I did another small test on Genin's performance with just 2nd upgrade. I wanted to see if they would cycle Crane Kick more.
Well, they did but it causes another big problem. If the target is not immb with kb protection, Genins spend too much time "chasing" the target. So it actually hurts their total dps more!
With both upgrades, Genins cycle a lot more throwing stars which is fine by me 'cause I am not so sure if I want them to run too close every time. lol
So yeah, I think we'll see a big improvement if they can switch Crane Kick with something. I think it's pretty obvious that knockback on a pet is just not good. I mean isn't that the reason why they changed Lich's aoe knockback to knockdown after years of complaints? I think if we add knockdown to Genin's Crane Kick, it will be a lot more desirable. It won't hurt the dps and it adds some soft controls.
Just throwing some ideas around on Sunday...
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Or maybe switch for shiny new Cobra Strike? Does the cottage rule apply to pets? 
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
Quote:
I thought about that but that will be a lot of stuns... I don't think the dev would allow that unless they increase the recharge to 20 or something. That would work well because genin have many other attacks to use anyway. |
Originally Posted by Rooks
Or maybe switch for shiny new Cobra Strike? Does the cottage rule apply to pets?
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I just don't think the serious knockback from Crane fits well.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I agree that Ninjas could use a a bit of love.
Oni is not bad, but it would be nice if the DoT for his immobilize were compressed to two seconds because he tends to use that skill a lot. His Breath of Fire attack could use an increase from 30 degrees to at least 45 degrees, and he represents the majority of the AoE damage for Ninjas but has terrible targeting geometry compared to other tier 3 pets.
All that said though, I am still impressed by the amount of damage that Ninjas does.
I think crippling axe kick would be a better move than Crane Kick, it's immob effect would give more control to add to ring of fire from Oni.
another thought was possibly Dragon's Tail, since Ninjas lack some AoE. I know they're supposed to be the ST-l33t's of the pets but hey it's only one move, still fair.
The other thought I had was to make the third Genin a KM/ genin, as it would add a new spin to them altogether. Maybe give that one pet Quick strike and Body Blow for the first moves, Smashing Blow and Focused burst (or maybe Repuling torrent) for the train moves, and a lower damage Concentrated Strike for the Zen move. Thugs have an arsonist and Mercs have a Medic, why not?
As for the Oni, maybe changing Ring of Fire to Fire Cages would be cool. Way more control there.
I agree ^^. Crippling Axe Kick would be much better than Crane Kick for Genin. And then Dragon's Tail or Cobra Strike for the 2nd upgrade, either one would be very acceptable as a from of soft control. The third Genin as a Kin Meleer is a cool idea, but again, we would be dealing with knockback. Perhaps Energy Melee instead for the stuns.
AND we NEED a Shuriken Bandolier for our Genin to show when upgraded.
Also, Smoke Flash is the second worst Tier 7. It needs some SERIOUS rebalancing. Compared to Gang War or Hell on Earth it is almost completely useless. Hmm, how about a Group Stealth power that only works on your henchies. This is a Tier 7 primary we are talking about, here. Maybe a 2-4 min duration, recharging every 10-16 mins? Call it, Shadow Path.
As for the Mercs:
I can't wrap my head around ALL the changes that this set DESPERATELY needs immediately. I'm too focused on something else right now, sorry. But, as to the Brawl that the Mercs have, it is a rifle-butt strike, and it is one of their soft controls. If it was feasable to get rid of the brawl altogether, then I would like for their Slug shot to have a chance to Proc a stun, like Executioner's Contract has for Snipes. Also, for whatever reason the Medics rifle is different than the others and has a shorter range. I can't think of a good reason why.
Also, Serum is THE WORST Tier 7 power, period. It absolutely wiffles hard. There is no use for it at all in it's present state. It trully is a power that is only there to be ignored and skipped so you can take much more useful pool powers on your MM like Flurry or Whirlwind. :/ :/
It lasts a minute and is only useable once every 16 mins AND it crashes your Merc's End?!? Garbage. Hmm, how about a Group True Grit that is castable only on your henchies. Maybe a 2 min duration useable once every 16 mins instead, NO CRASH. Call it, Lets Rock! Or a Group Hasten that only affects your henchies. Maybe a 1 min duration useable once every 16 mins, it could have the usual Hasten 'crash'. Call it ,Let 'em have it!
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
Quote:
Drop Smoke Flash on your Oni as much as possible. It's a blast. Literally.|
Originally Posted by redtornado
I agree ^^. Crippling Axe Kick would be much better than Crane Kick for Genin. And then Dragon's Tail or Cobra Strike for the 2nd upgrade, either one would be very acceptable as a from of soft control. The third Genin as a Kin Meleer is a cool idea, but again, we would be dealing with knockback. Perhaps Energy Melee instead for the stuns.
