Fire/Shield All Swords Concept Build Improvements?

Werner, I know you're making this build to be outfitted on your character in the here and now, but are you interested in making an I19 version of this build?

It's incredible the stuff you can add and rearrange with extra power picks and power slots!

Y'know, since this is a Defense based character, he could also put in an unslotted Aid Self with one level 50 Heal IO and that would be a 30% heal right there backed by tons of Global Recharge and of course, the Defense to protect it from Interruption. It might not be in-character, but damn if that doesn't sound excellent for extra survivability.

If only mids worked on my PC, my in-game build meets most requirements, and uses FS-INCIN-GFS with FSC with a -res proc and also fireball

Will see if i can sort something out mate.

Well, as PrincessDarkstar pointed out in another thread (thank you, PrincessDarkstar ), Mids' is calculating the DDR incorrectly. It looks like it's simply completely failing to take ED into account when calculating DDR. I calculated my actual DDR manually, and it came to only 78.2% DDR instead of being capped.

So I guess I need to drop back and punt on the build, and it's just unfortunate that I've already respecced and it's about 2/3 slotted already.

I THINK I'm going to do a pretty minimal change - swap One with the Shield for Grant Cover. Luck of the Gambler in Deflection moves to Grant Cover, Gladiator's Armor in One with the Shield moves to Deflection. Lose the Positron's Blast proc from Fire Ball, slot another L53 Enzyme in Deflection.

Battle Agility: 38.3% + 38.3% + 15.94% + 15.94% + 25.5% = 133.98% enhancement before ED, 56%+(0.15%*(133.98%-60%)) = 67.097% enhancement after ED, DDR is 13.8% * (100% + 67.097%) = 23.06% DDR
Active Defense: 38.3% + 23% + 23% = 84.3% enhancement before ED, 56%+(0.15%x(84.3%-60%)) = 59.645% enhancement after ED, DDR is 17.3% * (100% + 59.645%) = 27.62% DDR
Grant Cover: 13.84% DDR

Total = 23.06% + 2*27.62% + 13.84% = 92.14% DDR

So still not entirely there, but not necessarily worth using additional slots. Well, I could lose 10% regeneration and 15 hit points, go with two Enzymes in Combat Jumping, and stick another Membrane in Active Defense.

Active Defense: 38.3% + 3*23% = 107.3% enhancement before ED, 56%+(0.15%x(107.3%-60%)) = 63.095% enhancement after ED, DDR is 17.3% * (100% + 63.095%) = 28.22% DDR.

That won't be enough, and I doubt an Enzyme would be enough either:

Active Defense: 2*38.3% + 2*23% = 122.6% enhancement before ED, 56%+(0.15%x(122.6%-60%)) = 65.39% enhancement after ED, DDR is 17.3% * (100% + 65.39%) = 28.61% DDR.
Total = 23.06% + 2*28.61% + 13.84% = 94.12% DDR

So, not quite there, but pretty close. Not sure how happy I am with it, though, since I've lost a lot to get there. Anyway, here's THAT build:

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Hey werner,

I'm currently at work, but I'm gonna take a swing at improving your build when i get some spare time (pretty much tomorrow morning) I'm pretty decent at looking outside of the box, and i know all about maximizing things just because you can. You still lookin for outside advice, or are you tired of tossing respecs at this toon?

Well, this is something completely different...

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Fire Sword Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Hectmb-Dam%(5)
Level 1: Deflection RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(34), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(39)
Level 2: Battle Agility RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RedFtn-Def(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 4: True Grit Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 6: Build Up GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(7), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(7), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(9), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(9), GSFC-Build%(11)
Level 8: Hurdle Jump-I(A)
Level 10: Active Defense HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(13)
Level 14: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(46)
Level 16: Against All Odds EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Health Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(19)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 22: Fire Sword Circle Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(23), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Armgdn-Dam%(25), FotG-ResDeb%(27)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Boxing Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 28: Tough Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(29), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Aegis-ResDam(33)
Level 30: Weave LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Def(31)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 35: Shield Charge Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 38: One with the Shield S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(43)
Level 41: Char UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(42), UbrkCons-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 2: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 1: Health Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina Empty(A)



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Your soft-capped, you can do your attack chain of FSC->FS->GFS->FS, but I'm not sure on the end usage, Not too sure on the DDR either, its saying 51%, but thats without double stacking active defense, so im guessing about 77% give or take, just under your needed.

