right and what is wrong to complain about.
Get Some Perspective Please. Players still keep earning Prestige at level 50. Players still keep earning prestige while exemplared. Missing the prestige gain from 1-20 is not, in any way shape, form, or mental construction, a big deal. Okay. Elephant dealt with, onwards! |
That's not the Elephant in the room. Some people prefer not to play the market or farm. For them, inf from normal gameplay is important. Therefore, playing in SG mode when that entails a penalty to inf is an issue. Additionally, some people prefer small (sometimes VERY small) SGs and building prestige early on can be rough. Especially if you happen to fit into both of the aforementioned categories. Perspective.
The argument from mythos holds absolutely no water once you've actually experienced the content of Praetoria. Vast amounts of PCs and NPCs alike function within one group while their allegiance is to another. Since "informing" on one alignment to the other only impacts flavor text and (possibly) role playing style, there's no reason to think an SG could not be played out in a similar fashion.
Moreover, there are other factions in Praetoria with super powered beings who are not in the Powers Division. If the "Canon Lore" demanded all super powered beings end up in one of these two factions, the Syndicate could not exist.
It's been said already: it all comes down to the mechanics of SGs. Rogues can't enter Hero SG bases, and Vigilantes can't enter Villain SG bases. You HAVE to have the same "native alignment" as the SG in order to function in that SG. Since Praetorians have no such alignment, they can't be in legacy SGs. There'd have to be new ones, but right now that'd only cover players level 1-20 (assuming they leave then) and then the SG would cease to function for them.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
There are a number of factors going on here. It is quite complicated.
1) Hero and Villain SGs are seperate. Heroes cannot be in Villain SGs, and vice versa. While Vigilantes and Rogues can be in SGs, they are still limited to their "side", Vigilantes in Hero SGs and Rogues in Villain SGs. Since Preatorians have not chosen a side yet, it would be hard to decide whether they belong in Hero SGs or Villain SGs.
2) One of the primary purposes of bases is portals to the various zones of that side. Hero SGs do not and likely will not have access to Preatorian Zones. The same for Villain SGs. And a Praetorian who joined a Hero or Villain SG would not be able to enter the zones accessed by the portals that ARE in that SG base. So he would essentially have no portals he could use.
3) As mentioned, side switching causes you to lose access to your SG. If Loyalists were given access to Villain SGs and Resistance to Hero SGs, you would lose access to your SG every time you switched sides. As this is more common in Praetoria and easier than using the side switching system in Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, it would be a much larger problem.
4) The devs have explicitly said that there will never be cross faction SGs. I take this to mean that at the very least, SGs will not be merged as the Markets were. Hero SGs and Villain SGs will remain separate, and their functionality will not overlap. (That is, you will never be able to put portals to Villain Zones in a Hero base)
5) Currently, Rogues cannot use Hero bases, and Vigilantes cannot use Villain bases, even as guests. It is assumed Praetorians would be treated as "guests" under the same rules, and thus would currently be excluded as well. It is possible that "guests" will be allowed in bases if they are "grey" alignments in the future, just as Heroes and Villains will hopefully be allowed into Praetoria in the future. However, that is not certain.
I personally feel that the least intrusive solution is to allow Preatorian SGs. These would only be available from 1 to 20, and after that you would "graduate" to a Hero or Villain SG depending on "where you went". The Praetorian SGs might coalition themselves with Hero or Villain SGs in order to facilitate the eventual transfer. In other words, the Praetorian SG could be a "branch" of the main SG. It would have its own base, though, as well as its own portals to Zones in Praetoria, not Paragon City or the Rogue Isles.
Taking the concept further, Rogues and Vigilantes might be allowed in such SGs. This might be seen as violating the "no cross faction" rule, but honestly, I believe that dev statement to mean the existing two SGs will not be combined into one overall. That is, Hero and Villain SGs will still exist, there will just be a third "Rogue" faction for SGs. This could be separate, or perhaps a Hero or Villain SG could make the choice to open itself up to neutrals. (Thus, for instance, a Hero SG could invite Heroes, Vigilantes, Rogues and Praetorians)
There will still be issues with where the portals will be allowed to go in a base, and whether certain members of an SG will be excluded from using some of them, but I think this can be overcome. It might be necessary for an SG that turns "neutral" (or that is created as neutral) to give up something. Such as, the ability to base raid, if this is re-implemented in the future, or the ability to enter and exit the base without resetting the selected missions from your side. In other words, a neutral base could be a Co-Op Zone, like Pocket D, with all the applicable effects on teaming.
You could even have SGs coalitioning together to access features that couldn't be implemented by one cross faction SG. Perhaps even sharing Prestige in some way. But all this is going to take work, and I don't expect it until I19 or even later.
I am sure this has been brought up before but what's the real reason for not allowing Super Group invitations in the new starting zone?
My friend made a new SG but he is quite pissed that he can't invite his new toons that were created in the new area.
When we are in SG, we normally stay in SG Mode from lvl 1 to 25 but now we are losing 1-20 prestiges. Is this the reason? Or there's more?
Actually, what happens if I switch from Villain to Hero while I am in a SG? Does it mean I am kicked out? Maybe this is the reason why you can't invite people to SG because they haven't chosen a side yet?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.