Graphics slowdown after updating ATI drivers


Father Xmas

 

Posted

I updated the drivers for my video cards yesterday to the most recent (Catalyst version 10.7, Catalyst Control Center 2010.0706.2128.36662.) Which was all well and good... until I logged back into CoH and found that my framerate was abysmal. I turned on showfps to find that it was hovering right around 10 FPS. Just prior to installing the new drivers, I was getting much, much better framerates with these settings.

And this wasn't in Praetoria with a thousand people around or something--it was at 7 AM in Founder's Falls, without a soul in sight, and it followed me to every zone I went to, including after I restarted the game. There was also nothing processor-intensive happening--I checked Task Manager, and the only thing doing much at all was CoH itself.

I'm reluctant to roll back to the previous drivers, since I suspect some BSoDs I was having were due to those, but I'd also like to make sure I'm not missing something obvious before I go turning my graphics down to Pac Man levels. Any ideas?

Below are my CoH Helper and Hijack This logs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoH Helper
---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.2.0.2---

DxDiag gathered at August 20, 2010 08:11 (-05:00)
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_gdr.100618-1621)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: Rampage Formula
BIOS: BIOS Date: 07/10/08 18:03:14 Ver: 08.00.12
Central Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8600 @ 3.33GHz (2 CPUs), ~3.3GHz
Memory: 4096MB
.Net Memory Report: 2569MB out of 4095MB available
Page File: 6357MB (1830MB currently in use)
C Drive: (WDC WD10EACS-22D6B0 ATA Device) 637770MB out of 953866MB (66%) free
F Drive: (WDC WD5000AAJS-22YFA0 ATA Device) 380437MB out of 476937MB (79%) free
D Drive: (HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22LP20 ATA Device) zero-size drive
E Drive: (HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22LP20 ATA Device) zero-size drive
Windows directory location: C:\Windows
DirectX: DirectX 11
DirectX Diag version: 6.01.7600.16385 (64-bit version)

Display Notes: No problems found.

No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.

No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.

Monitor:
Monitor's Max Resolution: (blank)
Video Device Name: ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
Manufacturer / Chip: ATI Technologies Inc. / ATI display adapter (0x9442)
Video Memory: 3824 MB
Driver Version: 8.753.0.0
Driver Date: 7/6/2010 8:53:20 PM
Driver Language: English

Monitor:
Monitor's Max Resolution: (blank)
Video Device Name: ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
Manufacturer / Chip: ATI Technologies Inc. / ATI display adapter (0x9442)
Video Memory: 3824 MB
Driver Version: 8.753.0.0
Driver Date: 7/6/2010 8:53:20 PM
Driver Language: English

Sound Device Description: Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi)
Driver File: ctaud2k.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.1373
Driver Date: 6/4/2009 2:49:08 AM

Sound Device Description: SPDIF Out (Creative SB X-Fi)
Driver File: ctaud2k.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.1373
Driver Date: 6/4/2009 2:49:08 AM


WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: ASUSTeK Computer INC.
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: Rampage Formula
Motherboard Version: Rev 1.xx
BIOS Manufacturer: American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS Name: BIOS Date: 07/10/08 18:03:14 Ver: 08.00.12
BIOS Version: A_M_I_ - 7000810
BIOS Release: 20080710000000.000000+000


Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1280x972
3D Resolution: 1280x972 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: No
Maximized: Yes
Screen Position: 0, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: Yes


Physics Quality: High
Maximum Particles: 50000
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No


Anti-aliasing: 4x
Anisotropic Filtering: 4x
Texture LOD Bias: Smooth
Water Effects: Ultra quality
Bloom: 1.000 (turned off)
Depth of Field Enabled: No
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: Yes
Shader Detail: High


World Texture Level: Very High
Character Texture Level: Very High
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 1.000
Entity Detail Level: 1.000
Shadows Enabled: Yes
Shadow Mode: Unknown (4)
Shadow Map Shader: High quality
Environmental Reflections: High quality
Advanced Occlusion Settings: Yes
Ambient Occlusion: High quality
Occlusion Strength: Strong
Blur: Trilateral
Ambient Resolution: Quality


Gamma Correction: 1.000
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: Yes
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: No
Close Suppression Range: 3.000
Show Advertisements: Yes

Audio Mode: Performance
3D Audio: No
FX Sound Volume: 0.302
Music Sound Volume: 0.000

Show Advanced Graphics Options: Yes
Overall Graphics Quality: 0.500
Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
Transfer Rate: 485168 bytes/second
Current Game Version: 1850.201007290124.19T2
Installation Directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\City of Heroes