Your accuracy should be good enough to smack +4 minions around, i'm not sure about much higher then that, and i got a little more recharge outta it. Let me know what you think.

Well, I certainly like having more recharge, but I should check the issues you noted.

Let's see. Looks like we're now burning about 1.00 EPS when using the sword chain, which is just too fast. I can drop the Fury of the Gladiator for an endurance in Fire Sword. That drops it to 0.73 EPS. Needs more. Hmmm, guessing a Panacea in Health will do better than the Miracle. Yeah, down to 0.61 EPS. Not seeing an obvious candidate for improving it further, but there's probably something.

DDR, well, need to calculate that manually due to the Mids' bug. Battle Agility is 86.06% defense enhancement before ED, so 56%+(0.15%*(86.06%-60%)) = 59.91% after ED, so 13.8% * (100% + 59.91%) = 22.07% DDR. Active Defense is 45.4% enhanced, so 17.3 * (100% + 45.4%) = 25.15%. So the total DDR is 22.07% + 2 * 25.15% = 72.37%, so down about 6%. Still maybe OK, but losing more than I wanted. Another slot would fix it if I could find a slot.

Accuracy is down a bit too, now at 89% against +4s. It's not bad, but I was shooting for 95% or higher.

Let's see, what else do we have. It's actually soft-capped now instead of just very close. That's nice. Resistance is very similar. Regeneration is the same. Hit points are down a hair. It's a little more affordable, but that's a non-issue.

Hmmm, might be able to get that slot to fix the DDR by using Basilisk's Gaze instead of Unbreakable Constraint. Recharge drops back to what it was before, though that's still enough for the chain. Ranged defense rises a bit, which we might be able to trade somehow for something. But really, a little extra recharge was most of what the new build had going for it. Also, I totally broke the accuracy. So I probably should have kept the Unbreakable Constraints. Hmmm.

Well, it's something to play with, anyway. Thanks.

Lets see here... I fiddled around with it some more, using your improvements, and taking staring at it intently for a good 20 mins, and i think i got something.

I do think your factoring the acc a little weird though, my numbers are getting me over 95% vs +4s...

Using our oh so famous Attack Mechanic equation, I'm getting these numbers

HitChance=AccMod * (Basetohit + tohitmod - Defmod)

Accmod = AccOfPower * (1.0 + SlottedAcc + GlobalAcc)

Basetohit to hit a +4 is 39% or .39
Tohitmod = 6% or .06 from kismet IO

Fire sword = 1.00 acc
Fire Sword Circle = 1.00 acc
Greater Fire Sword = 1.20 acc

Global Acc bonuses = 69% or .69
Acc slotted in Fire Sword = 59.62% or .5962
Total AccMod = 2.2862
Acc slotted in Fire Sword Circle = 59.62% or .59.62
Total AccMod = 2.2862
Acc slotted in Greater Fire Sword = 43.43% or .4343
Total AccMod = 2.54916

Kismet 6% IO = 6% Tohit

so our chance tohit against a +4 would look something like this:

Fire Sword = 2.2862 * (.39 + .06)
= 2.2862 * .45
= 1.02876 = 95% tohit (due to clamps)
Fire Sword Circle = 2.2862 * (.39 +.06)
= 2.2862 * .45
= 1.02876 = 95% tohit (due to clamps)
Greater Fire Sword = 2.54916 * (.39 + .06)
= 2.54916 * .45
= 1.147122 = 95% tohit (due to clamps)

Or atlest according to my math. I've never really trusted mid's when it comes to that.

The only thing i don't like about this build is ranged is just near the cap, and not quite there, but i think i kept everything else about the same.. Except i gave you more recharge, cuz well, recharge is awesome. And i stole a slot from hasten, which really just reduces the recharge on it by 2.9 seconds compared to your original build.