AND we NEED a Shuriken Bandolier for our Genin to show when upgraded. Also, Smoke Flash is the second worst Tier 8. It needs some SERIOUS rebalancing. Compared to Gang War or Hell on Earth it is almost completely useless. Hmm, how about a Group Stealth power that only works on your henchies. This is a Tier 8 primary we are talking about, here. Maybe a 2-4 min duration, recharging every 10-16 mins? Call it, Shadow Path. As for the Mercs: I can't wrap my head around ALL the changes that this set DESPERATELY needs immediately. I'm too focused on something else right now, sorry. But, as to the Brawl that the Mercs have, it is a rifle-butt strike, and it is one of their soft controls. If it was feasable to get rid of the brawl altogether, then I would like for their Slug shot to have a chance to Proc a stun, like Executioner's Contract has for Snipes. Also, for whatever reason the Medics rifle is different than the others and has a shorter range. I can't think of a good reason why. Also, Serum is THE WORST Tier 8 power, period. It absolutely wiffles hard. There is no use for it at all in it's present state. It trully is a power that is only there to be ignored and skipped so you can take much more useful pool powers on your MM like Flurry or Whirlwind. :/ :/ It lasts a minute and is only useable once every 16 mins AND it crashes your Merc's End?!? Garbage. Hmm, how about a Group True Grit that is castable only on your henchies. Maybe a 2 min duration useable once every 16 mins instead, NO CRASH. Call it, Lets Rock! Or a Group Hasten that only affects your henchies. Maybe a 1 min duration useable once every 16 mins, it could have the usual Hasten 'crash'. Call it ,Let 'em have it! |
I actually decided to play a friend's Nin/Pain MM. He's 35, and I have to say, fully upgraded Ninja's do a stupid amount of ST damage. Great against bosses, and always fun to Smoke Flash a Jounin and see what attack he has up his sleeve next.
As for Mercs, they still brawl normally. All of them. They run into melee and just punch stuff. And then they get killed. That's the first and foremost thing that needs fixing.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I am not too sure how much the dev is willing to change in Ninja set.
Assuming everything else is balanced, they can at least change Crane from kb to kd. That will make Ninja users very very happy! We no longer need to watch Genin follow somebody down the next level after a knockback and we can't command him back in time and aggro more, or watch the Ninja "pause" to wait until the knocked target gets up.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Legacy Ninja Pet Powers
Genin 1, 2, 3
- +DEF (All), RES (Confuse, Taunt), +Spd
- Thunder Kick
- Shuriken
- Superleap
- Shuriken
- Storm Kick
- Exploding Shuriken
- Crane Kick
Jounin 1, 2, 3
- +DEF (All), RES (Confuse, Taunt), +Spd
- Sting of the Wasp
- Gambler's Cut
- Caltrops
- Superleap
- Soaring Dragon
- Poison Dart
- Placate
- Superleap (again?)
- Golden Dragonfly
- Blinding Powder
- Hide
Oni 1, 2, 3
- +DEF (All), RES (Confuse, Taunt), +Spd
- Superleap
- Fire Sword Slash
- Fire Blast
- Fire Sword Hack
- Ring of Fire
- Fire Breath
- Char
- Rain of Fire
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What I *wish* the Ninja Pets could be redesigned with ...
Genin
(Accurate ToHit Debuff Set, Immobilize Set, Knockback Set, Leaping Set, Pet Damage Set, Stun Set, Universal Travel Set)
(Acc, Dam, End Rdx, Heal, Immob, Jump, KB, Range, Stun, ToHit Debuff)
- High Pain Tolerance (Willpower), RES (Confuse, Taunt), +Spd
- Superleap
- Thunder Kick (Martial Arts)
- Shuriken (Weapon Mastery)
- Web Grenade (Weapon Mastery)
- Fast Healing (Willpower)
- Cobra Strike (Martial Arts)
- Shuriken (Weapon Mastery)
- Rise to the Challenge (Willpower)
- Dragon's Tail (Martial Arts)
- Exploding Shuriken (Weapon Mastery)
Jounin
(Defense Set, Defense Debuff Set, Leaping Set, Pet Damage Set, Universal Travel Set)
(Acc, Dam, Def, Def Debuff, End Rdx, Jump, Range)
- +DEF (All), RES (Confuse, Taunt), +Spd
- Superleap
- Gambler's Cut (Ninja Blade)
- Divine Avalanche (Ninja Blade)
- Caltrops (Ninjitsu)
- Placate (Ninjitsu)
- Flashing Steel (Ninja Blade)
- Soaring Dragon (Ninja Blade)
- Hide (Ninjitsu)
- Golden Dragonfly (Ninja Blade)
- Blinding Powder (Ninjitsu)
Chi Master
(Knockback Set, Leaping Set, Pet Damage Set, Resistance Set, Stun Set, Universal Travel Set)
(Acc, Dam, End Rdx, Jump, KB, Range, Res, Stun)
- +RES (All Damage Types), RES (Confuse, Taunt), +Spd
- Superleap
- Quick Strike (Kinetic Melee)
- Body Blow (Kinetic Melee)
- Death Shroud (Dark Armor)
- Cloak of Darkness (Dark Armor)
- Smashing Blow (Kinetic Melee)
- Focused Burst (Kinetic Melee)
- Oppressive Gloom (Dark Armor)
- Concentrated Strike (Kinetic Melee)
- Grant Invisibility
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Quote:
I dig it!