Mod files in the Data directory
No modifications found
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hijack This
Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.4
Scan saved at 8:44:32 AM, on 8/20/2010
Platform: Windows 7 (WinNT 6.00.3504)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v8.00 (8.00.7600.16385)
Boot mode: Normal

Running processes:
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C:\Program Files (x86)\Lavasoft\Ad-Aware\AAWTray.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\mIRC\mirc.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Trend Micro\HiJackThis\HiJackThis.exe

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O10 - Unknown file in Winsock LSP: bmnet.dll
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--
End of file - 8997 bytes


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

Also--I just remembered that the ATI driver updates like disabling Crossfire afterward, and I checked to make sure that hadn't happened. Crossfire's on, alive and well.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelenar View Post
Also--I just remembered that the ATI driver updates like disabling Crossfire afterward, and I checked to make sure that hadn't happened. Crossfire's on, alive and well.
Crossfire support won't do anything for City of Heroes. The game doesn't support multi-gpu rendering modes.

That being said, 10.7 has some known performance regressions on OpenGL on certain graphics cards. File a bug for your system through Catalyst Crew Feedback: http://www.amd.com/us/CatalystCrewSurvey


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
That being said, 10.7 has some known performance regressions on OpenGL on certain graphics cards. File a bug for your system through Catalyst Crew Feedback: http://www.amd.com/us/CatalystCrewSurvey
Is there a recommended OpenGL benchmarking program I could use to test if the performance still sucks outside of CoH?


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

I can think of two off hand.

Furmark which will stress any card.

GL Excess is somewhat old, haven't tried it recently.

Oh and thinking about it, UNiGiNE benchmark programs support both Dx and OpenGL.


Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components

Tempus unum hominem manet

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
Oh and thinking about it, UNiGiNE benchmark programs support both Dx and OpenGL.
I prefer Unigine since it's "written" like a real game... which it would be because it is a real game engine.

With 10.7 I have a huge slowdown in OpenGL on my own RadeonHD 4850's when compared to the DX10 renderer. I don't get that slow down on the 5770's I have on hand. On those, the DX10 and OpenGL renderers post pretty much the same scores at the same resolutions.


 

Posted

Yep, looks like that's the issue. I benchmarked in Unigine, and my average FPS was 51 for DX11 versus 17.5 for OpenGL. Guess I'll just need to wait for ATI to release an update. Thanks for the help, folks.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelenar View Post
Yep, looks like that's the issue. I benchmarked in Unigine, and my average FPS was 51 for DX11 versus 17.5 for OpenGL. Guess I'll just need to wait for ATI to release an update. Thanks for the help, folks.
If you know where to look, you can find the 10.8 Beta drivers.


 

Posted

COUGH. Wrong link JS.

Those are for the professional gfx cards.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm View Post
COUGH. Wrong link JS.

Those are for the professional gfx cards.
nope. As usual, you would be completely wrong. First: AMD's driver program is a unified driver. They use the same binary driver for both OpenGL and DirectX API support. If you do a check through the AMD support site, you'll find that the binary signature on the the drivers to be the same.

Second: AMD has been working on the OpenGL driver for a while now, and the FirePro driver beta is where the OpenGL driver changes are going to show up first.

http://www.overclock.net/ati-drivers...ta-8-76-a.html

Do us a favor TCS, stay out of the Tech Issue forum.

* * *


For the benefit of people coming along and reading this later, there is a good reason why AMD doesn't certify every binary release of Catalyst as a Workstation Driver. Although they share the same source code, as well as the same binary code, the actual processing on the cards works a bit differently. For background data on the differences several sites, such as Anandtech, address the differences between the types of rendering: http://www.anandtech.com/show/1575

Most commercial games leverage the graphics card for Fast-Pass rendering. What this means is that the graphics card does as much work as possible in one cycle while getting the image as close to the desired result as possible. In fast-pass rendering methods developers often settle for less than perfect rendering results, such as aliasing (jagged edges), or rough textures (no anistropic filtering).

Most commercial rendering packages, such as Maya or Autocad, leverage the graphics card for Accurate-rendering. What this means is that the program doesn't care about managing a certain number of frames per second. The program cares about making the rendered image as accurate as possible, regardless of the amount of time it takes to actually render the scene. Which is why whenever a new Pixar or Dreamworks CGI movie comes out you'll hear about the hundreds of thousands of rendering hours that went into the creation of the content.

In the past Workstation Graphics cards used to be built physically different from Desktop Graphics cards. Names like Maxtrox, 3Dlabs, and SGI ruled the Workstation market.