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Sorry for the delay. I've been busy, and this is the first I've gotten to look at it.

I've been relying on Mids' to calculate the accuracy, and just plugging in a Base ToHit of 39. Let's see if I can duplicate Mids' numbers on your latest build for Fire Sword:

To hit is 39% + 6% (kismet) = 45%
Accuracy is 100% base + 59.62% slotting + 54% global = 213.62%
Chance to hit is 45% * 213.62% = 96.129% (capped at 95%)

Mids' reports 96.1% for the same attack. Seems like it's working fine.

I like the direction you're going with the Aegis and Red Fortune, and I can live with 44.92% ranged defense if it comes to it. You'd already gotten me thinking in that direction, and I'd been mulling over how to slot it in my head for a couple days, and just haven't gotten back to Mids' to look.

I think going to two slots in Hasten may have been a mistake, though. This is overly simplistic, but let's think about average recharge. In my "current" build, Hasten is up for 120 seconds and down for 5.58 seconds (plus time spent casting Hasten). When up I have 162.5% global recharge, when down I have 92.5% global recharge. The average is 159.39% while not casting Hasten. In your build, Hasten is up for 120 seconds and down for 9.22 seconds (plus time spent casting Hasten). When up, you have 170% global recharge, when down you have 100% global recharge. The average is 165.00% global recharge. That's not as bad as I expected, but the difference is 5.61% instead of 7.5%. But yeah, the third slot in Hasten is just a nice to have in your build, not a gotta have.

Less overly simplistic, though, we have to think about what it's doing for me. It's not helping the sword chain. It IS getting me my supplementary AoE attacks and Build Up faster. It's giving me a little more time to trigger Active Defense. So mostly it's about doing a little more damage. But we've lost the procs in Fire Sword Circle and Fire Ball. Since I was estimating 10 DPS from the Fury of the Gladiator proc alone, I suspect that at best we're breaking even on damage, and possibly not even that. But suspecting isn't knowing, and I suspected wrong on your global recharge trade offs. So I'll file that away for further thinking.

Yeah, I'd considered Basilisk's Gaze to save a slot and get some more defense, but had trouble fitting it in without compromising accuracy, so I need to see how you worked that out. Oh, you didn't! The build doesn't NEED that last 10% accuracy bonus! Good grief, I feel stupid now for shying away from that trick. It's perfect. It's also EXACTLY what I need in the build I was mulling over in my head, which I've now done in Mids'. It was just slightly short on both slots and defense.

OK, let's see how the one I was working on (inspired by what you did before, and fixed by what you did most recently) compares to your most recent.

Defense: Soft capped or close enough either way
Resistance: Very comparable
Net endurance loss with sword chain: 0.43 (no grant cover) or 0.59 (grant cover, too high) vs. 0.67 yours (too high)
Regen: 16.7 HPS mine vs. 17.6 HPS yours
Hit Points: same on both, 2022
DDR: same on both, 77%, but mine can add grant cover situationally to get to 91%
Accuracy: same on both, 96% and up
Global Recharge: 162.5% mine vs. 165% yours (time averaged)

Both are very similar builds at this point. Both are there or very close on the must haves, with minor endurance issues on yours, and on mine if I'm running Grant Cover. Down on the nice to haves, mine is closer to 95% DDR, at least situationally. Neither is quite as fast on Build Up or the Fire Ball chain as I'd like. Yours has Super Jump, which mine sacrificed to pick up Grant Cover. Mine probably has 5% or so higher damage output due to the Fury of the Gladiator proc, though the advantage is tempered somewhat by the slightly faster recharge on critical powers. Mine's a little closer to perma Hasten, but that's probably immaterial. Both have One with the Shield, but yours gets a few more points of resistance out of it.

Yeah, very comparable, slight advantages either way. I'm leaning towards mine, but have to credit you with most of the modifications.