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Legacy Ninja Pet Powers
Genin 1, 2, 3
Jounin 1, 2, 3
Oni 1, 2, 3
What I *wish* the Ninja Pets could be redesigned with ... Genin (Accurate ToHit Debuff Set, Immobilize Set, Knockback Set, Leaping Set, Pet Damage Set, Stun Set, Universal Travel Set) (Acc, Dam, End Rdx, Heal, Immob, Jump, KB, Range, Stun, ToHit Debuff)
(Defense Set, Defense Debuff Set, Leaping Set, Pet Damage Set, Universal Travel Set) (Acc, Dam, Def, Def Debuff, End Rdx, Jump, Range)
(Knockback Set, Leaping Set, Pet Damage Set, Resistance Set, Stun Set, Universal Travel Set) (Acc, Dam, End Rdx, Jump, KB, Range, Res, Stun)
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My only real problem with those changes is whether or not RttC is too powerful for a tier 1 pet. I would love the option for it, but would it cause problems power-wise?
50s: Yumi Eryuha-Arch/Energy, Mirria-Thugs/Dark, Meyami Kitsuna-Claws/SR, Celesta Seusen-SS/Invuln, Lady Mirriella-Illusion/Empathy
Arc 503982 "Dimension Xi Epsilon 22-10" Part one of a multi-part arc.
Only person who can say definitively is Castle (and Minions) ... and I hear he's rather busy ... 
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
I haven't played these two for a long time. One is lvl 46 Ninja/FF and one is lvl 50 Merc/Storm. I was curious to see if there's any changes.
Merc
1. The two Soldiers indeed "run forward" a lot. They got rid of Brawl on Medic I believe but the combat attribute still shows Medic has brawl. The other two soldiers would run forward a bit and then shoot and may run forward a bit. It's like they can't find a spot to shoot. Quite honestly, I think they can just get rid of brawl in the soldiers. They have no business punching people.
2. Medic shoots frag grenade from rifle now. I thought he was throwing it? lol
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Ninja
1. Genin: I was read combat attributes in both upgrades just to see what the recharge for the powers are. Genin has 6 powers (which is a lot for a minion) but the limitation is Genin doesn't cycle the high damage power whenever it's up. The highest damage is Crane kick and the attribute shows that it only charges in 5s? I thought it's 8s. I haven't seen Genin cycle Crane right after 5s so I guess the shorter recharge doesn't matter. Genins cycle a lot of powers. They are constantly attacking. Overall, Genin still does good damage but too fragile.
2. Jounin: I was paying close attention to them 'cause I used to dislike them quite a bit. I am surprised by how often they shoot poison dart and then run forward for melee attacks. I've only found two instances where one of them would just shoot dart at short distance. I've also noticed that Ninja's behavior is quite different when there are less pets around them. For example, if I only summon two Jounins, both of them draw sword almost immediately and go in for melee but if I summon Genin, Jounin's behavior is a bit different as one of them may not go for melee right away. This is the same for Oni which I will talk about.
3. Oni: I believe Oni is the weakest link of the set. I am sorry. I used to like Oni 'cause I could do Smoke Flash and goto him for easy critical Breath of Fire but ever since they changed pet's recharge and AI, Oni's behavior is unpredictable. Oni has personality disorder that's put it that way. The combat attribute shows that Oni's Char (hold) recharges only 5s. I highly doubt that. I've summoned Oni alone and he only use Char once and the second time he uses is like 10s later. Using Oni alone has one more problem... which is when he draws the sword out, he doesn't cycle immb/hold/fireball.
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Ninja sets have some synergy problems. Oni is supposed to bring "control" and some damage to the set but when Oni uses Ring of Fire, the target may not be knockdown or back (Golden Dragonfly, Dragon Soar and Crane Kick), which means the set loses its "soft controls". If Oni doesn't use Ring of Fire, you would see stupid behavior from Crane kick's knockback where ninja would stand and then chase and mess up their AI a bit.
I've explained that I think the Ninja set was designed to let the pets "spread out". Basically Ninja fights better on their own than directing them to FOCUS on a single target. Crane Kick makes more sense when Genin is fighting single target on his own because it gives him control and same as Jounin's knockup and down. The problem with this approach is that Ninja runs freaking quick and they can easily aggro other groups because if a crane kick knocks the target down the next level, your Ninja follows and bang...aggro! The mob has many "run away" AI now so this makes this "spread out" approach even more dangerous.
I think Ninja has great potential but they just don't have good synergies. It's like each branch of the set does its own thing.
I like comparing Ninja VS Necro because the Necro set has a lot more synergies. Lich, while doing bad damage, doesn't have powers that causes conflict. In fact, Lich has aoe immb, fear and hold and aoe knockdown (rather than knockback). Grave Knight only has knockdown or up and Zombies don't have any controls except for one tohit debuff.
What do you guys think? A good direction in "fixing" Ninja set is to improve their synergies.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.