Quote:
I think you're making this too confrontational (especially considering our last Stalker forum showdown :P). In my first point I was just asking if you yourself (or anyone, actually) would take the opportunity to AS. I wasn't debating that it should be done, or that it shouldn't, I was just asking.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well, I'd probably use Dull Pain (if I haven't already used it) then reconstruction if I took a hard hit.
Being able to AS as a byproduct of MoG really isn't a big a deal considering MoG's recharge time and I would never use it specifically for that purpose. Thus is why I state that a set like Regen has little alternative to mid-combat ASing. Do you disagree? Because I already know you can AS during its duration. Or would you make the same argument for ASing after a Soul Transfer? It's the same thing, honestly. You put it in terms of 'technically' as well. Well, technically, no stalker naturally has access to Shadow Meld until they get the badge to get patron pools. Even then, only a Stalker who chooses Soul Mastery, not every Stalker. To say Shadow Meld is available to every Stalker regardless, is like saying Quick Recovery is available to every Brute. It's not. QR is only available to Willpower Brutes. It's an argument of semantics and, no, my Elec/Regen/Mu Stalker build does *NOT* have access to Shadow Meld even though his build could make great use of it. |
As for my second part, I was only saying that it's available to all Stalkers because, as far as game mechanics, it is. Nothing but your own builds and choices are stopping you from taking it, unless of course you haven't done your Patron arc redside. I'm not trying to spark a battle here, I'm just asking a question and stating a game-proven fact.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
The what now? I don't keep track of those things >_>|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
(especially considering our last Stalker forum showdown :P).
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But it was all stated matter-of-factly with the '*'s used more to emphasize words because bolding seems too serious and I can barely differentiate italicize (yeah, 2 semesters of typography, huh?). I suppose I could use
smiles everytime I want to emphasize a word.If you were honestly asking me if I would use MoG for ASing, though. To put it bluntly, most likely
never because, after using MoG, I probably already used AS. If I want to use AS mid-combat, I'll knock everything down with Lightning Rod or Thunderstrike then use AS. By the time all that's done, and I'm torn up is when I'd pop MoG and keep going with my other attacks, hopefully long enough for Recon to recharge and more enemies to be dead.
Quote:
I don't agree. MoG is up A LOT. It is useful for Many different applications, more for the Stalker than for the Scrapper. In fact MoG is the one thing about Regen that is better for Stalkers than it is for Scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Sadly, it takes 2.57 seconds to say that hello. 3s for Shadow Meld. Using it *just* to get an Assassin Strike off is a bad idea. Better not using AS in that case and saving those powers for when you need to not die rather than merely not get hit.
 |
Using it to get off an important AS midcombat is one of the several valid uses of the power.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
God I would kill for a level cap increase to 60....omg....that would be so nice for just about every character in the barn....
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Technically, if my Elec/Regen Stalker cannot pick up Shadow Meld without loosing access to an AoE attack, Ball Lightning, even though he *wants* to...
...no, he doesn't have access. I don't choose not to take it, I literally cannot given the power set-up I have. Kind of like a Hero Scrapper that doesn't want to go villain does not have access to Shadow Meld even if he wants it. |
Quote:
Incarnate system >>>>>>>> Level cap increase|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
God I would kill for a level cap increase to 60....omg....that would be so nice for just about every character in the barn....
|
Why?
Because we will be able to improve our toons WITHOUT throwing out our hard earned lvl 50 IO builds.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Incarnate system >>>>>>>> Level cap increase
Why? Because we will be able to improve our toons WITHOUT throwing out our hard earned lvl 50 IO builds. |
But will you be able to add "more powers" with the Incarnate System? Or just more "incarnate" slots?
I mean, the extra Incarnate Slots will be amazing, true, but if we aren't able to add extra powers also, then there will still be toons out there of mine that will be missing out on certain abilities that are just impossible to get within 50 levels.
However....with the new inherent fitness of i19, in essence, most everyone just got 3 free power choice "levels" so with hope that may quench certain toon's of mines power choice problems *fingers crossed* so we'll see
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
It's an argument of semantics and, no, my Elec/Regen/Mu Stalker build does *NOT* have access to Shadow Meld even though his build could make great use of it.
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It is NOT semantic. You can RESPEC into a different epic pool, you cannot change your primary and secondary. Only Willpower Brutes can get QR, ANY Stalker CAN get Shadow Meld once they are high enough level. This is so obvious I don't see why you're arguing with it. YOU'RE CHOOSING to take BL instead, that doesn't mean SM isn't available to you, you'd just have to respec to take it.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
You're missing my point. It's not about availability of MoG. If you use MoG mid-combat AND Placate in order to get that AS off you've just spent about 4 seconds doing no damage. AS doesn't really make up for that. You'd have done more damage just scrapping.|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
I don't agree. MoG is up A LOT. It is useful for Many different applications, more for the Stalker than for the Scrapper. In fact MoG is the one thing about Regen that is better for Stalkers than it is for Scrappers.
Using it to get off an important AS midcombat is one of the several valid uses of the power. |
If you just used it to take an alpha strike or something, sure, take advantage of that to get an AS in there too. But don't use it *only* for AS. It's wasted.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zem
You'd have done more damage just scrapping.
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That depends a lot on your primary doesn't it?
Is Spines or Elec really going to be able to do more ST damage by scrapping?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Just to say it, I will often follow Cobra Strike with an AS. That way I do sustain DPS while setting up the AS.
Of course, I have to watch and make sure the foe was really stunned...