Next question would be if it's worth a respec. At this point, what I'm thinking is stick with the "current" build for I18, then upgrade using these ideas in I19 when I have to respec anyway and they'll almost certainly hand out freespecs. On the other hand, the improved build lets me sell a purple set, and I haven't bought the Shield Wall yet, and it requires two fewer level 53 Enzymes. It also soft caps even with level 50 Enzymes, so I can just put in some long term bids and have the build "finished" sooner. Maybe I really SHOULD switch. Looks like I could be done sooner and be better, and I've got plenty of veteran respecs.

So, I've got some thinking to do. Thank you VERY much for your help. And here's the build I'm considering. Or still fiddling with. Or whatever.

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Great builds as usual guys. Wern, if you go with any of these builds, let me know how they are on end usage when you're using your aoe's. From my experience, when you start spamming your aoes, especially FSC and fireball, both of which will be up a lot, you might want more end red in each of those attacks, unless you don't mind dropping blues.

one other trick that you can use to get the last bit of defense you want is to run both CJ and hover at the same time. with the vastly increased speed of hover, it's no longer a problem to move around in combat and the endurance drain is not that much.

something like this might have to wait until I19 but maybe worth considering at that point

Let's see, comparing the most recent to what I'm currently building towards:

Defense: comparable
Resistance: 3.8% better smashing/lethal, 1.2% worse fire/cold
Endurance: same
Regen: 2 HPS lower
Hit Points: 30 HP lower
DDR: up to 91% from 78% when running Grant Cover
Accuracy: lower, but still capped against +4s
Global Recharge: 3.1% higher (time averaged)
Super Jump: goes away

So better DDR, very slightly more damage output from higher recharge, no Super Jump (but I can easily pick up a travel power in I19). Hmmm, I just don't know if it's worth a respec. But posting this as a way to store the differences for me to reference as I continue thinking about it.

Well Werner, after comparing and looking over your two builds im thinking the only change i would make would be to move the steadfast res/def to One with the shield instead of in deflection. Here are the numbers, just so you can take a look. I personally think it'll be a good trade off for 1 slot move.

Without Deflection having the res/def, and One with the shield having it.
Lethal/smash 32%, with one with the shield active, 57.4%
Nrg/Neg resistance with one with the shield active, 27%
Fire/cold with one with the shield active, 35.8%
Toxic with one with the shield active, 27%

With Deflection having the res/def, and One with the shield not having it.
Lethal/smash 33.4%, with one with the shield active, 55.9%
Nrg/Neg with one with the shield active, 25.5%
Fire/cold with one with the shield active, 34.3%
Toxic with one with the shield active, 25.5%

And thats all i could come up with. It looks like a pretty solid build we've managed to come up with.

Now, looking towards the future, at issue 19, i think i've come up with a decent build for ya. Its basically what you already had, plus hover, fly, and melt armor. Melt armor isnt slotted for much, but i'm thinking if you throw melt armor just before you throw a fireball, or shield charge, it'll make your AoEs do much more damage for the duration its up. and it stacks with your -res proc in fire sword circle. Oh, and i got your some more slow resist, cuz be slowed down is kinda annoying.

Oh, i was also able to make it slightly more end manageable with grant cover going. Should offset the end usage you'll be using from melt armor, so it'll just balance out with more damage potential.

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Ok I must be a bit slow...how did you get the stamina down below for Mids? I know its coming in I19 (whenever that is) but I was wondering...and wow..thats awesome

its a modified version of mids, that allows for slotting of inherent fitness. Its not official, but i did find it off the forums, so its here somewhere.

OK, I did another respec. I figured it was worth it, even if the differences are small. Slightly better combat performance for probably a couple billion cheaper seems like a no brainer, particularly since the influence isn't all spent yet, and I want to get this built and running as soon as possible without paying total buy-it-nao prices.

I compared survivability scores with the Steadfast Protection in Deflection vs. One with the Shield, and they were dead even at 517 vs. 516. I prefer more consistent performance, so I stuck it in Deflection. That's not an AV soloing score by any means, primarily due to lack of regeneration and healing, but not a problem since I plan to use inspirations most of the time.

Now to fix my bids and put the junk I no longer need up for sale.