Starting back with... I want to say ATi on the R200W (Radeon 8500), and Nvidia on the NV10 (original Geforce), these two vendors have largely re-wrapped their desktop chips with higher memory counts, larger bus-widths, and put them on the market as professional graphics cards. A few years back, both vendors started to unify their driver teams, using the same source code for the same binary driver release, and yes, at one point the FireGL driver was separate from the fast-pass performance driver for both cards. Since at least... I want to say 2004 but I could be wrong... ATi has been shipping the performance driver and the workstation driver in the same FireGL / Radeon X package.

Which is where we get back to the FireGL driver certification.

Users who buy Workstation Cards do so for two reasons: guaranteed performance :: guaranteed support

Users buying professional workstation equipment expect a minimum level of performance that will always be delivered, and want somebody to throttle if that performance is not delivered. What AMD basically does is schedule their Certified Frglx release around, about every 3 months. They use this extra-time between releases to run a far more comprehensive battery of tests than those required to meet WHQL certification, and to make sure their driver is as stable as possible against a small number of rendering applications. That way they can turn around and tell the buyers of the professional cards that: "yes, your card will work with this driver in that application exactly as you expect it will."

Unfortunately, this support method in the past terrified ATi desktop consumers since ATi has been known to play around with OpenGL support between Professional Driver releases. I suspect this is what has happened with 10.7. Somebody was fiddling around with the OpenGL driver in preparation for the upcoming revamp in 10.8. It only "largely" affects CoH and Unigine since these are the only two commercially released applications that leverage OpenGL 3.x for fast-past rendering.

This is where we get into the standard code rant, and where TCS just annoys the living daylights out of me. The OpenGL driver is the OpenGL driver. Changes to one part of the driver, no matter how well intentioned, can have effects in other parts of the driver. So while somebody on the coding side could make a change that they think will improve accurate-pass rendering performance by 10%, they could have accidentally sent fast-pass rendering performance into the gutter.

Anybody whose been playing City of Heroes for a lengthy amount of time can tell you the number of times the developers have fixed one feature, only to have a completely different feature that should in no way be affected... break. (*cough, STF TOWERS, cough*)

Now, should you be running the Workstation Driver betas anyways? Probably not. This year has seen AMD of trying a semi-new policy of getting preview and beta release drivers into consumers hands before the official product actually launches. E.G. the public 10.4 beta, the OpenGL 4.0 preview driver, the 10.7 OpenGL 2.0 ES certified driver, and now the OpenGL revamp driver.

Hopefully this explains to anybody who was curious why AMD (and Nvidia for that matter) retain different driver releases for their workstation and consumer graphics cards, despite those drivers sharing the same source code and binary formats.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
nope. As usual, you would be completely wrong. AMD has been working on the OpenGL driver for a while now, and the FirePro driver beta is where the OpenGL driver changes are going to show up first.

http://www.overclock.net/ati-drivers...ta-8-76-a.html

Do us a favor TCS, stay out of the Tech Issue forum.
Uhhh... okay.

10.8 is officially coming out mid-next week anyway. I wouldn't try installing the professional workstation drivers on regular cards.


 

Posted

Question for Kelenar...

What Catalyst release were you using before you tried upgrading? I'm considering a "downgrade" to allay my annoyance until next week's 10.8.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinaki View Post
Question for Kelenar...

What Catalyst release were you using before you tried upgrading? I'm considering a "downgrade" to allay my annoyance until next week's 10.8.
All reports I've heard say that 10.5 is the best. (for games)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinaki View Post
Question for Kelenar...

What Catalyst release were you using before you tried upgrading? I'm considering a "downgrade" to allay my annoyance until next week's 10.8.
Before this, I was on 10.1.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

K, thanks both of you!


 

Posted

I just want to say I have a Mobility 5850 and am using 10.7 at the moment. In the UNiGiNE Heaven demo, my FPS goes like this, all settings equal: DX11 << OGL (4.0) < DX10

DX11 with tesselation runs fine, but OGL with tesselation locks up my system after only a couple frames (but there is SOME rendering at least). =/ I'm thinking my card may be affected by 10.7's OGL quirks.


 

Posted

Incidentally, for anybody else suffering this, turning FSAA off and turning shadow quality down a bit took my framerate from 10 to 50.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

Wow, I'll have to try this. Took many, many months off of CoH. Finally came back to wretched FPS performance. Been shaking my head. Crossfire doesn't work. Ah well. I know the game was still smooth as butter back when I used to play it. I cranked all my settings down, didn't help. AA went from crippling to killing my FPS rate.

This gives me hope that it's the 10.7 drivers (ATI) that are the source of the problem. Not sure if I want to roll back, or just wait for the 10.8s now. Thank you all, you've given me hope!
-Psilent