Quote:
Fair point. It'd be close though, assuming we're talking about a typical "surround-and-pound" AV fight here you should be getting a decent boost to your crit rate from teammates. That can make even Elec's ST damage look decent. But in the case of Elec or Spines, sure... probably not all that bad an idea to go MoG + Placate + AS as the MoG will help protect you from splash damage from the AV as well.
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
That depends a lot on your primary doesn't it?
Is Spines or Elec really going to be able to do more ST damage by scrapping? |
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
I have two level 50 Stalkers.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Fair point. It'd be close though, assuming we're talking about a typical "surround-and-pound" AV fight here you should be getting a decent boost to your crit rate from teammates. That can make even Elec's ST damage look decent. But in the case of Elec or Spines, sure... probably not all that bad an idea to go MoG + Placate + AS as the MoG will help protect you from splash damage from the AV as well.
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The first was Energy/Ninjitsu. Obviously she has quite good single target damage and basically nothing AoE (Waterspout, lol). She is very survivable.
The second is Electric/Regen. Fantastic AoE, somewhat insufficient single target. Not as survivable as the Nin, but mostly does alright. MoG helps a lot, and I sometimes use it just to get a Placate/AS off midfight against a Boss.
Probably with the higher team crit bonus I wouldn't generally do that in an AV fight, but I suppose it might come up.
Not only does Regen lack defense outside of MoG, but the -Recovery portion of Electric attacks remains (afaik) the one player status effect that still breaks Placate. It was a big bummer when i discovered this.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
Semantics, mutha*****! Do you speak it?|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
It is NOT semantic. You can RESPEC into a different epic pool, you cannot change your primary and secondary. Only Willpower Brutes can get QR, ANY Stalker CAN get Shadow Meld once they are high enough level. This is so obvious I don't see why you're arguing with it. YOU'RE CHOOSING to take BL instead, that doesn't mean SM isn't available to you, you'd just have to respec to take it.
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The original statement was:
"As does Shadow meld. which all stalkers have access to."
The literal meaning of that statement is every stalker would have access without exception. When you have to add conditions like "have badge x", "be level y", "choose pool z" and "have power w", then one literally does not have access to it. If you learn the definition of 'access', it means 'the right to take advantage of' yet every Stalker is not entitled to. They have conditional access, i.e. the right to take advantage of Shadow Meld under specific conditions.
It IS semantics. Learn English.
As for the request for my Elec/Regen build, I haven't actually revised it since I made it a while back (and I haven't played this particular stalker in months...I rotate my characters, you see).
He's suppose to be built toward +rech bonuses but also a bit of defense. And I don't bother with the LotG +rech as they're usually just a pain to get.
So far, I just have the attacks (except LR) and the heals (except IH) with what their sets but he's only 47 so not all his bonuses. He's pretty offensive but solo, he can be a bit squishy.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Shadowcat: Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntkC'bat-Knock%(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 1: Hide -- GftotA-Run+(A)
Level 2: Charged Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Knock%(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(39)
Level 4: Reconstruction -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 6: Assassin's Shock -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Knock%(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(13)
Level 8: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(9)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal(15), Dct'dW-Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 16: Integration -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(17), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(50)
Level 20: Chain Induction -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), P'ngS'Fest-Stun%(25), EnManip-Stun%(25)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(31)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Run+(A)
Level 26: Thunder Strike -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Dmg(36), Rope-EndRdx/Stun(36)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(29), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Resilience -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-%Dam(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Revive -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Mu Bolts -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), EndMod-I(43)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Electric Shackles -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(48), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(48), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 0: Ninja Run
Code:
+3% DamageBuff| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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+18% Defense(Smashing)
+18% Defense(Lethal)
+3% Defense(Fire)
+3% Defense(Cold)
+12.4% Defense(Energy)
+12.4% Defense(Negative)
+3% Defense(Psionic)
+13.3% Defense(Melee)
+7.69% Defense(Ranged)
+3% Defense(AoE)
+1.8% Max End
+16% Enhancement(Heal)
+32% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+38.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
+90.4 HP (7.5%) HitPoints
+9% (0.15 End/sec) Recovery
+6.62% Resistance(Fire)
+6.62% Resistance(Cold)
+1.26% Resistance(Toxic)
+1.26% Resistance(Psionic)
+25% RunSpeed
Thanks!
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
It IS semantics.
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It's quibbling.
You have access to it, and yes it is conditional, but you still have it. You've chosen not to take advantage of it.
I never said you have unconditional access to it.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
And this was the point of the post |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
I never said you have unconditional access to it. |
you're quibbling about.It was stated that all stalkers have 'ambiguous-access' to Shadow Meld and I respond that my Elec/Regen/Mu stalker does not have 'conditional-access' to it. Since the type of access wasn't specified, I responded just as vaguely.
So what are you quibbling about now? That I didn't correct the guy? That I stated a fact (that my Elec/Regen/Mu can't pick that power from any pools he has left to pick)? Or that my Stalker went the path or Mu or something?
Being able to AS as a byproduct of MoG really isn't a big a deal considering MoG's recharge time and I would never use it specifically for that purpose. Thus is why I state that a set like Regen has little alternative to mid-combat ASing. Do you disagree? Because I already know you can AS during its duration. Or would you make the same argument for ASing after a Soul Transfer? It's the same thing, honestly.
It's an argument of semantics and, no, my Elec/Regen/Mu Stalker build does *NOT* have access to Shadow Meld even though his build could make great use of it.